Pedal rod to Z bar question.

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Kendog 170

Let the boy go !
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I have significant play where the pedal rod meets the Z-bar. Is there a grommet or something I'm missing or is this normal? Maybe just worn out ?
 
There is some "slop" or free movement before things start to engage, its not a tight fit. You should have one of the nylon washer on the Z-bar "post(s)", then the rod, and the spring clip. Do you have the spring attached at the throw out arm and is the clutch adjusted? There should be a smooth linear motion to the system and no side to side or cocking of the rods/Z-bar, if so there is an issue. The bushings inside the Z-bar might be shot or gone. Given the age of these car and abuse a lot of them have taken being worn out could be a concern. The only way to know is to remove and inspect.

The image below will give you an idea of how the system goes together.

zbarpic-jpg.jpg
 
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Yes I already put the Z-bar bushing,seal,washer,lock spring kit in. My issue is New clutch ,PP and throw out B. I can adjust clutch with pedal really low on floor but pedal won't completely return. I did put a stiffer spring from z bar to pivot arm to try to help .If I adjust pedal higher I will go (over center?) which I did once and popped the spring retainer on throw out bearing.(That was fun fixing) I would have to put a block under the pedal or Fab. a stop if I want my adjustment at top of pedal.
 
Yes I already put the Z-bar bushing,seal,washer,lock spring kit in. My issue is New clutch ,PP and throw out B. I can adjust clutch with pedal really low on floor but pedal won't completely return. I did put a stiffer spring from z bar to pivot arm to try to help .If I adjust pedal higher I will go (over center?) which I did once and popped the spring retainer on throw out bearing.(That was fun fixing) I would have to put a block under the pedal or Fab. a stop if I want my adjustment at top of pedal.

So to get what going on correct, it all worked before, then you replace the clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing?
 
Not the diaphragm type clutch same stock style (3 Finger). Kinda had to pull the last inch up with my foot sometimes before clutch change but never had pedal adjustment issues . The clutch works fine. I've read some throw out bearings are sized different and can cause this.
 
Going crazy now. If I push to much on the pedal the fork forces itself off the throw out bearing spring clips. I think the throw out bearing it too long on the shaft but don't have my original to compare. The fingers on the PP are about 2.5 inches off he flywheel. The fork sits about 1 5/8 " from the face of the bearing but seems like the collar in the back is to long . (I should have taken a pic)
Iv'e heard good things about the McLeod diaphragm clutch I might throw in the towel and purchase. Anyone running this set up and do you like it ? I know I have to remove the pedal spring.
1968 DODGE DART McLeod StreetPro Clutch Kits 75109
 
interesting, I don't have an answer, but I agree the stack up of the pressure plate to the fingers to the throw out bearing depth seems to be different among clutch component suppliers. I changed out the clutch and pressure plate and throw out bearing on my 83 D150 / a833, and I believe the clutch engage point is much closer to the floor than it was previously, unfortunately I did not measure - compare the old and the new and the new one is installed.
Please post back what you find.
 
Top spring may be failing from being stretched. The fork is original. Can't check the old ones as I have been packing a trailer as I'm moving and it's buried. Fork is push all the way into position. Thought I could make a stop as not to go too far with pedal but bearing just fell off fork again after barely pressing the pedal. Can't keep taking out gear box. Can't have this happen at any given moment. Soon to have No garage.
So has anyone used the McLeod with stock 340 set up and did everything go well ? Street driver only. Track maybe once a year on Nostalgia Day.
 
I don't know if this helps you any, but here is a few pics that I took when I put a new Ram B&B clutch and throw out bearing in my 340 Dart.

100_4513.JPG


100_4515.JPG


100_4516.JPG


100_4518.JPG
 
Top spring may be failing from being stretched. The fork is original. Can't check the old ones as I have been packing a trailer as I'm moving and it's buried. Fork is push all the way into position. Thought I could make a stop as not to go too far with pedal but bearing just fell off fork again after barely pressing the pedal. Can't keep taking out gear box. Can't have this happen at any given moment. Soon to have No garage.
So has anyone used the McLeod with stock 340 set up and did everything go well ? Street driver only. Track maybe once a year on Nostalgia Day.

Posting some pictures of the complete setup might help us help you.
 
Well just dropped the gear box when I got home from work. Including jack it up and doing on my back I had it out in exactly 1 hr. Not bad for a 60 year old goat. Here's some pics of the bearings. Springs are stretched
Throw out B1.jpeg
Throw out B2.jpeg
 
Any ways as state has anyone have any input on the McLeod setup I posted. ??? I am changing out previous B&B style to Diaphragm type.
 
Never had a diaphragm clutch. So I can't comment there.

Well just dropped the gear box when I got home from work. Including jack it up and doing on my back I had it out in exactly 1 hr. Not bad for a 60 year old goat. Here's some pics of the bearings. Springs are stretched View attachment 1715328728 View attachment 1715328729
:thumbsup:
Lol, it's get faster …… with repeated practice!
With weak/bent or otherwise deformed spring clips I wonder if that bearing is grabbing on you and spinning or just plain rattling itself off the fork. As I see it, the further the fork tips move in toward the fingers to release the clutch, the less area the clips have to hold. Also take into account how worn the fork pads that contact the release bearing are. A bent or worn down pivot won't help either.

Brewer's 23 spline release bearing description.....
"Product ID: CB1463
CB1463 THROWOUT BEARING ASSEMBLY 23 SPLINE
Details

Throwout bearing/sleeve assembly, fits all models with 23 spline transmissions. 1.625" face of throwout bearing to fork pad dimension."

