Swapping X's for Trick Flows

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Any reason you are advancing the cam an additional 2 degrees over the 4 degrees of ground in advance? I ask, as your DCR is pushing the mid 8's and the added advance just increases it.

Got a plan to start lower on the initial ignition timing, and slower on the ignition mechanical advance, and then work it up in stages? From what I can see, you are bumping DCR MORE than 1 degree with the drop in chamber size unless your X-heads were milled down some to smaller chambers. If you had detonation issue before, and you jump up over a point in DCR, I would not expect the AL material alone to keep you out of detonation.
Hi there,
Thank you for your response.
We'll originally I had installed the cam dot to dot.
Regrettably I did not degree it.
So I really don't know exactly where it is.
It seemed a bit lazy on bottom end and only had 10" of vacuum with 20* initial timing
So I moved the timing set to the 4* degree crank advance key way.
It picked up some bottom end and vacuum went up to 12"
Cranking compression also went from 165 to 170+
After playing with the distributor, carb, pcv valves...etc vacuum came up to 14
The x heads have been milled to 66cc
Running 91 I could only put 32* total before it would start pinging.
If I need to I'll put the cam back to where it was.
I'm also hoping having some quench .044
Will help it some too...
 
Too much compression for 91 octane in that combo.

Need to stay at same compression as before when you did have detonation problems.... and hope that quench and aluminum take care of a slight detonation problem.
 
Hi there,
Thank you for your response.
We'll originally I had installed the cam dot to dot.
Regrettably I did not degree it.
So I really don't know exactly where it is.
It seemed a bit lazy on bottom end and only had 10" of vacuum with 20* initial timing
So I moved the timing set to the 4* degree crank advance key way.
It picked up some bottom end and vacuum went up to 12"
Cranking compression also went from 165 to 170+
After playing with the distributor, carb, pcv valves...etc vacuum came up to 14
The x heads have been milled to 66cc
Running 91 I could only put 32* total before it would start pinging.
If I need to I'll put the cam back to where it was.
I'm also hoping having some quench .044
Will help it some too...
OK, so you found the limit of timing on the X-heads. That's what you have to do.... I did similarly with a 10.3 SCR/8.3 DCR iron headed engine with quench on 93 octane.

If your X-heads were at 66 cc's then you are only going up about 0.5-0.6 points on the SCR/DCR, not a full point. With that, the AL plus some quench/squish effect plus the small chambers will make up for than much and a bit more IMHO. So you have a good chance to be better off.

BTW, I get around 8.5 for DCR.

I think I'd time the cam if you can and push the cam timing back a couple of degrees. You're gonna pick up some low RPM torque with the added SCR/DCR.
 
OK, so you found the limit of timing on the X-heads. That's what you have to do.... I did similarly with a 10.3 SCR/8.3 DCR iron headed engine with quench on 93 octane.

If your X-heads were at 66 cc's then you are only going up about 0.5-0.6 points on the SCR/DCR, not a full point. With that, the AL plus some quench/squish effect plus the small chambers will make up for than much and a bit more IMHO. So you have a good chance to be better off.

BTW, I get around 8.5 for DCR.

I think I'd time the cam if you can and push the cam timing back a couple of degrees. You're gonna pick up some low RPM torque with the added SCR/DCR.
That's correct 8.55 @ 60* abdc
On the dcr calculator I entered
Int. Close @ 58* abdc.
Instead of 60* because of advancing it 2*
But still only guessing without degeeing it.
 
You're on the right track in working the numbers to get a fair idea of where you are at.

Let us know how the ignition timing works out. An FBO plate would be nice to have to make to advance totals easily variable. Do you know at what RPM your distributor's total advance came in? You might want to delay that too.

An AFR gauge would sure be nice on this one....just to know where the mix was for sure.
 
Making some headway,
Mocked up rocker arms measured for pushrod length.
20190525_170516.jpg
20190525_170547.jpg
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The pushrod length came out to 7.900"
Just happens to be a .100 long sbc
Local speed shop had them in stock!
20190525_174228.jpg
 
Up and Running!
Has noticeably more power everywhere.
Mostly mid to high end.
I put it back together with everything where it was with the X Heads.
Timing, carburetor, ignition module...etc
So I could see the difference between the Heads alone.
So far so good!
No detonation / pinging !!
This was the first full normal day of driving.
I'm up grading one part at a time.
Tonight I installed a FBO ign. Box and coil.
Starts much faster, I'll know more as I go.

Found a gm power steering pump that had the return line out of the way.
Pulley was too far off so I bought one from mancini that works perfectly!

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Compression came up 20 lbs.
170 to 190
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Cool. congrats on getting it back running! How did you solve the driver's side manifold interference?
 
Good start! Keep any eye and ear out for detonation when the weather turns cool in the fall and the air gets denser. BTW, I think your compression gauge is in error..!
 
Cool. congrats on getting it back running! How did you solve the driver's side manifold interference?
Cool. congrats on getting it back running! How did you solve the driver's side manifold interference?
Patriot Header Flange Kits H7880
Kendog 170 suggested these and it works perfectly!!
Only put one on driver side quick fix for now.
That's a LOT of top end without headers. Hell of an upgrade, though. Still, no way would I choke that nice top end with manifolds.
I'm saving up for a set of dougs.
A few people feel headers would be a better choice...lol
Myself Included!
 
Good start! Keep any eye and ear out for detonation when the weather turns cool in the fall and the air gets denser. BTW, I think your compression gauge is in error..!
Maybe?
I'll check it with another one.
Snap on will warranty it if so...lol
Thank you
 
Patriot Header Flange Kits H7880
Kendog 170 suggested these and it works perfectly!!
Only put one on driver side quick fix for now.

