Removing the old paint “edges”

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Ronald C.

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How in the world do you get rid of the edges of the original base coat/paint???

I’m assuming if you can see “it” in the primer coat, you can see the same in the base coat, right?

I have sanded through the stages/grits (80-100-220-400-1000-3000) as I understand them, but while it worked in some areas, not so much in others. All I seem to be doing is moving the edge further back and never fully removing that stupid edge.

I am no where near a body guy, but I can’t seem to justify the cost of someone else doing it. I’m getting closer to justifying no doubt, but not there yet. There’s not a lot of “body work”, it’s more paint work. That said I didn’t see the point in media blasting the whole car. So I thought, work the edges, smooth them out,...... prime, sand, prime, sand and paint.....

Regardless, any pointers on smoothing the edges is appreciated.

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What are you sanding with? Need to use a block. Durablocks are awesome for this. Can fill some by building primer or use glaze. I'm no bodyman, but yes that would look awful...
 
zkx14 said:
What are you sanding with? Need to use a block. Durablocks are awesome for this. Can fill some by building primer or use glaze. I'm no bodyman, but yes that would look awful...
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Those 'edges' should have been gone by 220 grit. Should see something like tis as you go through the
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layers.
 
zkx14 said:
Those 'edges' should have been gone by 220 grit
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Using? ........not a block. Just by hand focused on the edges.

The one photo is really the extreme. Most of the small areas I have been successful in fading. But honestly, there has to be a better, more efficient way to blend the edges out without using a thin layer of body filler.....
 
Looks like the primer you are using is lifting the paint some, sometimes the only way with old enamel paint is to just strip it all and start out fresh.
 
dibbons said:
Applying simple physics to sanding means edges will only go away by "leveling"-filling in or grinding down.
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Pardon the ignorance, but I didn’t know anything about the blocks. Im sure I seen them in videos but just didn’t snap to their role. Now I’m thinking the dura block approach may make small work of this.

The Eastwood video too looks like using the combination of durablock and body filler may help things. I have been very conservative on the body filler to avoid a “Bondo” car. But maybe part of my issue is being to conservative with it. Think I might order a couple of them blocks and take another stab at it......
 
correct amount of very minimal filler is the correct way to to do these cars.
 
If your fingers are doing the sanding, its going to continue.
Block it with some 80 grit. Reprime and block your way up to 320/400 wet sanding.400 or 600 is all you need for paint.
 
Tooljunkie said:
If your fingers are doing the sanding, its going to continue.
Block it with some 80 grit. Reprime and block your way up to 320/400 wet sanding.400 or 600 is all you need for paint.
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If I’m following, the normal process to have more than one coat of primer? I thought (keeping in mind I don’t know) you surface prepped and then primed/painted...

How much profile is needed for paint to adhere? Can you get the primer finish to smooth?
 
Im a body man and first rule is dont hand or finger sand unless u know what your doing. Blocking is the best way. Primer likes to stick the best around 180 to 320 grit. 2 or 3 light to medium coats allowing flash time in between
 
And base clear will make it look wayyyy worse than primer. A good tip is after primer dries take a wet rag or a rag with a prep solvent and it will shine like clear. U will see the flaws then
 
Ronald C. said:
If I’m following, the normal process to have more than one coat of primer? I thought (keeping in mind I don’t know) you surface prepped and then primed/painted...

How much profile is needed for paint to adhere? Can you get the primer finish to smooth?
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Although I admire your desire to do this yourself, I think you need to learn a LOT before you proceed. I base this off of your quoted question and what you have said. There are LOTS of videos available on how to paint your own car.
Let me just say that surface prep is absolutely essential. The following is what I did. There are other ways to do it, but there are no shortcuts.
When I painted my 69 Barracuda, I stripped the body down to bare metal. Then I sprayed epoxy primer on it all. Then I did the bondo work, then I sprayed on 3 coats of high build polyester primer, then I applied guide coat, then I block sanded with Dura Blocks using 220 and 320 until most of the primer was gone and the bad spots were revealed. The darker guide coat will still be in any low place, so you can easily see where you need to do more work. Then I filled all those low/uneven places with high quality spot putty and blocked with 180, 220 and 320. Then I sprayed on 3 coats of high build polyester primer again, applied guide coat and blocked with 220 and 320 until all flaws had disappeared. Then I blocked with 400 grit dry, then 320 wet followed by 400 and 600 wet. Then I painted. I spent at least 80 - 100 hours priming and block sanding my car. There are no shortcuts. You CAN paint over existing paint (although I would not do it). You need to block the old paint with 80, 120, 220 and 320 to get rid of the problems you are talking about and then apply 2 or 3 coats (I'd go with 3) of I high build polyester primer then block it as mentioned above. Failure to spend an appropriate amount of tome on prep will absolutely show up in the final result.
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Each layer of film should be feathered to one inch and primered in steps to fill in those layers. It's called feather and fill. It looks pretty deep.
 