Passon Performance doesn't provide a description.
 
I had issues like that on my 66 Dart. The replacement clutch worked good but the pedal didn't return to the stop. After properly adjusting the clutch, I just got a hardware store spring and added it to the petal. I stress this because I feel it's very important: Remove your inspection cover and adjust the clutch by the gap between the throw out bearing and pressure plate fingers. They shouldn't touch. I adjust with a 1/8-3/16" gap. I ruined a clutch by adjusting it by the pedal travel only. The t/o bearing was riding on the PP fingers, it smoked the bearing and ate the tips of the fingers.
 
I have done that but when I step on pedal the bearing comes off the fork when pressing pedal I agree you need free play to prevent bearing from spinning when not needed. Still no answer on McLeod Clutch so I guess I'm on my own there. I've heard LUK makes a decent set up but haven't had time to research.
 
I was all set to buy the same Mcleod clutch that you posted in the link, but decided on the Ram B&B which I bought from Summit. My decision was based on not wanting the have the fun of removing the O/C spring and what a few people said about the clutch releasing too high in the pedal.
I'm happy with the Ram B&B so far. The pedal is a little heavy to some, but it's OK to me. The clutch engages just below the pedal going over center and the pedal always returns to it's top when released.
 
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Yes I already put the Z-bar bushing,seal,washer,lock spring kit in. My issue is New clutch ,PP and throw out B. I can adjust clutch with pedal really low on floor but pedal won't completely return. I did put a stiffer spring from z bar to pivot arm to try to help .If I adjust pedal higher I will go (over center?) which I did once and popped the spring retainer on throw out bearing.(That was fun fixing) I would have to put a block under the pedal or Fab. a stop if I want my adjustment at top of pedal.

Going crazy now. If I push to much on the pedal the fork forces itself off the throw out bearing spring clips. I think the throw out bearing it too long on the shaft but don't have my original to compare. The fingers on the PP are about 2.5 inches off he flywheel. The fork sits about 1 5/8 " from the face of the bearing but seems like the collar in the back is to long . (I should have taken a pic)
Iv'e heard good things about the McLeod diaphragm clutch I might throw in the towel and purchase. Anyone running this set up and do you like it ? I know I have to remove the pedal spring.
1968 DODGE DART McLeod StreetPro Clutch Kits 75109
The low pedal is your problem. And the distant bearing proves it, along with the fork coming off the TO legs.You probably have the wrong fork pivot bracket. and or too short a fork. Go to the Brewers Site and have a look.
With the correct parts, the pedal will park at the top. Then when correctly adjusted for freeplay, you will have 3/4 to 1 inch of no resistance, then the TO will contact the fingers. Then an additional inch or at most 2 will generate enough clutch departure to engage reverse without grinding. No further pedal is required. That left-over travel can be used for a custom free-play adjustment, but I like my TO to contact in the first 1/2" travel. It just means an annual freeplay adjustment to me,no biggie.
If you want to measure the departure, I set mine to about .060, most guys set it to .080. You only need enough so that the shift can easily be made; that is to say, that the synchros don't have to try and slow the clutch down, cuz they won't last long trying that.
The hardest job is at zero mph and idle, cuz if the clutch is dragging,all the other gears are already spinning, and the synchro is desperately trying to get the low gear to stop; and to do that, all the gears, every last one of them, have to stop. That's a tall order for that lil brass ring. This is why I said to use reverse as your "grind me a pound" guide. Departure is adequate if/when reverse is easy to "snick" into. You might have to wait a second or two with thin oil, but no more that 2 or 3.
 
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Well I don't have the wrong fork or bracket. Car has been driven 200K miles without issues until now.This is a stock original drive train. I ordered the McLeod clutch last night as this car needs to be driving in less than a week as I am moving.
I have adjusted the clutch the 2nd time so pedal was high but bearing still separated from the fork.
 
Well if the pedal parts are right, then the either the clutch disc is too fat or the finger height is set up too low, cuz the TOB looks right. .
Or I suppose the entire clutch assembly is too far forward, but I can't see how that could happen. Well I can; seems to me that you are about the third guy in about a year who had this issue, and IIRC the issue was a short PP case/ wrong finger height. I used to have a finger height spec. I'll look around.

Ok found it in the Bulletin Book as 1.700 using a fixture. But no explanation as to how to use the fixture, or whether the spec is installed or on the bench. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
 
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Ok found it in the Bulletin Book as 1.700 using a fixture. But no explanation as to how to use the fixture, or whether the spec is installed or on the bench. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
FingHeightFix.gif

I questioned how to use it also way back. I didn't see any responses. Maybe I missed them.
Anyway I went this route with it.
I believe the .310" bottom plate of the fixture is used for the installed disc thickness. So I had a plate disc ground to .310" by our toolroom some time ago. Bolted the cover over the disc to the flywheel. I used a depth mic across two fingers to check height.

I found this particular MP cover (new at the time) had two fingers appear pretty much on the money and the third almost .050" out. You might be able to make out the extra stakes on the right side nut......

upload_2019-5-2_18-44-7.png
 
Yeah that's it
So then the 1.7 is from the fingers to the back of the .310 plate you made?

What then is the significance of the .375 x .265, top plate

Oh wait I get it now; the fixture is not for measuring per se'; but rather you bolt it all together , THEN adjust the fingers.... right?
 
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