Valve to piston clearance

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Dusterfreak

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Ive got KB flat top pistons with valve reliefs, EQ heads and 222/226@.050 roller cam.
I dont have solid lifters so I cant measure the clearance, because the hydraulic lifters just collapse. What do you think, should I be worried about the clearance?
 
I along with a few others I've found through searching the forum are running cams with similar specs on stock Magnum pistons with no issues, I believe the KBs with valve reliefs have more room for the valves than stock pistons with the slight dish so you should be OK. One way I checked just to be sure the valves wouldn't smack the pistons on the first fire-up, I had a helper run the oil pump with a drill while I slowly rotated the engine over several times to let the lifters pump up. I was worried about it until the first time I stomped on the gas, broke the tires loose and it jumped up to 5500 RPM then I figured it should probably be OK lol. I haven't tried revving it past that yet but I've heard others having no issues up to 6500+
 
Ive got KB flat top pistons with valve reliefs, EQ heads and 222/226@.050 roller cam.
I dont have solid lifters so I cant measure the clearance, because the hydraulic lifters just collapse. What do you think, should I be worried about the clearance?

I use a 273 adjustable rocker arm, lifter, and pushrod to measure valve timing and piston-to-valve clearance... You adjust the rocker arm to have zero lash and measure...
 
How to Check Piston-To-Valve Clearance With Clay
Here is what everyone is gonna tell you to do.

I was told that too but I didn't feel like spending the money on a single solid roller lifter just to check clearance, "hey it's cheaper than having to build another engine" OK sure, your call there @Dusterfreak.

You could get a spare hydraulic lifter, gut the internals and stack washers inside to turn it into a solid... not sure how prevalent Magnum engines are in Finland though
 
I use a 273 adjustable rocker arm, lifter, and pushrod to measure valve timing and piston-to-valve clearance... You adjust the rocker arm to have zero lash and measure...

OP has a roller cam and lifters...
 
OP has a roller cam and lifters...

Yeah, but you can swap in the solid lifter, push rod, and rocker arm to measure cam timing and piston to valve clearance on cylinder #1 and then put the proper parts back on....

It's only temporary to check, not leave in permanently...

The distance from the cam lobe to the rocker shaft is the same on all small block engines...
 
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Yeah, but you can swap in the solid lifter, push rod, and rocker arm to measure cam timing and piston to valve clearance on cylinder #1 and then put the proper parts back on....

It's only temporary to check, not leave in permanently...

I suppose that would work if you're extra careful about the difference in length between the two types, just use a longer pushrod? I guess that would be easy to tell if the length is off too because there would be too much or too little lash...
 
I suppose that would work if you're extra careful about the difference in length between the two types, just use a longer pushrod? I guess that would be easy to tell if the length is off too because there would be too much or too little lash...

Just set up cylinder #1 as if it was a 273... Use the 273 solid lifter, 273 push rod, and 273 adjustable rocker arm and adjust to zero lash... Just do that for the one cylinder to check everything and then put the proper roller parts parts back on when you are done...

The 273 parts will be correct to measure the lobe, a lobe is a lobe, approximately .500" lift and 240 - 300 duration...
 
Just set up cylinder #1 as if it was a 273... Use the 273 solid lifter, 273 push rod, and 273 adjustable rocker arm and adjust to zero lash... Just do that for the one cylinder to check everything and then put the proper roller parts parts back on when you are done...

The 273 parts will be correct to measure the lobe, a lobe is a lobe, approximately .500" lift and 240 - 300 duration...

Now I feel kinda dumb lol, I kept telling myself during my build I HAD to use a roller lifter to check clearances... good advice I'll remember that!
 
Now I feel kinda dumb lol, I kept telling myself during my build I HAD to use a roller lifter to check clearances... good advice I'll remember that!

Sometimes we overthink things and make them more complicated than they really are... :BangHead:
 
Even if the hydraulic lifter collapsed wouldn't the play doe be soft enough to get a full impression before it collapsed? Surely the spring in a hydraulic lifter Is strong enough to impress playdoe?
 
What if we dont have a spare 273 laying around?

