Instrument cluster voltage regulator

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RustyRatRod

RustyRatRod

I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday.
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So, WHERE IS the instrument cluster voltage regulator on a 64 Valiant? I JUST HAD the cluster out tonight replacing bulbs and cleaning it up. Not only is there no regulator in the cluster, but no place for it either.

I ask because I am getting a full tank of gas with only about 1/8 tank and the temp gauge goes all the way over to the H side like both are getting full voltage. This is with the car not running, so I know it is not over heating. Is the regulator in a different location other than plugged into the cluster?

Thank you drive through.
 
Aw rob man I'm disappointed. Thought you knew this. It's built into the fuel gauge, should have 3 terminals on the gauge. One terminal is power to the IVR, one terminal is the gauge sender, and the third is the IVR output which jumpers to the other gauges. The IVR feed to the fuel gauge is done internally
 
67Dart273 said:
Aw rob man I'm disappointed. Thought you knew this. It's built into the fuel gauge, should have 3 terminals on the gauge. One terminal is power to the IVR, one terminal is the gauge sender, and the third is the IVR output which jumpers to the other gauges. The IVR feed to the fuel gauge is done internally
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Hell no I don't know it. lol So, if it's effin up is the regulator serviceable or do I need to replace the whole damn gauge?
 
67Dart273 said:
If you are careful you can disable the internal one and jumper an external one to it

Here's one

Early A-body Instrument Regulators

mopar instrument regulator, fuel gauge - Google Search
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Thank you for that! That says if the gauges are dead, it will restore them to working order. If they are low, it might not make them work fully. But what about mine? Both my gauges max out when I turn on the ignition. Also, is all I have to do connect the wires to the back of the cluster as shown? I don't have to open the fuel gauge up?

Thanks Del. I really appreciate it.
 
I may try to repair it. My "guess" is that if it is causing the gas gauge and temp gauge to both peg, the voltage regulator would be stuck closed, right? So if I pry it apart and maybe file it down a little that might make it work again? It was working until last night. Then the gauges pegged.
 
The mechanical limiter has a bimetal beam that bows when a resistor winding around it heats up. If that winding has failed, beam doesn't bow to open contacts. thus filling the contacts accomplishes nothing.
You don't need to open the gauge. If you'll lift it from the housing you'll find a slither of metal on the back of it that provides a ground path for the limiter. Place a layer or 2 of electric tape over that piece of metal and re install the gauge. That internal limiter is rendered inop.
Mount any aftermarket solid state regulator ( about 30 bucks at ebay ) anywhere you want and route its wires to corresponding contacts at inst' panel.
We could add a little more about the wiring of a solid state regulator and adding a ground wire to the inst' panel but... the above is the jest of it.
 
RedFish said:
The mechanical limiter has a bimetal beam that bows when a resistor winding around it heats up. If that winding has failed, beam doesn't bow to open contacts. thus filling the contacts accomplishes nothing.
You don't need to open the gauge. If you'll lift it from the housing you'll find a slither of metal on the back of it that provides a ground path for the limiter. Place a layer or 2 of electric tape over that piece of metal and re install the gauge. That internal limiter is rendered inop.
Mount any aftermarket solid state regulator ( about 30 bucks at ebay ) anywhere you want and route its wires to corresponding contacts at inst' panel.
We could add a little more about the wiring of a solid state regulator and adding a ground wire to the inst' panel but... the above is the jest of it.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I did the solid state thing to my 65 but it had the plug in regulator. I'll get this one done to. Keep yall posted.
 
Now of course, "wouldn't you know" this is an intermittent thing. I pulled the car out today to clean the shop and immediately gas and temp gauge go to max. Then as I am turning the car around, they fall. Gas gauge to about 1/8 where I know it's correct and temp all the way down since it was just started. <rolls eyes>
 
Hey Rusty, start a wanted ad. Somebody here has a gauge for you.
 
Bet you got a bad ground for heating the bi metal contacts. Only heating intermittently.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Now of course, "wouldn't you know" this is an intermittent thing. I pulled the car out today to clean the shop and immediately gas and temp gauge go to max. Then as I am turning the car around, they fall. Gas gauge to about 1/8 where I know it's correct and temp all the way down since it was just started. <rolls eyes>
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Bad ground equals inop not over current to the gauges. High current, gaiuges going to max positions cannot be weak ground. It's limiter contacts sticking closed plain and simple.
Just so you know... You are flirting with disaster. System voltage will kill either the limiter or both gauges. Hopefully the limiter will go ahead and die first. It might cook the gauges ruining their calibration before it dies or it might fry them proper. Current always takes the path of least resistance and most of the time that's the fuel gauge. So... fuel gauge or in some cases oil gauge dies first, followed by temp gauge.
 
RedFish said:
Bad ground equals inop not over current to the gauges.
Just so you know... You are flirting with disaster. System voltage will kill either the limiter or both gauges. Hopefully the limiter will go ahead and die first. It might cook the gauges ruining their calibration before it dies or it might fry them proper. Current always takes the path of least resistance and most of the time that's the fuel gauge. So... fuel gauge or in some cases oil gauge dies first, followed by temp gauge.
Click to expand...

