Rack and Pinion conversion

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Think hard before you answer..........what is the actual advantage?
 
It saved me a ton of room on my 64 barracuda, I got B-Body race headers on it and not out the fender well, Down through the chassis. Bump steer was the hard part but I got it 0 bump steer through 3/4 of the travel, so then I just put adjusting bolts in the upper control arms were the bumpers used to be. Adjusting them so I got 0 toe through the whole travel.

My rack is also out front.
 
67Dart273 said:
Think hard before you answer..........what is the actual advantage?
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like... none.. on a wide 68? You end up with a rather large turning radius, a wonky U-jointed steering shaft and possible suspension geometry issues. Sure its been done but it has its place on drag cars with limited steering requirement.
 
I'm researching this to see if it is practical at all. I could really use the room that the steering box takes up. I am planning to install a Gen 3 Hemi and things get extremely tight in that area.
 
Certainly not cost effective. And time & Labor. Hope you can nail this 100% on your own.
 
Borgeson hydraulic power box, or use a mopar 16-1 manual box, and do an electric power steering conversion using a toyota yaris EPS motor mounted under the dash to a modified column. Problem solved.
 
I currently have a power steering box and all the info that I've gathered says that the power box has to go bye bye. I can go with a manual box as long as I don't have to parallel park it.
 
brian6pac said:
It saved me a ton of room on my 64 barracuda, I got B-Body race headers on it and not out the fender well, Down through the chassis. Bump steer was the hard part but I got it 0 bump steer through 3/4 of the travel, so then I just put adjusting bolts in the upper control arms were the bumpers used to be. Adjusting them so I got 0 toe through the whole travel.

My rack is also out front.
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So, what has to be done to put a rack in the front? I would think that the stock K member won't work. Iv'e heard that the left and right spindles can be swapped, moving the arms to the front.
 
Magiver said:
So, what has to be done to put a rack in the front? I would think that the stock K member won't work. Iv'e heard that the left and right spindles can be swapped, moving the arms to the front.
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I just moved the ball joints from left to right and put the arms out front, they did have to be cut and welded to move them close to the wheel. The rack is a pinto unit so it's small and is about in the middle of the front of the stock K member.
 
I put one in my 67 Valiant, as part of the Gerst K-member. I did it for the same reasons as you, I need the room for the new motor. You'll note I also got rid of the torsion bars for header clearance too.

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Magiver said:
So, what has to be done to put a rack in the front? I would think that the stock K member won't work. Iv'e heard that the left and right spindles can be swapped, moving the arms to the front.
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This has been covered here before more than a few times. Just swapping the ball joints left to right to put the steering arms up front totally hammers the Ackerman. It's a lot harder than that to get a system that steers half decently.

If you need to have a rack, look at the coilover conversion systems out there- HemiDenny, RMS, Gerst, etc. At least with those systems someone has looked at the resulting geometry.

Of course, there are also more than a few guys that have done new engine swaps on these cars and kept the torsion bars, so, the argument that it has to be done for room isn't accurate. Yes, the torsion bar locations do complicate things, and the headers on some of those engine conversions are a pain. But it can and has been done. For that matter, the headers on an A-body are always a pain. And the coilover conversions come with their own issues. They stress parts of the original chassis in ways they simply weren't designed for. And there are track width and turning radius changes as well. Nothing that can't be overcome, but coil-over conversions DO have drawbacks. All suspension systems have pros and cons, that goes for coilovers just like it goes for torsion bars.

The new Borgeson power steering boxes are pretty close to the size of the original manual boxes. There are differences of course, but a new Borgeson box makes some of those swaps easier without doing a full K member and coilover conversion.
 
72bluNblu said:
This has been covered here before more than a few times. Just swapping the ball joints left to right to put the steering arms up front totally hammers the Ackerman. It's a lot harder than that to get a system that steers half decently.

If you need to have a rack, look at the coilover conversion systems out there- HemiDenny, RMS, Gerst, etc. At least with those systems someone has looked at the resulting geometry.

Of course, there are also more than a few guys that have done new engine swaps on these cars and kept the torsion bars, so, the argument that it has to be done for room isn't accurate. Yes, the torsion bar locations do complicate things, and the headers on some of those engine conversions are a pain. But it can and has been done. For that matter, the headers on an A-body are always a pain. And the coilover conversions come with their own issues. They stress parts of the original chassis in ways they simply weren't designed for. And there are track width and turning radius changes as well. Nothing that can't be overcome, but coil-over conversions DO have drawbacks. All suspension systems have pros and cons, that goes for coilovers just like it goes for torsion bars.

The new Borgeson power steering boxes are pretty close to the size of the original manual boxes. There are differences of course, but a new Borgeson box makes some of those swaps easier without doing a full K member and coilover conversion.
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It's not that hard if you understand it, all you have to do is go from the center of the rear axle with a straight line through the center of the ball joint to the center of the outer tie rod and the ackerman geometry is correct. that's what I did and it steers great. Like I said I fixed the bump steer to 0 through the travel also, It's not hard if you understand it.
 
Biff said:
Gary how much did this set up cost you ? Looks solid , and does the stock steering column bolt up with minimal cobbling ?
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The GTS kits start around 4 grand, depending on the options you want. I looked at several different kits, and preferred the Gerst. It's not cheap, but it's very well made, fits perfectly, and unlike some kits, the coil overs do not stress any part of the original car, as they are contained completely by the new K member. (See how the coil overs attach at the top)
I'm not using the stock steering column, so I can't give you an answer there.
 
brian6pac said:
It's not that hard if you understand it, all you have to do is go from the center of the rear axle with a straight line through the center of the ball joint to the center of the outer tie rod and the ackerman geometry is correct. that's what I did and it steers great. Like I said I fixed the bump steer to 0 through the travel also, It's not hard if you understand it.
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You cut and welded the steering arms on your ball joints to accomplish that, which takes some skill to do correctly. It's also something you'll have to do every time you replace your lower ball joints. So, yeah, in my book that makes it "harder" to get a system that steers correctly.

I didn't say it couldn't be done, and yes, I understand Ackerman just fine. I also have no need for a rack and pinion on my car, so I have absolutely no desire to do anything like that. I'm perfectly happy with my 16:1 manual steering, 275/35/18's and +6.5° of caster. Sure, that doesn't suit everyone, but welded steering arms probably don't either.
 
I did this about 35 years ago before there were any bolt on kits. As far as wearing out the ball joints I don't think that's ever going to happen the miles it will get driven. All I can say is that it worked great for me.
So it can be done if you are eager enough.
 
Garry in AZ said:
The GTS kits start around 4 grand, depending on the options you want. I looked at several different kits, and preferred the Gerst. It's not cheap, but it's very well made, fits perfectly, and unlike some kits, the coil overs do not stress any part of the original car, as they are contained completely by the new K member. (See how the coil overs attach at the top)
I'm not using the stock steering column, so I can't give you an answer there.
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Omg that’s 8000$ Canadian I need to win the lottery!
 
Not that hard. Call Bill at RMS. You do away with the torsion bars and gain a ton of room for headers. My 68 Barracuda has a complete coil over RMS front suspension with a power rack and pinion.
 
Sounds like you want to build your own....

I found a ton of info regarding geometry of a Mustang II front end from a tutorial on the first several pages of a Heidts Hot Rod parts catalog.

Denny
 
moparmat2000 said:
Borgeson hydraulic power box, or use a mopar 16-1 manual box, and do an electric power steering conversion using a toyota yaris EPS motor mounted under the dash to a modified column. Problem solved.
Click to expand...
You have any pics, further details on how you did this?
 
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