Dog training question.

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Dartthunder340

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About a month ago we adopted a 1 year old lab/heeler mix from the pound. Fantastic dog with the kids and wonderful addition to our family. She has a really high prey drive and will give chase to any animal that runs away. Particularly squirrels and rabbits. In the backyard I’m not so worried.

I take her for walks regularly and began leash training right away. She does really well with commands and I even work with her off leash, providing I see there are no immediate distractions. My question is: has a shock collar worked for you in the past? We have never owned a dog this quick before (all golden retrievers before) and I could call our last dogs off and they would return under command with no hesitation. Thoughts?
 
Yes but you need to shock ‘correctly’ and not rely on the collar to do the training. Richard Wolter wrote an excellent series of training books.
 
My question is: has a shock collar worked for you in the past?

Probably a good place to start. As you know I adopted the Malinois and he has a very aggressive prey drive (still working on it, lol) he does pay attention to the collar.

I would suggest a Mini Educator with tone, vibrate and shock.

When using the shock, set it as low as possible to the point the dog reacts. My Mal will respond to a 5-7 (out of 100) on the shock when training. When you go for walks you may need to pump it up to 30-35 maybe more depending on attitude to dissuade her from overriding your voice commands.

When you train, train her on the "leave it" command for anything you want her to, well, leave alone, lol. Once the dog learns that command you should be able to command "leave it" and she should do just that.

Do a search on YouTube for Larry Krohn videos, he does a fantastic job of explaining different commands and how to incorporate the collar into training. He gets some amazing results.
 
About a month ago we adopted a 1 year old lab/heeler mix from the pound. Fantastic dog with the kids and wonderful addition to our family. She has a really high prey drive and will give chase to any animal that runs away. Particularly squirrels and rabbits. In the backyard I’m not so worried.

I take her for walks regularly and began leash training right away. She does really well with commands and I even work with her off leash, providing I see there are no immediate distractions. My question is: has a shock collar worked for you in the past? We have never owned a dog this quick before (all golden retrievers before) and I could call our last dogs off and they would return under command with no hesitation. Thoughts?
So to be clear I am NOT a professional dog trainer by any stretch. I will just tell you how I did it. I was raised with Heelers, labs etc. all farm work dogs. I now have a rescued German Shepard. I had never seen anything like the explosion of prey drive she exhibits. Let's just say I was ill prepared! I have been exposed to a lot of guys training with shock collars with mixed results. Not my choice personally. So what I did was get several wraps of leash around hand to create a short leash if you will, put a handful of treats in my pocket and took her to a local park that is just thick with fearless people accustomed squirrels. I would then allow the short leash to become slack and give her the lead to explore. At each squirrel I would get her to hold, and sometimes not. The short leash allowed me to control the 0-60 she can do in nano seconds. After awhile she got to where the treat had more value than the squirrel. Once the squirrel was treed I would release her every now and then to sniff the tree and be her bada** German Shepard self totally not impressing the squirrel. After a few trips to the squirrel park I got the prey drive controlled. But I have to say I have got to be paying attention and do my part. Not satisfied you could ever totally break it.
 
Mals are good dogs, they love to work. When we take them on target, they get so amped up and ready to go, they will often nip us in the thighs and ***, basically like football players knocking heads, they are just ready to roll!!
 
they will often nip us in the thighs and ***


Oh yeah, I get the nips big time and the teeth clacking, mine nips at the heel of my hand when I grab the leash to go on a road trip. It's funny as hell when he gets excited.
 
Yes but you need to shock ‘correctly’ and not rely on the collar to do the training.

Yes, exactly. I'll have to look up that Wolter dude.

That's why I suggested Larry Krohn, his YT videos are free and very informative on the use of a collar. He trains two ways one involves treats and then he does the same thing without treats and uses the collar as a reminder of sorts. If the dog does what he wants immediately...no shock, if the dog pauses he bumps the collar only until the dog gets back on track and he stops. He rarely uses a long shock bump.
 
We had a rock plant operator we wanted to use a shock collar on, but management scoffed at the idea. "We don't have the budget for all the batteries it will take to train him." :rofl:
 
We got our Blue Heeler "Cooper" as a 8 week old pup, the commands "NO", "COME" & "STAY" (I always say his name first then the command) took a little time over the first few months or so we had him, but he seemed to pick it up rather quickly especially after he warmed up to us. His one fault was if someone was walking a dog on the street he would leave the yard thinking it was play time. Now he knows his yard boundaries and admittedly I pay more attention to the street activity when out in the yard and the dog is loose, when I see a dog walker coming the instant he sees and starts to run towards it I give the "NO" command and he stops dead in his tracks, then the "COME" command and he returns to me, and believe it or not I didn't reward him for learning things other than a good petting and telling him he was a good boy, the treats come when we're back in the house .

