Just another build thread - Sort my combo!

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RockOutWithYourBlockOut

RockOutWithYourBlockOut

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This'll be my first real performance build, so I'm gonna lean on all your experience a ton!

I have a low-compression 440 out of an RV that I'm building for my barracuda. I have a 727 with it, but it has the shortened tailshaft with the u-joint yolk instead of a normal slip joint. I'll have to sort that out, but I have the 904 to use if all else fails. The car's got a LSD ford 8.8 rear with 3.73s already in it. I dont have a dragstrip within 300 miles of me, so really my main hope is to have a great time at stoplights and car meets!

I have a set of KB pistons with a 2.067 compression height, should be good for 10.6:1 with the setup I'm planning on (or around 9.6:1 if i switch to 84cc heads or something), and I just ordered new bearings all around, arp rod bolts, otherwise stock rods/crank.

Edelbrock 750 carb (mechanical secondaries?)
Performer RPM manifold
E-street 75cc heads
COMP 1621-16 1.5 roller rockers
Hyd Flat tappet cam, need recommendations here. Looking at a few of COMP's XE cams

2500-3000 stall converter, waiting till i figure the cam out

try-y shorty headers, maybe some good TTI headers if you think i can work them in without cutting the fenders up? I hope to keep the power steering, but I'm not afraid to convert to manual if I need to.
 
RAT ROD AL said:
I don't believe the 904 will mate up to the 440.
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Oh I meant swapping internals and tailshaft housing. I've heard of people swapping internals and output shaft between the 727 and 904, but Im not sure if swapping the housing works too tbh. Im not actually sure if that'll swap over, anyone done this? They look identical, but...
 
The internals wont swap between the two trans. as far as i know every thing in the 727 is bigger. Now I don't know about the tail shaft and housing, but someone else can set you strait on it.
 
My life is a lie :eek:

oh well, the 727 was my first choice anyway. I'll just have to find a donor trans or maybe just trade someone for a 727 car trans
 
RAT ROD AL said:
I don't believe the 904 will mate up to the 440.
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Correct... I recommend VOETOM's book on torqueflites, this will tell you exactly what you need to do. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1613253354/?tag=joeychgo-20 Also, buy a torque converter from either Ultimate Converters or PTC, none of the generic off the shelf stuff offered by everyone else. This is oftentimes the make or break between an "Untouchable" or an "it's okay, but it feels like somethings missing" combination. Check out the Big block forum here, too. TTI does make some 440 specific A body headers, and at that power level, 1-3/4 tubes would work well, as would the Schumaker Tri-Ys. 10.6:1 with aluminum heads would be fine on 91-93 octane. The E Streets are rated at 1500-5500, and would work with this camshaft.
Voodoo Hydraulic Flat Tappet - Chrysler 361-440 268/276 - Lunati Power
Go with the performer RPM or a Holley street dominator intake and an Edelbrock 800 CFM AVS. If the budget allows it, a set of TFS 240 power port heads with this grind Voodoo Hydraulic Flat Tappet & Lifter Kit - Chrysler 361-440 Three Bolt 276/284 - Lunati Power
and MP single plane 440 intake would be very strong from 2500 to 6500. A competition ThermoQuad would work very well at this level. The good thing about the converter manufacturers I made mention of is you tell them your exact combination and goals and they build the converter based on your build, it's not just a generic guess based on diameter and stall speed.
 
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Garrett Ellison said:
Correct... I recommend VOETOM's book on torqueflites, this will tell you exactly what you need to do. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1613253354/?tag=joeychgo-20 Also, buy a torque converter from either Ultimate Converters or PTC, none of the generic off the shelf stuff offered by everyone else. This is oftentimes the make or break between an "Untouchable" or an "it's okay, but it feels like somethings missing" combination. Check out the Big block forum here, too. TTI does make some 440 specific A body headers, and at that power level, 1-3/4 tubes would work well, as would the Schumaker Tri-Ys. 10.6:1 with aluminum heads would be fine on 91-93 octane. The E Streets are rated at 1500-5500, and would work with this camshaft.
Voodoo Hydraulic Flat Tappet - Chrysler 361-440 268/276 - Lunati Power
Go with the performer RPM or a Holley street dominator intake and an Edelbrock 800 CFM AVS. If the budget allows it, a set of TFS 240 power port heads with this grind Voodoo Hydraulic Flat Tappet & Lifter Kit - Chrysler 361-440 Three Bolt 276/284 - Lunati Power
and MP single plane 440 intake would be very strong from 2500 to 6500. A competition ThermoQuad would work very well at this level. The good thing about the converter manufacturers I made mention of is you tell them your exact combination and goals and they build the converter based on your build, it's not just a generic guess based on diameter and stall speed.
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Overall sound advice... one other I would mention: I've run Coan Converters and recommended them to others, always turned out good. Very high quality and efficient.

