Ride quality even worse than expected. Advice welcome.

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MRGTX

MRGTX

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I have been focusing on handling parts for my Dart. This virtually always means a serious ride penalty but that roughness can also improve the sense of connection with the car in addition to better handling manners and predictable limits. I have done complete suspension setups in several cars (late model Mustangs, Miatas) so I was pretty well prepared for some "harshness" but this just doesn't quite feel right.

I'm wondering if my setup is just suffering from being too low (lacking travel) or of something else is going on but the car basically rides like crap. It bangs and shudders over bumps and feels just jittery but still lacking any sense of satisfying feedback.

I have chassis reinforcements still sitting in a box, waiting to go in the car (torque boxes and subframe connectors) so I haven't even dreamed of pushing it through any corners yet but nothing about the driving characteristics inspires confidence.

QA1 Upper and lower control arms
QA1 Dynamic adjustable strut rods
1.14" Torsion bars
Mancini camber spacers (may remove if not needed)
Hotchkis/Fox shocks (non-adjustable)
Helwig front sway bar
16:1 manual steering box
Fresh ball joints
Hotchkis rear lowering leaf springs
1.5" lowering blocks
relatively light aluminum wheels
225/60/15 front, 255/60/15 rear tires (poor performance tires but they should only help the ride quality, no?)

Anything inherently wrong with that combo?
Looking at the car, it doesn't strike me as being extremely low...

(Yes, I know the hood is still crooked...It still working on that. I just got impatient and wanted to go for a drive :D)

5-18-19 Dart.jpg
 
Thats a tough one. I'm sure the folks will ask for pic's of the setup. Are you bottoming out on the bump stops? Is anything hitting anything else on bumps? The whole car does seem a little low, but I'm sure since you are going for really good handling, thats what you want. With all the adjustable parts, I'm sure a good alignment is achievable. What are the numbers set at for it?
I just got done doing a small scale of what you did, like last night. I did the 1.03 T bar, 1.25 sway bar, reinforced lca, and offset bushings on the uca's. I aligned it myself with the quicktrick tools and turnplates. I expect the same, a bit of a harsh ride, but hopefully still a decent ride..will find out today.
 
ChuckDock said:
Thats a tough one. I'm sure the folks will ask for pic's of the setup. Are you bottoming out on the bump stops? Is anything hitting anything else on bumps? The whole car does seem a little low, but I'm sure since you are going for really good handling, thats what you want. With all the adjustable parts, I'm sure a good alignment is achievable. What are the numbers set at for it?
I just got done doing a small scale of what you did, like last night. I did the 1.03 T bar, 1.25 sway bar, reinforced lca, and offset bushings on the uca's. I aligned it myself with the quicktrick tools and turnplates. I expect the same, a bit of a harsh ride, but hopefully still a decent ride..will find out today.
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Yeah, I am wondering if I am on the bump stops...but the car really doesn't seem that low. Cutting the bump stops doesn't seem like the best idea but there must be some way that guys are able to drive around lower than my car.

J Glenn said:
Shouldn't that be step 1?
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It certainly could be step 1. I don't see why I has to be. I the flex would definitely be bad for handling (I haven't gotten to that point quite yet) but if anything, I would guess that the flexibility in the chassis could soak up some of the bumps and reduce harshness. I have heard that this is why Chrysler preferred to leave the front/rear subframes disconnected in the first place as it made for a smoother ride. Seems ridiculous.
 
I was dealing with the same symptoms, and after checking the whole suspension out and finding nothing I went to the air pressure in the tires. I was given some erroneous information and had my tire pressures maxed out at 44psi. Sounded like a good idea on the front with the 440. Anyway dropped all the pressures down to 35psi and what a difference! I don’t know what pressures your using but I would at least give em a look. Just my 2 cents of experience. Good luck.
 
Bump stops would be the first place I'd check. I think Energy Suspension sells replacements, I'd get those and trim them as needed of you find your riding on them. Secondly I'd check shock travel. You may be out of their range or simply got the wrong pair. On your sway bar, does it pivot freely? I've found I needed to shim some sway bar mounts to keep them from clamping he bar too tightly. I've seen hollow bars break from the mounts being too tight.

Nice looking car BTW.
 
Cut the bump stops or buy some shorter ones, at that ride height you are using the rubber for suspension.
I have a car with 1.14 bars and 15 inch wheels no sub frame connectors and it rides better than my wife’s 2012 GT 5.0...
 
67autocross said:
Cut the bump stops or buy some shorter ones, at that ride height you are using the rubber for suspension.
I have a car with 1.14 bars and 15 inch wheels no sub frame connectors and it rides better than my wife’s 2012 GT 5.0...
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Sounding like a consensus is emerging about the bump stops. How much can you safely cut off of them?

