starter check?

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j.d.duggan

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how to test the starter on the car?jumper cables,neg to starter body, ground. pos to bottom stud?Its on a 340,4 speed,no safty neutral switch.can hear a small click when turning key to start position.starter was working fine,yesterday sounded a little off,today no turning over.just thought ther might be a good way to check befor pulling.71 Plymouth scamp,can tou tell me how to jump relay?In layman terms?
 
You can't really check them with jumper cables as many don't provide enough current flow.......poor connections and too small wire, generally

The right way is a carbon pile load tester and a multimeter. Otherwise, Test it with a multimeter all hooked up "normal."

You can jumper the starter solenoid right at the starter......just bridge the small and the large terminal.

If it does not crank, "rig a meter from the engine block to the battery NEG post. Not the battery clamp, stab right into the battery post. jumper the solenoid and read the meter. More than a few tenths of 1 volt means the battery and or clamp connections are bad.

Same deal on the hot side. Clip your meter to the large post at the starter, stab the other probe into the top of the POS battery post. Crank and read. Same as above

If that tests OK and it won't crank, double check voltage by clipping your meter onto the engine block and the large starter stud. Crank and read. You should have an absolute minimum of 10V at the starter, more the better

To figure out how much current it is drawing, you need a carbon pile. Even after measuring amperage, you still don't know if the starter is drawing too much or the engine is attempting to seize. You have to use your head. if this is cold, and you can wrench the engine over 'as normal' then engine is likely not "tight"

Amperage draw depends on starter. There were at least two or three starter motor configurations "back then" and the newer pemanent magnet/ mini starters are quite different
 
Battery must be known good. I'm not sure about a '71, but my '73 has the starter relay on the left (driver) inner fender. Emergency brake on hard, car in neutral, key OFF, use a flat blade screwdriver to short the starter solenoid connection (bottom of relay, toward front, 1/4" screw with a U-shaped bracket to hold the eyelet) to the large stud. Starter will engage and crank if it works.

(post being written to OP before the 3rd post from 67Dart)
 
Before you can perform any electrical test on any vehicle, you must first verify that the battery if fully charged and test the battery first. If the battery tests good, then you can test the rest. Remove the battery before charging.
A n addition to the above post. Disconnect the coil wire and ground it. No accidental starts. It doesn't need to start to do a voltage and amp draw test on the starter. An article in this months Mopar Muscle has an article telling you how to do voltage test on a 67 Dart. This should answer all of your questions :

Fired Up: Battery Cable Upgrade on a 1967 Dodge Dart - Hot Rod Network
 
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Poor ground can cause that, check that the starter is tightly bolted to the bell housing, and all ground wires are also snug.
 
can hear a small click when turning key to start position.

The starter relay does that. You don't hear it when the starter works..and makes noise.

An aside: For working on ignition wiring..maybe chasing down start/run ballast resistor problems, remove the 1/4" screw that holds the starter solenoid wire onto the relay. Be careful...it's close to that big stud that's hot. Touch the two and the starter fires. Again, the reason for the safeguards: Car in neutral, E brake on, coil grounded....all that kind'a stuff. With the starter 'go' wire disconnected, you can meter any start/run IG1/IG2 wiring issues you might have and leave the starter out of it.

Aside #2: Don't leave the key 'on' for a long period of time. That's not a normal situation for the car to, say, have the coil sinking power constantly. Things get hot and can get damaged.
 
Some'thin else I forgot. The original Mopar starter cable lashup where the big cable and solenoid cable were molded into that dual eyelet was subject to BREAKAGE INTERNALLY due to engine vibration. ALWAYS suspect a cable / terminal connection.
 
What I have is a test light...…..needed to see some of the simple test I could do on my own, like the one that canyncarvr layed out.I'll test the starter like post 9 called for,this should show if starter is good or not.At least a good starting point.thanks again.:thankyou:
 
moparLeo,could you tell me why I would remove the batt. for charging?I,ve been working on these old things for a lot of years,never pulled batt. to charge.just pull the ground cable off batt. and put charger on.allways ready to learn something new,please alliterate:steering:.
 
moparLeo,could you tell me why I would remove the batt. for charging?I,ve been working on these old things for a lot of years,never pulled batt. to charge.just pull the ground cable off batt. and put charger on.allways ready to learn something new,please alliterate:steering:.
Theres a couple reasons,the gases it emits while charging is corrosive,and if exposed to an arc,can cause explosion.
Moreso if battery is bad.
Been there done that. Charger must be off or unplugged when connecting or disconnecting to battery. Safety first.
 