He sits and lays down when I tell him, if I hold out my left or right hand when he is sitting he gives me a paw for a handshake he barks when I tell him to "speak".

Oh, and NO shock collar has ever been on this dog.
 
I use a shock coller fence and correction coller. With the fence coller he only shocked himself once and it was completely my fault. I trained him with the tone mode. And he would hear the tone and stop. Well I had him where I could take his collar off and he would follow me to the shop or wherever. Well one day I had my hands full and forgot to remove his collar and he just followed me. I heard him start waleing I felt so bad about it. To this day he won't follow me to the shop I have to carry him lol
 
I use a Garmin Tritronics Pro 550 with my pups which might be overkill for an around the house training system. There are other options pro odds by Garmin that might be a better fit, but either way I'd stick with Garmin, as their customer service is top notch.

Can't tell you how many people ask me "you use a shock collar them?!", so be ready for questions and the occasional "Hey that's not right!" comments...

My dogs are fully trained and finished gundogs that respond to the "tone" feature 99% of the time. Very rarely do I have to correct them with the collar, and if I do, it's at a low setting that quickly gets their attention without a yelp or cry.

E-collars, when introduced correctly to your dog and utilized as a training tool rather than a "fear" tool, can do wonders. My dogs are highly-driven German Shorthairs, yet they listen and mind better than most people's kids. A lot of that has to do with the e-collar.

Remember, it's an e-collar (electronic collar), not a "shock collar", as its only purpose isn't to just "shock" the dog...
 
I've had 3 Shar-pei and due to the skin wrinkles a shock collar is useless and has no effect what so ever. not even a flinch, so I learned the basic method. A lead is all you need, whenever you take her out have the lead on and be ready. Watch closely and focus on her, watch the ears, nose and head and as soon as she perks up give the lead a snap and command. I use "leave it" this command is used for many scenarios. Start with food control, the number 1 priority for a dog. You own the food until its surrendered to her, put food down if she goes for it "leave it" and step in immediately. This action/reaction is carried outside to the field training, you OWN everything until given to her. OWN the squirrels and birds, it she triggers snap the lead and "leave it" She will figure this out very quickly. After she has acknowledges you, signal to her to GO and chase. This gives you control. You own everything until given! Smart dogs want an Alpha owner.
 
I have found that a choke chain works wonders.
The only time I've used shock is for my tiny dachshund that's too little for a choke collar, and that was only for a fence. In NC the soil is so sandy, she could literally swim through it right under the fence in about 10sec, to go out and get pets from all the neighborhood kids that pass by..
 
We use a collar on our pits. It’s not a “shock” collar though. It’s like that stimulating thing a human would use on a muscle. We took our dogs to a training program that trains police K-9’s and that’s all they use. Like stated though you actually need to be trained how to use the collar and down the road they won’t need the collar. As soon as that collar goes on they know heal, off, break, sit, down etc. etc.... then know when I stop walking that they are to sit right next to me on my left in heal position. its amazing. If I remember when I get home I’ll find what collars they are.

Make sure you train them to always be on your left or right. It keeps things consistent. If I step first with my left foot it means we are going and the dog is to walk with me on my left in heal position. If I step first with my right foot they know they are to stay. If I stay consistent with trading they are pretty damn good with it. My older one completed the good canine citizen class and passed.
 
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Here ya go it’s called an E collar.

There’s a bunch of different brands. This looks a lot like one of ours. Don’t remember the brands we have. Won’t be home for a few hours to look.

Educator ET-300 Mini 1/2 Mile E-Collar Remote Dog Training Collar With Vibration, Tapping Sensation and Pavlovian Stimulation https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007RBDUTS/?tag=joeychgo-20




.
 
Here's Larry with his dogs on the "leave it" command.




We use the “off” command. But yea it’s constant re enforcement.


We tell ours to place and they go right to the floor mat by our front door and sit there. All sad looking but they go there. Lol


.
 
My one-year-old female Border Collie wanted to herd/chase the horses. Was trying a shock collar for a short time, but she died suddenly one day we left home for a few hours shopping. So my experience with the collar very limited.

Our two-year old female Doberman can't resist chasing cats, chickens, kids. On leash, under quiet conditions, she will stop walking automatically as soon as I stop walking without any command at all. She will also stop with the verbal command "Stop" under the same conditions.

However, in the presence of a cat or any moving thing (child, animal, ball) she has to run after it and completely ignores any of my vocal commands. After training on leash with the average common-place leather collar for six months now, it appears she might just be starting to resist darting after things. Maybe after a couple of more years, or, at this rate, maybe never will she behave calmly.