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harrisonm said:
Although I admire your desire to do this yourself, I think you need to learn a LOT before you proceed. I base this off of your quoted question and what you have said. There are LOTS of videos available on how to paint your own car.
Let me just say that surface prep is absolutely essential. The following is what I did. There are other ways to do it, but there are no shortcuts.
When I painted my 69 Barracuda, I stripped the body down to bare metal. Then I sprayed epoxy primer on it all. Then I did the bondo work, then I sprayed on 3 coats of high build polyester primer, then I applied guide coat, then I block sanded with Dura Blocks using 220 and 320 until most of the primer was gone and the bad spots were revealed. The darker guide coat will still be in any low place, so you can easily see where you need to do more work. Then I filled all those low/uneven places with high quality spot putty and blocked with 180, 220 and 320. Then I sprayed on 3 coats of high build polyester primer again, applied guide coat and blocked with 220 and 320 until all flaws had disappeared. Then I blocked with 400 grit dry, then 320 wet followed by 400 and 600 wet. Then I painted. I spent at least 80 - 100 hours priming and block sanding my car. There are no shortcuts. You CAN paint over existing paint (although I would not do it). You need to block the old paint with 80, 120, 220 and 320 to get rid of the problems you are talking about and then apply 2 or 3 coats (I'd go with 3) of I high build polyester primer then block it as mentioned above. Failure to spend an appropriate amount of tome on prep will absolutely show up in the final result. View attachment 1715311614 View attachment 1715311615 View attachment 1715311616
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that's what I hope my '67 looks like. beautiful, love the color! I want to use the '69 stripe, but I'd like my stripe to be in red. what is the green color code you used?
 
harrisonm said:
Although I admire your desire to do this yourself, I think you need to learn a LOT before you proceed. I base this off of your quoted question and what you have said. There are LOTS of videos available on how to paint your own car.
Let me just say that surface prep is absolutely essential. The following is what I did. There are other ways to do it, but there are no shortcuts.
When I painted my 69 Barracuda, I stripped the body down to bare metal. Then I sprayed epoxy primer on it all. Then I did the bondo work, then I sprayed on 3 coats of high build polyester primer, then I applied guide coat, then I block sanded with Dura Blocks using 220 and 320 until most of the primer was gone and the bad spots were revealed. The darker guide coat will still be in any low place, so you can easily see where you need to do more work. Then I filled all those low/uneven places with high quality spot putty and blocked with 180, 220 and 320. Then I sprayed on 3 coats of high build polyester primer again, applied guide coat and blocked with 220 and 320 until all flaws had disappeared. Then I blocked with 400 grit dry, then 320 wet followed by 400 and 600 wet. Then I painted. I spent at least 80 - 100 hours priming and block sanding my car. There are no shortcuts. You CAN paint over existing paint (although I would not do it). You need to block the old paint with 80, 120, 220 and 320 to get rid of the problems you are talking about and then apply 2 or 3 coats (I'd go with 3) of I high build polyester primer then block it as mentioned above. Failure to spend an appropriate amount of tome on prep will absolutely show up in the final result. View attachment 1715311614 View attachment 1715311615 View attachment 1715311616
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Harrisonm,

1st and foremost, let me say this, that Cuda is amazing sir. Very nice and well done. Kudos.

As far as my sport, I have been back and forth on doing it myself vs. someone else. Honestly, I have decided if I dont like the final product, well no harm no foul as I can then pay someone else to do it. But truthfully, I dont think I will have any problems as I move through it. Going to just prep one area at a time and let it go where it goes. If it goes bad, I may be out TONS of labor, and maybe some cash, but its a good experience and I need to figure it out sometime or always pay others, right? I will say, what I have done is FAR better than it was when I started. And I really believe that I was so adamant about not using loads of body filler that I was hindering my own success. How many time have we seen cars that literally had a mound of Bondo on it? But sounds like there is a difference in the intended use and what I was envisioning.

There are other areas on the car that have turned out flawless! The deck between the hood and lower windshield is spot on perfect. I was successful in removing all the chipped/bad (just bad bad bad) paint around the wiper gears, etc., the entire area, and I mean it is now prepped and primed and 100% baby *** smooth. I think the top is more challenging because it was originally a vinyl top car, the top was in really bad shape, and again, I was approaching it as "just sand out the edges" tactic, using MINIMAL body filler.

So, I think I will order the blocks, and just stay at it. The one thing I am supremely confident in is I am not hurting anything. The more I work on it, the better this thing gets. As I am sure all can appreciate, its a labor of love, and has become a matter of principal now more than ever.

Here are a couple pictures of the areas I mentioned above. The original pic I put up that looks so bad is on the passenger side between side glass and rear window. You can see the before here in one of the side profile pics.

I really appreciate all the insight and suggestions. Please feel free to keep sharing!