I'm saving up for a set of dougs.
A few people feel headers would be a better choice...lol
Myself Included!

Ok cool. That was a good idea. He's good for somethin every once in a while. lol
 
Any regrets on the heads yet? They look like good pieces...

JW
No regrets,
They are a work of art!
By far the nicest production small block mopar heads IMO
Trick Flow did a Awesome job!
After looking them over myself I felt confident they would be just fine bolting them on right out of the box.
And they were no problems whatsoever.
Just normal aftermarket stuff like bolt on accessories needing a few simple mods.
I'm so grateful for all you guys on fabo!
I spend a lot of time researching here to learn and to find out the go to people that can help even further.
That's how I found out about Mike @ b3 racing.
I'm so glad I did he helped a ton on this head swap deal.
Highly recommend!
Thank you all fabo!!
 
No regrets,
They are a work of art!
By far the nicest production small block mopar heads IMO
Trick Flow did a Awesome job!
After looking them over myself I felt confident they would be just fine bolting them on right out of the box.
And they were no problems whatsoever.
Just normal aftermarket stuff like bolt on accessories needing a few simple mods.
I'm so grateful for all you guys on fabo!
I spend a lot of time researching here to learn and to find out the go to people that can help even further.
That's how I found out about Mike @ b3 racing.
I'm so glad I did he helped a ton on this head swap deal.
Highly recommend!
Thank you all fabo!!


Can't say enough good about Mike at B3. Just an all around great guy who makes products that work. He knows his stuff.
 
Wait till you get headers on that bad boy. lol
 
I like that you are using exhaust manifolds with these heads. And what I find more interesting is how you are saying seat of the pants is basically night and day from your X heads.....
Can't say enough good about Mike at B3. Just an all around great guy who makes products that work. He knows his stuff.

I talked to him for a while yesterday. Between our short bantering through PM and what I have on a stand wanting these heads the checkbook will probably come out Monday. Mike is a square guy no doubt who has been in the biz..... I am by no means a head expert but having been burned by junk W-5's due to crap casting it's my personal opinion that this is the best thing offered to the Small block mopar guys in a long, long time....

JW
 
I like that you are using exhaust manifolds with these heads. And what I find more interesting is how you are saying seat of the pants is basically night and day from your X heads.....


I talked to him for a while yesterday. Between our short bantering through PM and what I have on a stand wanting these heads the checkbook will probably come out Monday. Mike is a square guy no doubt who has been in the biz..... I am by no means a head expert but having been burned by junk W-5's due to crap casting it's my personal opinion that this is the best thing offered to the Small block mopar guys in a long, long time....

JW

Maybe a dumb question.... but what is there to like about buying a 2000 dollar set of performance heads and bottling them up( and your performance gains in general) by not letting them breathe.
If the OP has to save up for headers thats understandable, but there is nothing to “ like” about having to use stock exhaust manifolds, unless you know something i don't...... and thats certainly possible....
Lol
 
Maybe a dumb question.... but what is there to like about buying a 2000 dollar set of performance heads and bottling them up( and your performance gains in general) by not letting them breathe.
If the OP has to save up for headers thats understandable, but there is nothing to “ like” about having to use stock exhaust manifolds, unless you know something i don't...... and thats certainly possible....
Lol

Yes, I think it's great that someone made use of what they have at their disposal to get their car up and running..... It would be interesting to see the car put on a chassis dyno as it sits and then after the headers are installed. But it's still not really comparing apples to apples because the tune will change obviously......

In general, I'm glad someone actually installed a set and gave an opinion based on what they had prior to the TF's. And it gives a real world experience.

Just curious, how much is he leaving on the table without the headers in the current setup?

JW
 
Yes, I think it's great that someone made use of what they have at their disposal to get their car up and running..... It would be interesting to see the car put on a chassis dyno as it sits and then after the headers are installed. But it's still not really comparing apples to apples because the tune will change obviously......

In general, I'm glad someone actually installed a set and gave an opinion based on what they had prior to the TF's. And it gives a real world experience.

Just curious, how much is he leaving on the table without the headers in the current setup?

JW

I said in my post if he couldn't afford the headers abd has to wait, it is what it is. But thats not a “ likeable” situation, its having to put up with a less than desirable situation until you can fix it.
In short, i aint dogging the OP, was more dogging you...
Lol
Horsepower difference? Have to know more about what he has going on..... but lots
 
I said in my post if he couldn't afford the headers abd has to wait, it is what it is. But thats not a “ likeable” situation, its having to put up with a less than desirable situation until you can fix it.
In short, i aint dogging the OP, was more dogging you...
Lol
Horsepower difference? Have to know more about what he has going on..... but lots

Yeah, I get it..... You're not nice...... And it just hurts..... Maybe manifolds will be the new black. Seriously, why are you even in this conversation? Are you using these heads and obtaining information to help your build along?

2 ***** given and good luck in life......

JW
 
Yeah, I get it..... You're not nice...... And it just hurts..... Maybe manifolds will be the new black. Seriously, why are you even in this conversation? Are you using these heads and obtaining information to help your build along?

2 ***** given and good luck in life......

JW

No, you just made what i thought was a dumb comment. Anybody who is making any amount of power at all( and with a ported aluminum head your goal certainly must be to do so) realizes running stock exhaust manifolds isn't something worth liking.
Yes, i do plan to use a set of these heads in the future. I have what will be( with those heads) about a 12.7 to 1 418 shortblock built for them. Health forces me to run my current combo another race season. I was actually #2 on the planet to get a set when they became available. I gave a guy on here my spot. Dont need any help figuring out what to do with them. Already done all the research
And i actualiy am very nice. Just really dumb stuff needs called out.
 
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