The Edelbrock RPM will work just fine with either of those two camshafts and a 3.73 gear. Should be a good combo. I have run several single planes, I like the RPM better. With the aluminum heads 10.6 will work just fine. I would go with the bigger of the two cams Garrett mentions, but either would be a good choice... maybe stick to the smaller of the two if you run the Schumakers, tough call.

The Schumaker Tri-Y headers would be maxed out with the combo, but probably just fine, they can be run with factory style power steering box on an A-body. The TTI would give you just a slight horsepower advantage but more hassle plus you can not run a power steering box.

Used to run this combo: ported iron heads, small solid 243@0.050 0.549" lift, Coan 10" converter, Edlebrock RPM, Barry Grant 800+ cfm carb, 3.90 gears. No complaints... sounds good, hits hard, and streetable. Similar to the combo Garrett has put forth.
100_1541.JPG


Working on my next combo! ;)
DSC08492s.jpg
 
RockOutWithYourBlockOut said:
Oh I meant swapping internals and tailshaft housing. I've heard of people swapping internals and output shaft between the 727 and 904, but Im not sure if swapping the housing works too tbh. Im not actually sure if that'll swap over, anyone done this? They look identical, but...
Click to expand...

People have raced 904s behind big blocks, and they rebuild them. I thought they used adapter plates, but haven't done it so not sure. For what we are doing here not worth the effort unless you are going to buy the good race parts and you are trying to get a few more hundredths off your 60 ft time. You want hardcore call up A&A and give them your Visa card info. Home - A&A Transmissions For simple and reliable a 727 with a few basic mods will be just fine. Deep pan and a shift kit, maybe the fast ratio kick down lever. Spend your money on a good converter first.

OK... the JW ultra bell $$$; that is how they do it. Still pricey for a street cruiser.
 
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mosleyme said:
Overall sound advice... one other I would mention: I've run Coan Converters and recommended them to others, always turned out good. Very high quality and efficient.

The Edelbrock RPM will work just fine with either of those two camshafts and a 3.73 gear. Should be a good combo. I have run several single planes, I like the RPM better. With the aluminum heads 10.6 will work just fine. I would go with the bigger of the two cams Garrett mentions, but either would be a good choice... maybe stick to the smaller of the two if you run the Schumakers, tough call.

The Schumaker Tri-Y headers would be maxed out with the combo, but probably just fine, they can be run with factory style power steering box on an A-body. The TTI would give you just a slight horsepower advantage but more hassle plus you can not run a power steering box.

Used to run this combo: ported iron heads, small solid 243@0.050 0.549", Coan 10", Edlebrock RPM, Barry Grant 800+ cfm carb, 3.90 gears. No complaints... sounds good, hits hard, and streetable. Similar to the combo Garrett has put forth.
View attachment 1715300480

Working on my next combo! ;)
View attachment 1715300482
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Thanks for the approval, and I Love the Weiand six pack TR, you don’t see that everyday! Yes, the performer rpm would be a much better head choice than the e streets. I wouldn’t be too crazy about a combination that maxed out before 6000 in such a light car with 3.73 gears. I do like the broad rpm range of the performer rpm, and the engine would work better with one with the Tri-Y or even the TTI shorty headers with it. I like the minimum hassle with the Schumaker headers enough to stay toward the milder side of the build. Howard’s and Comp have camshafts in betwen those two but going with a better head and keeping the chamber volume around 75 ccs would work very well with the larger cam. I like the idea of some porting and valve work on a bare set of those e streets, but it’s likely to be cheaper to go with better heads to start with...
 
RockOutWithYourBlockOut said:
My life is a lie :eek:

oh well, the 727 was my first choice anyway. I'll just have to find a donor trans or maybe just trade someone for a 727 car trans
Click to expand...

Why? All you need to do is have a drive shaft shop make you a slip yoke for the front. Problem solved.
 
Thanks for all the info guys! For the E-Streets vs the Performer RPMs, would that be a better call here? I'd be more than willing to make the price difference if there's a noticeable performance advantage. The stats and reviews between the two were very similar.