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Ronald C. said:
Its deep for sure. Not as bad as it was, but yep, its deep!
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Feather till you think its perfect. Then spray a 'guide coat' on and lightly block sand. First pass over will remove guide color from high spots if any still exist. If you are close, the guide should clean off evenly. Most likely you will be left with some low areas that the guide remains in. Depending on depth and what is around them, you may be able to continue sanding down till it disappears. Just don't dig in to get it cleaned off stay flat with the block. If its a ding, you may need a dab of glaze, if only slight, a couple coats of primer may build the low area. On my hood above, the dark areas are black primer used as guide
where I am spot checking. Then when I thought I had it good sprayed entire hood and sanded again. Rinse and repeat....
Keep at it. There's a lot of satisfaction in doing it yourself!​
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Don’t worry about the amount of Bondow/fillers you use or high build primer’s for that matter.
The last time I did a very “High End” paint job, ($94k, too bad it was a Camaro...) the car was completely coated every panel top to bottom with a heavy layer of mud/polyester that was then sanded until all panels met perfectly and were flat as glass.

You are not taking a lot of it off. All of those $250k - $1M builds are Bondo buckets! (I’m joking of course but in a way it is true, It’s sculpting artwork, not bodywork at that level)

The prep on what is underneath all of the material should be the number one thing in any well done and lasting job.

It’s what’s underneath that counts!!!

Maybe you should find a Body man that could steer you in the right direction. Having the car stripped is an extra expense but may help all of your labors pay off in the years to come.
Good luck!
 
FABO,

quick update and question. So I have been focusing on the engine bay and getting it prepped for paint. Sanded it and primed but, was told any of the areas that I used rattle can primer would more less not bond with paint sprayed with a gun. In short form, the paint would lift. So, I went back to the paint MFG (Nason) again and conferred, and of course they said “yup, that is true!”. With that, I scuffed the entire engine bay, ordered the correct primer, and set up to shoot it. I grew concerned the cowl between windshield and bulkhead may not match if shot separate so I went ahead and (re-) primed entire engine bay and on up/around the windshield. Next, light sand of the primer and off to the races with the paint. Ya know what? I’m impressed. Looks pretty damn good. Little buffing and this thing will shine like a diamond.

Called Nason back earlier today to ask for “OEM” level advice on buffing/wet sanding/etc. only to be told..... umm hmm, here it comes...
“Oh, you can’t polish that. It will just buff off. Thats not at all the paint you should have used.” Umm, are you F-ing kidding me? They didn’t think to mention that one of the other 5 times we discussed surface prep, or primer suitable for the paint I ALREADY HAD? The advice was, because it is a industrial machine type paint and apparently nothing @#$& adheres to it either, I will need to take it back down to the primer, if I use their system that is. Any other MFG and (according to them) I will need to go down to the metal.

So, my question, because I have ZERO confidence now in what they suggest, what paint is going to provide as near as a OEM finish and not cost me $150 a pint? Or, tough ****, it’s just going to cost $150 a pint? Not trying to be a tight ***, but it needs to look good and last, not win global recognition for paint quality.

Furthermore, what is the safest way, and product to use for blasting the primer and paint off with OUT warping or damaging the surface?

I don’t mind doing the work, but quite frankly, at what point do you get straight answers from OEM’s without up selling or “you have to use our product start to finish or else” pitch? I just want to do it, again now, one time and it last more than 18 months like I was told today.

Thoughts anyone?

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Most of what you are saying is why I was suggesting finding a good body shop and or bodyman/painter that actually has experience in collision and or restoration.
Can you post a picture of the can of paint you used to paint the engine bay? It would help to know what you are using.
I have been using PPG Omni single stage MAE Acrylic Enamel to do under the hood/doorjambs/trunk of the 74 Dart Sport I am working on so that it would have a somewhat factory look to it as the rest of the car is original paint. No sanding or buffing. Plus if your not happy with the shine level, you can color sand it and clear it.
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I stick with products I know and don’t really mix manufacturers when it comes to solvent/primer/paint. And if you do have something unknown you are trying to just go back over with little prep (it’s not advised) seal the areas with a really good primer sealer.
One more thing, stop where the cowl meets the upper plenum on the firewall.
The cowl should always be sprayed/cleared with the rest of the body so that the color matches.
When doing something like your car I like to paint the jambs/under hood/trunk then hang and mask off all of the fresh painted areas and shoot the outside of the car as one.
Single stage or base/clear it will all be even this way.
If you do decide to paint everything on stands then I would do the cowl and engine compartment along with the rest of the body.

It really sucks when you don’t have a good Jobber to rely on to give you the right advice. Sounds like the guy you talked to is used to DIY guys painting tractors.
Let’s see what you are working with and you might be ok...
 
Im curios what is the exact line of paint used. Industrial you said but is it enamel or urethane etc. Is it single stage or bc/cc? Ive been doing bodywork and painting for 15+ years. I need more info 2 b able 2 help u out
 
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