I do,always hook charger up while unplugged,then plug in charger,no spark.removed all ground cables this morning and cleaned well,scraped all paint from engine heads and ground mounting surfaces,checked cables and ground wiring.still no crank.jumped starter relay,starter engaged.will get new relay today and see if that does the trick.I would at least think this showed me starter is good,correct? ether starter relay,or wiring from ign.switch to relay.correct?again thanks for helping me out with this stuff.:drama:
 
moparLeo,could you tell me why I would remove the batt. for charging?I,ve been working on these old things for a lot of years,never pulled batt. to charge.just pull the ground cable off batt. and put charger on.allways ready to learn something new,please alliterate:steering:.
You've been lucky. Luck does run out sometimes.
I never will forget these 2 examples... I worked for a tire/auto service store. The normal was to leave a customers battery on charger overnight and load test it next morning. Some would come in with battery in hand. Our charge and test might sell a battery.
We came in one morning to find battery acid all over the concrete floor. Out to the grocery store for several boxes of baking soda. Nice clean spot in the floor though. No more leaving the charger running overnight.
Then the 87or8 Thunderbird that came into the Ford store I worked at. A charger had boiled its battery. Looked like maybe they set the charger up on the engine using it for a hood prop. Battery tray and below, underside of hood, everything else in that general area was ate up bad!
 
What I have is a test light...…..needed to see some of the simple test I could do on my own, like the one that canyncarvr layed out.I'll test the starter like post 9 called for,this should show if starter is good or not.At least a good starting point.thanks again.

Not to confuse the issue for you, but post#9 had mostly to do with ignition wiring, not starter wiring.

If you have a no-crank problem, you aren't to a place you have to worry about start/run wiring ignition-wise.

As noted, those comments were 'asides', something that may be useful to you in the future when dealing with the starter relay.

From what you have said so far: Relay clicks when key turned to 'start' but no starter, starter does engage when relay is manually activated, the relay is a reasonable choice.

One assumption: The click you hear is a single, hard 'click'..not a flutter on/off...and when when the key is released, you hear the relay click 'off'.

You could measure a solid 12.6V+ with a meter on the battery and the battery still be bad when the starter tries to run. That is less likely if a screwdriver on the starter relay runs the starter fine. Manually forcing the relay is not quite the same current issue as using the key as the key energizes other 'stuff'.

It is also possible that your mini is wired differently from the original starter. I have not dealt with a mini starter, so can't tell you how they are wired. The OEM Mopar starter switches the hi-current INside the starter IIRC. Most other starters have TWO leads, one for the solenoid, one for the starter motor. The 'manual' method you used to engage the starter bypassed the starter solenoid if you have a separate solenoid wire.

THAT says the solenoid on the starter is bad.

In that case, your manual 'test' did not engage the starter, but just spun it without engaging it to the flywheel.

I bring that up only to cover the possibility that your use of 'engage' means something different to you than it does to me. We could be talking about the 'same' thing word-wise and actually be each thinking something completely different.
 
did turn engine,engage,for one second.but get your point on the spin and engage diff. for some who might not get the difference.know more later today.
 
yes.relay fixed it.still don't like the way the starter sounds when crankink.tryed adjusting but still sounds like not meshing up right with flywheel,any thoughts?
 
still sounds like not meshing up right with flywheel,any thoughts?

If that's a concern, check it like you would a hypoid setup. Put some marking fluid on the flywheel/starter, pull the coil wire, crank it for a bit, check the pattern.

Pretty easy to do that on a manual trans car; you have an inspection cover built in for the purpose!

If you can separate the solenoid action from the starter drive running (wiring maybe), you could do that too. Just look at how the bendix engages when it engages. No pattern marked in that case.

Cranking the motor while the car is on jacks isn't a good choice if you are underneath it at the time. A pit setup would work better than jacks.

Re: Don't like the sound...

It changed?
 
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