RustyRatRod said:
Why? All you need to do is have a drive shaft shop make you a slip yoke for the front. Problem solved.
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Do you have more info on this? I've only done a bit of research online, havent talked to any local shops yet, but people seemed to say that you cant replace the yoke without replacing a lot of the internals? Or are you talking about getting a 2-piece truck driveshaft with a u-joint front yolk and then mounting the carrier somewhere
 
RockOutWithYourBlockOut said:
Thanks for all the info guys! For the E-Streets vs the Performer RPMs, would that be a better call here? I'd be more than willing to make the price difference if there's a noticeable performance advantage. The stats and reviews between the two were very similar.


Do you have more info on this? I've only done a bit of research online, havent talked to any local shops yet, but people seemed to say that you cant replace the yoke without replacing a lot of the internals? Or are you talking about getting a 2-piece truck driveshaft with a u-joint front yolk and then mounting the carrier somewhere
Click to expand...

You should have any head u buy checked, u might be surprised in what u find , edelbrock is no exception !!
Fully cnc`d would mean more than u know !!
 
That’s very true, none of rhe aftermarket aluminum heads are what I would call bolt on and go. It’s better to buy bare sets and get .001 o.s. stem valves and have a reputable shop do the guide and seat work. The concentricity and guide work on the mass produced stuff is usually pretty poor. It’s always best to go with as much cylinder head as you can afford to, within reason. Then if you want to reach for more power, it’s usually just a cam, gear, and converter change. The ez streets would be fine for this build, but a set of performer rpms would be a noticeable step up.
 
Garrett Ellison said:
That’s very true, none of rhe aftermarket aluminum heads are what I would call bolt on and go. It’s better to buy bare sets and get .001 o.s. stem valves and have a reputable shop do the guide and seat work. The concentricity and guide work on the mass produced stuff is usually pretty poor. It’s always best to go with as much cylinder head as you can afford to, within reason. Then if you want to reach for more power, it’s usually just a cam, gear, and converter change. The ez streets would be fine for this build, but a set of performer rpms would be a noticeable step up.
Click to expand...

From what I`ve read, the new trickflows are what they claim to be tho-----------------
 
AJ/FormS said:
In a street A-body, with 440 cubes, 10.6Scr, and 3.73s; I'm thinking any old convertor will do, and a small cam will make it a tire-fryer. Happy HotRodding
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Yeah, it doesn’t take a whole lot to make this a scary quick combination, and those trick flows are some of the best big block heads out there for the investment to power return.
 
Its been a while!

family/legal garbage really postponed this for a while

I got an amazing deal recently on some misc parts, and came with was an Offenhauser tunnel ram for a 440. base and top, all polished and lookin sexy, setup for dual quads. Practically given to me.

SO you can probably see where this is going... How stupid would it be to throw the tunnel ram on there with a couple 650 carbs or something?

I imagine this would impact low-end power, driveability would take a hit, should I think about a different cam grind?

I would absolutely love the look, and it might actually work out cheaper for me...

Can you just drop a tunnel ram and dual-quad setup on your average street build or are they more finnicky than that? (ignoring the added complexity of 2 carbs) Thoughts?
 
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I would like to hear if anyone has any experience with the Offy tunnel ram. I’ve seen reviews that haven’t been favorable towards the split plenum design. If it’s an open plenum I would think it’s pretty close to the Weiand and probably better than the Edelbrock STR-14 cross ram. Got any pics of what it looks like from the top inside of it? Offy carried adapters to convert their TR manifolds into individual runner manifolds. Each cylinder runner was tied to individual carburetor barrels with no plenum. I have yet to read anything positive about IR manifolds that used carburetors.
 
Seconded! itd be neat to hear from folks whove used em.

Heres pics of mine, excuse the mess. in the process of moving shop :rolleyes:

20200228_100147.jpg


20200228_100206.jpg


This one just seems to be split plenum and then individual runners. Theres a small gap below the plenum divider bove the base, hard to make out in the pics, (probably just to equalize pressure? Gap isnt big enough for too much airflow from left to right). Each side of the divider is open front to back.

20200228_100250.jpg

20200228_100225.jpg
 
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Garrett Ellison said:
I would like to hear if anyone has any experience with the Offy tunnel ram. I’ve seen reviews that haven’t been favorable towards the split plenum design. If it’s an open plenum I would think it’s pretty close to the Weiand and probably better than the Edelbrock STR-14 cross ram. Got any pics of what it looks like from the top inside of it? Offy carried adapters to convert their TR manifolds into individual runner manifolds. Each cylinder runner was tied to individual carburetor barrels with no plenum. I have yet to read anything positive about IR manifolds that used carburetors.
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re the ir manifolds and carbs, there are and have been many very strong engines using weber downdraft and sidedraft carbs. think for example cobra or gt40? and that's not to mention the 4 and 6 cylinder applications like rally cars etc.
neil.
 
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