Buy a set of 273 rocker arms off the forum here when they are advertised and ask the seller to throw in the push rods and lifters, or at least two of them if he doesn't have them all...

I see them going for $150 most of the time...
 
Wouldn't that be better? Rollers dont collapse?? Maybe I'm wrong iv never ran rollers.

They make rollers in both hydraulic and solid, just like flat tappets... Hydraulic can collapse under load with no oil pressure...
 
Even if the hydraulic lifter collapsed wouldn't the play doe be soft enough to get a full impression before it collapsed? Surely the spring in a hydraulic lifter Is strong enough to impress playdoe?

No, the hydraulic lifter plunger will bleed down when you put a load on it....

Some people tear them apart and make a solid shim to hold the plunger in place to keep it from bleeding down and making your measurements incorrect...

If you could set the plunger at it's bottom and then set your adjustable rocker to zero lash it could work...

The goal is to keep the plunger from moving down when you are measuring... It can throw off your measurements..
 
I have a set of 273 rockers, but if you read carefully, I have EQ magnum heads. And empty OTB lifters fell right in without oil pressure.
 
No, the hydraulic lifter plunger will bleed down when you put a load on it....

Some people tear them apart and make a solid shim to hold the plunger in place to keep it from bleeding down and making your measurements incorrect...

If you could set the plunger at it's bottom and then set your adjustable rocker to zero lash it could work...

The goal is to keep the plunger from moving down when you are measuring... It can throw off your measurements..
I dont have adjustable rockers i have factory ones. But I have a bunch of used lifters I can take the guts out of. I also plan on making some light valve springs to do the cam decreeing
 
I have a set of 273 rockers, but if you read carefully, I have EQ magnum heads. And empty OTB lifters fell right in without oil pressure.

Maybe get an adjustable push rod to use to measure that set up...
 
I dont have adjustable rockers i have factory ones. But I have a bunch of used lifters I can take the guts out of. I also plan on making some light valve springs to do the cam decreeing

Keep an eye out for an incomplete set of 273 adjustable rocker arms and see what kind of deal you can get for them or if the seller will separate two of them and throw in the push rod and lifter for them...
 
Disassemble one of the lifters you are going to use, put a stack of washer in it until the push rod seat is snug to a hair loose but snug is preferred. Mock it up with your rockers with an Adjustable push rod tool to get your length. Be sure the cam is on the base circle when you do this. Finished Push Rod should be length measured plus lifter preload.
 
Worried for this cam with a typical lift/duration ratio? Probably not. Check it? Yes, you know how all this works: it would be asking for trouble to not do so!

Once assembled, you can use this method:
- Replace the 2 valve spring on one cylinder with very light checking springs from the hardware store, just barely enough to close the valves. My checking springs exert maybe 1/2 lb on the valves; the springs in the lifter will put several lbs on the valve... the lifter spring will win.
- Turn the engine slowly, 5-10 degrees at a time, and, starting around 40 degrees before TDC on overlap and going to about 40 degrees after overlap, stop each 5-10 degrees and push down on both valves, and measure the movement. The movement that you find will be your P-V clearance at each spot.
- The most likely minimum clearance points will be within +/-15 degrees of TDC.

If you have good clearance, then stop there; it will be that much or more when running.

If clearance is inadequate or marginal, then do one more step: Since the spring inside the hydraulic lifter is 'outpushing' the very light checking springs on the valves, then the valve is actually being 'hung' slightly open and the P-V clearance measured above will be less than actual running clearance. So you need to measure that actual extra clearance.

- Rotate the engine to TDC on compression stroke for the test cylinder; this will put the lifters on the base circle.
- Check the height of the retainer to a reference surface.
- Back off the valve rocker shafts to let the valves rise to the seats, then measure the extra height on the retainer, and figure out how much the valve has risen.
- Add that to the P-V clearance you found before to get a better number on actual running clearance when the lifter's piston has actually adjusted to its final running position.

Hope that all makes sense!
 
I filled my lifter with BB's to make it solid. Used the above mentioned check spring with hand cranked engine rotations. You can figure out pretty quickly when the clearances are getting small, and a dial indicator will tell you how close. You are doing the right thing by checking, too many variable from one engine to the next.
 
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