Funny that you’d compare it to the 2012 5.0. I have a 2011 5.0 lowered on Eibach springs/Bilstein shocks and it rides way nicer than the Dart!
 
this may sound pretty basic but make sure you tighten all the components in the proper sequence and to the correct torque specs.
I have done this wrong in the past and had a similar out come.
 
mbaird said:
this may sound pretty basic but make sure you tighten all the components in the proper sequence and to the correct torque specs.
I have done this wrong in the past and had a similar out come.
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This is a good point...and while it does seem basic, no mistake is too dumb to get by me. I’m winging every project on this car! The only help I have is this forum...so I can say definitively that I just torqued stuff in an order that seemed logical and didn’t think too much about it.
I’ll look into this! Thanks.
 
Suspension travel is very important on a street setup. I originally had my car slammed, the more I drove it the more I lifted back up.

IMG_20180112_122234~3.jpg


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IMG_20180828_114044.jpg
 
Take the bump stops to the bench grinder, give them a smaller point in the middle, give it some thing to hit over bumps but it will be a lot softer
 
So I drive a 2014 F150 with an ecoboost. Why the fekk does that matter to you? Well this generation of F150's is notorious for having subtle mystery clunks, bumps, squeaks, whines, shimmies, etc. Most of them are very very subtle, but eventually drive the owners insane. The best diagnostic tool I have seen used to figure out these "under way" troubles.... a GoPro or similar mounted under the vehicle.
It's beyond helpful to actually watch a suspected part doing what it does. I strongly suggest it.
 
JoeSBP said:
So I drive a 2014 F150 with an ecoboost. Why the fekk does that matter to you? Well this generation of F150's is notorious for having subtle mystery clunks, bumps, squeaks, whines, shimmies, etc. Most of them are very very subtle, but eventually drive the owners insane. The best diagnostic tool I have seen used to figure out these "under way" troubles.... a GoPro or similar mounted under the vehicle.
It's beyond helpful to actually watch a suspected part doing what it does. I strongly suggest it.
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That's why I drive a Chevy truck, runs like a top, all I do is change the oil never have a problem, never make any noises at all
 
Also make sure you tightened all suspension bolts with the weight of the car on the wheels. If any were tightened with the suspension hanging loose, that very well could pose a lot of problems. The suspension would be preloaded when you let it down. If there's any doubt at all, I would go back and loosen everything then re-tighten with the weight on the wheels.

I'm usually not a huge fan of lowered stuff, but that car does have a really good stance. Hope you get it worked out without having to change that.
 
Sounds like a lot of 'stiffen it up' suspension parts.
If you have poly bushings as well, then that's the way it resonates bumps. 70-80 series tires are what these rode on stock, rubber bushings, natural body flex and sway.. if you want them to corner, you stiffen them up with aftermarket parts
 
I've got .99 TB's, OEM 6 leaf springs in the back, Bilstein RCD's all around and 245/45R17 and only one real drive so far, but I love how it feels. At least as good as my '15 RT STP.

Not an apples to apples, I know.

IMAG0777.jpg


Two things I would look at:

1. @72bluNblu has recommended puck style LCA bumpers. Might be for this very reason.
2. Make sure the LCA pivot pin wasn't torqued before the weight of the vehicle was on them. I kind of doubt it is an issue if you have poly bushings, but something to look at.

For what it's worth, I know I am just touching the bumper to the frame, with the stock bumper. If you are running much lower than I am (hard to tell), then you are probably compressing the bumpers and don't have any travel.
 
Ride is so subjective.I made mild upgrades to my suspension and it was very nice on good roads.
....but most of our roads are terrible and i ended up dialing it back some.I know a few guys that just bought all name brand "improved" suspension pieces and the results were dreadful.
It requires careful thought and parts matching.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Sounds like a lot of 'stiffen it up' suspension parts.
If you have poly bushings as well, then that's the way it resonates bumps. 70-80 series tires are what these rode on stock, rubber bushings, natural body flex and sway.. if you want them to corner, you stiffen them up with aftermarket parts
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You got that right. A lot of people don't realize just how much extra road vibration poly bushings transmit, but it's a lot. It doesn't bother some people. It would me if it was something I drove everyday. For a street car, I prefer high quality rubber any day.
 
If driven on mad roads (Most of the country) the car needs suspension travel to
absorb the impacts. 1.14 torsion bars do not deflect enough, great for handling
but a big compromise for frequent street in the real world.
 
66jim said:
1.14 torsion bars do not deflect enough, great for handling
but a big compromise for frequent street in the real world.
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And yet 72bluNblu runs 1.12" TB's and claims his car rides as well as the late model Mustang he also used to drive. Funny thing is, we have 2 other posts in this thread about people comparing their cars to a late model Mustang, and I think blu's was about the same year.

Could be subjective, could be the location, could be the combination of parts.

I am sure a big TB with inferior shocks ride's like a dump truck. But I've seen several people with a the right combination that say there car rode great.

My money is on the fact that the OP just needs to adjust his range of travel with revised bump stops and then he will be talking about much he likes the ride.
 
I purchased the bump stops 72BluNblu recommended, but nowhere near to being on the road yet. My guess is you do have a range of travel issue at the very least, & these would be a big step. torque sequence & weight on the wheels also.
I hope to hear a good outcome because I will be going down this same road (though not as soon as I'd like)
Love how your car is looking MRGTX
 
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