It has a light not an oil gauge. lol What could be causing it to over power the gauges? Not to worry because the cluster is coming back out tonight and not going back until it is fixed.
 
RedFish said:
Bad ground equals inop not over current to the gauges. High current, gaiuges going to max positions cannot be weak ground. It's limiter contacts sticking closed plain and simple.
Just so you know... You are flirting with disaster. System voltage will kill either the limiter or both gauges. Hopefully the limiter will go ahead and die first. It might cook the gauges ruining their calibration before it dies or it might fry them proper. Current always takes the path of least resistance and most of the time that's the fuel gauge. So... fuel gauge or in some cases oil gauge dies first, followed by temp gauge.
Click to expand...

That's what I assumed. I removed the cluster, removed the fuel gauge and the small copper strip in the center you described was corroded badly. Fuzzy green badly. I scraped if off with my pocketknife and polished it up with Brasso and reassembled. It works now. Although whether that was the problem or for how long it will work I don't know.
 
RustyRatRod said:
That's what I assumed. I removed the cluster, removed the fuel gauge and the small copper strip in the center you described was corroded badly. Fuzzy green badly. I scraped if off with my pocketknife and polished it up with Brasso and reassembled. It works now. Although whether that was the problem or for how long it will work I don't know.
Click to expand...

LOL You must have a memory problem. A nichrome resistor wire in a fuel sender is wound on a phenolic board and has no insulation.
In this application the nichrome resistor wire has a spiral wound multifiber fiberglass insulation that we can hardly see when its new. It is a pale goldish yellow color. Without it the wire shorts to the bimetal beam it's wound on. I have seen this insulation cooked to a black charcoal like. Touch it in a cleaning effort and it crumbles. I've noticed a ground black pepper like residue at the bottom of a gauge and knew right away what I would find when gauge is opened.
 
RedFish said:
LOL You must have a memory problem. A nichrome resistor wire in a fuel sender is wound on a phenolic board and has no insulation.
In this application the nichrome resistor wire has a spiral wound multifiber fiberglass insulation that we can hardly see when its new. It is a pale goldish yellow color. Without it the wire shorts to the bimetal beam it's wound on. I have seen this insulation cooked to a black charcoal like. Touch it in a cleaning effort and it crumbles. I've noticed a ground black pepper like residue at the bottom of a gauge and knew right away what I would find when gauge is opened.
Click to expand...
Ya what he said! ^^^^^^^^^ LOL
 
RedFish said:
LOL You must have a memory problem. A nichrome resistor wire in a fuel sender is wound on a phenolic board and has no insulation.
In this application the nichrome resistor wire has a spiral wound multifiber fiberglass insulation that we can hardly see when its new. It is a pale goldish yellow color. Without it the wire shorts to the bimetal beam it's wound on. I have seen this insulation cooked to a black charcoal like. Touch it in a cleaning effort and it crumbles. I've noticed a ground black pepper like residue at the bottom of a gauge and knew right away what I would find when gauge is opened.
Click to expand...

No, you don't know what I am talking about. In the center of that board on the back, there is a copper contact piece. It was corroded to the point that it didn't make contact at all or very little. That's the part I cleaned. It probably has had no affect, but since I had the fuel gauge out and it was dirty, I cleaned it. And there's nothing wrong with my memory at all. As ancient as it is, I know nothing about how electrical is put together. I do appreciate your knowledge, though,
 
barbee6043 said:
I have the DRS Disease ( don't remember ****) !!! ha

But when it comes to auto electronics, I never knew **** to begin with!!!!
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Exactly my point. If I knew half about electronics as people give me credit for, I would have this fixed by now.
 
RustyRatRod said:
No, you don't know what I am talking about. In the center of that board on the back, there is a copper contact piece. It was corroded to the point that it didn't make contact at all or very little. That's the part I cleaned. It probably has had no affect, but since I had the fuel gauge out and it was dirty, I cleaned it. And there's nothing wrong with my memory at all. As ancient as it is, I know nothing about how electrical is put together. I do appreciate your knowledge, though,
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I understand now and I apologize. I thought you had opened the gauge and went to cleaning in there. Most of the time a poor ground contact there causes gauges to go on and off with vibration or temperature change. Good luck with it.
 
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RedFish said:
I understand now and I apologize. I thought you had opened the gauge and went to cleaning in there. Most of the time a pore ground contact there causes gauges to go on and off with vibration or temperature change. Good luck with it.
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No problem. Without pictures, you didn't know what I was doin. Hell, I am here and I don't know what I am doin. lol Went out this morning before church and started it up and all is well. Just a little while ago and same result. Maybe it;s fixed. Maybe it's not. Either way, I don't know what the heck I did. lol I did get my tag light mounted. Of course the bulb that was in it is blown. lol
 
For my 1964 & 65, I disabled the internal Vreg (slipped heat shrink over arm) and installed an adjustable electronic one on the rear of the cluster. Search "voltage limiter" and "Plymouth" on ebay. I paid ~$30. I had to tweak the Vreg setting and add shunt resistors across the fuel gage to get both it and temperature to read correct, using simulator resistors.
 
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