I will keep trying my slow, patient way/method as a kind of experiment to find out if it is even possible to calm her down completely to the point of trusting her off leash! For some reason, I just don't want to resort to the shock collar with this animal.
 
Here ya go it’s called an E collar.

There’s a bunch of different brands. This looks a lot like one of ours. Don’t remember the brands we have. Won’t be home for a few hours to look.

Educator ET-300 Mini 1/2 Mile E-Collar Remote Dog Training Collar With Vibration, Tapping Sensation and Pavlovian Stimulation https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007RBDUTS/?tag=joeychgo-20.


That's the one, great tool.
 
I have a 70 pound mixed breed dog ( looks like Shepherd/Lab/Doberman cross; handsome sob) that I let run about 3 miles every morning, at between 15 to 25 mph; his natural speed being about 20, but he can hit 30. After this he's gets breakfast and lays down,all pooped out.I know his schedule because we created it by timed feedings. Sometimes I don't see him until supper time, and sometimes we'll go out for an evening walk. This is our first dog. My wife named him Georgie, but I call him Mr.Mellow.In town, he's everybody's favorite dog, and he likes their affection too.
He knows about 13 commands, and responds properly to about 13 other communications. He listens very well,and also knows by my tone of voice if it is a command or a request. Commands are always preceded by his name, and are enforced; but to requests, I use no name,and he is free to respond in any way. And lots of times he says no thanks.
And believe it or not, he knows the difference between STAY, and WAIT. Stay is hold your position. Wait is; hang around here until I return; you can SIT, STAY, LIE DOWN,HOLD STILL, whatever; just be here when I get back. So, I more or less don't use STAY anymore.
We got him as a 3year-old chicken-killing escape-artist, from a shelter, going on 3 years ago. They kept him inside because he was known to climb up out of the 8-ft chain-link fence of his outdoor enclosure. In the last year, I can't recall leashing him more than a couple of times, and only as show to others, that supposedly I'm in charge.
I claim everything in town, and he won't even pee on any neighbors lawn, much less ours. By claiming everything, he knows he can't touch it. Don't ask me how he figured that out. For Georgie; claiming was simply standing between him and the thing he wanted, no talking. Then advancing on him until he sat down. Surrender/understanding was observed when he either yawned or lay down on his side, all four legs out in sleep mode.
And, of course, we have play times, and grooming times, and bathtimes; the last of which he is not fond of, but he is obedient.. I am starting to understand some of his body language. After 2.5 years I suppose it's about time,lol.

My only advice is ; Exercise, discipline, then affection. I use no treats, never have. The affection and grooming are the treats. A tired dog is a happy, obedient dog.
That's the best I got, and don't know if it works on all dogs.

Oh and mostly no talking. Dogs do not understand much language other than body language and their understood commands; talking only excites them, mostly in a negative way. This I know works on every dog I have had the occasion to get to know; dozens since we got this dog.That, and don't approach straight-on; be polite, doggie-polite. Come close alongside,stand sideways,then wait; let them come to you. After all, in their world, you are a GIANT. And one more; the smaller the dog the sooner the bite; never trust the sobs. If it's yapping, the teeth are already warmed up.
 
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ok here are the two collar systems we use


this is the one we got first and i actually prefer out of the two
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L95P17K/?tag=joeychgo-20


this is the one we bought with our second pittie. th etraining place switched to these because of better customer service they said. i prefer the first one o posted though.. not sure what i don't like about this one. maybe the shape of the controller. they both work well though..
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0190P0NG6/?tag=joeychgo-20
 
My question is: has a shock collar worked for you in the past?


OK, I finally found the video I had in mind, he explains how to use the E collar properly.

You absolutely can't and don't want to just throw the collar on and expect the dog to know what you're asking of it.

First step is to train the dog to the collar...if that makes sense. Once the dog knows what language you are speaking then you can use the collar to actually stop an unwanted behavior you don't want the dog doing ie; chasing other critters.

With enough training the dog will actually learn that she isn't to give chase to cats, squirrels, anything that her prey drive is coaxing her to chase, if done properly you won't even have to give her a command, she should just NOT do it, because she has learned that she isn't supposed to. She may learn quickly, she may take a bit. Zeus, my Mal will chase a squirrel straight up a tree, and I mean the squirrel and he will actually run up the tree.

EDIT: One other thing I will suggest is IF you decide to go to an E collar, when you get it home take it out charge it up and before you put it on your dog, put it on your own neck and hit yourself on a few different settings so that you understand what the animal is dealing with. It will instill in your mind not to be too button happy. And I am serious, I did it myself before I ever put it on Zeus. You will see in some of his vids that he does it to himself, and he asks the same of people that come to him to get help in training their dogs.

Larry explains everything pretty well in the vid.

 
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