Cam/Head Swap Disaster.......

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xLURKxDOGx

xLURKxDOGx

"An angel fat, at satan's feast"
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Well, I as far as I can see I took all the correct avenues while disassembling and reassembling the engine after I wiped a lobe on the previous cam.

I swapped in a used set of late 70’s 360 1.88/1.60 heads with new seals, springs and retainers and lapped the valves. Went to break it in 20 minutes ago and started spraying milky fluid out of the oil filter or should I say through the rubber o ring. I stopped it immediately and I’m now faced with a perplexing situation. What would cause water to leak into the engine before it’s even started? And what would cause so much pressure that it pushes by the oil filter seal??

I had filled the radiator up last night and it wasn’t until all this happened did I realize when I went to open the cap today that it was empty. I filled it up not thinking that it could have been an issue. The only things I replaced were the heads, cam and head gaskets. I used a set of NOS .024 head gasket lightly sprayed with copper seal. I’m bumming hard on this and really have no clue where to look. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jake
 
Only things I can think of are the intake not sealing on the manifold water port section.
 
Timing cover gasket issue? If you had the cam out, you had it off. Remember, coolant passes through it on the way to the pump and if the cover to block gasket was omitted or the old one not fully cleaned off, water could leak into the sump. Years ago I worked on one that the cover eroded to the point there was a pinhole allowing water in.
 
I would "guess" either intake manifold or timing cover sealing issue. Or both. Tell us about the heads. Rebuilt I assume? Have they been pressure tested or magnafluxed?

Lastly,WHAT engine are you working on here?
 
RustyRatRod said:
I would "guess" either intake manifold or timing cover sealing issue. Or both. Tell us about the heads. Rebuilt I assume? Have they been pressure tested or magnafluxed?

Lastly,WHAT engine are you working on here?
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This is on a 360 in my d100. The heads were bought from a member here, though I didn’t do more that completely strip them, inspect and replace accordingly. I had the intake milled to cleaned up as as well as the heads. Everything lined up fine, no struggle on that. I’m just really confused because the radiator still has water in it because it didn’t get hot enough to open the thermostat.

Jake
 
Correct bolts in the timing cover? Too long of bolt will punch a hole. Cant remember which bolt Jake.
RTV on the timing cover bolts?
Good luck. I dont have 360 stuff, but if I can help with parts lemme know.
 
xLURKxDOGx said:
This is on a 360 in my d100. The heads were bought from a member here, though I didn’t do more that completely strip them, inspect and replace accordingly. I had the intake milled to cleaned up as as well as the heads. Everything lined up fine, no struggle on that. I’m just really confused because the radiator still has water in it because it didn’t get hot enough to open the thermostat.

Jake
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Ok, WHERE is the water in the radiator? At what LEVEL? What's the water even with on the engine? That will give you a clue where the leak might be. If it's intake level, that might be a good thing.
 
"I had the intake milled to cleaned up as as well as the heads." Did you mill the end seal area as well to provide the proper space for the end seals? (If you used RTV sealant this is a non-issue) If you took enough off the port flanges and heads, I have see them not seal as the end seals are then too thick to allow the intake to sit low enough for the flange to seal against the heads.
 
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RustyRatRod said:
Ok, WHERE is the water in the radiator? At what LEVEL? What's the water even with on the engine? That will give you a clue where the leak might be. If it's intake level, that might be a good thing.
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This was maybe 45 seconds to minute and this was what was pushing by the oil filter. What would cause pressure high enough to do that? And the water is about 1/8 high from the bottom at the cap. And water is still slowly dripping from the oil pan

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4spdragtop said:
Correct bolts in the timing cover? Too long of bolt will punch a hole. Cant remember which bolt Jake.
RTV on the timing cover bolts?
Good luck. I dont have 360 stuff, but if I can help with parts lemme know.
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Steve, it was all good minus the cam before so I’m pretty sure they’re the correct length. I appreciate your help.

Jake
 
I had a shop machine my cylinder heads to accommodate Isky dual valve springs. I kept filling the radiator with more and more water/coolant but never saw it in the filler neck. Found it filling the oil pan after one of the valve springs broke through the water jacket. Back to the drawing board.
 
Woah! I am feeling your pain on this one... Drain ALL the remaining coolant, including the side plugs of the block, and the oil. Flush the crankcase out with whatever you can get to get as much water as possible out of it, and get just enough fresh oil and a filter onto it to run a compression test without seizing it up. This will at least give you a starting point to go from during the diagnosis.
 
So is whatever is showing on the dipstick that same milky color?
At disassembly, is there any possibility that you loosened the intake, head, or TC bolts, and walked away for a while, letting water seep around the gaskets and down into the engine? Any oil change while re-assembling?

If the water is not going down in the rad, then it seems unlikely that you presently have a leak, or it is very slow. Maybe it IS a very slow leak, and the overnight setting did it.

Not sure what to say on the milky oil coming out past the oil filter seal. It takes over 100-120 psi to push those open, unless you just left it a bit loose.

What was done in the process of milling the intake, how much was removed, and why?

IMHO, it has to start coming apart. The timing bolt issue could be possible if one got swapped; it cracks a hole in the #1 cylinder
 
Garrett Ellison said:
Woah! I am feeling your pain on this one... Drain ALL the remaining coolant, including the side plugs of the block, and the oil. Flush the crankcase out with whatever you can get to get as much water as possible out of it, and get just enough fresh oil and a filter onto it to run a compression test without seizing it up. This will at least give you a starting point to go from during the diagnosis.
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It ran strong for 45 seconds and was a fresh engine before cam issue. To be honest, the water issue is secondary to the high pressure blowing out the oil filter. And actually, I did pull the oil pump and put a new/used one on since I found some bits of cam in the pump. Could a relieve valve spring on the pump cause this sort of problem? Thanks
 
xLURKxDOGx said:
It ran strong for 45 seconds and was a fresh engine before cam issue. To be honest, the water issue is secondary to the high pressure blowing out the oil filter. And actually, I did pull the oil pump and put a new/used one on since I found some bits of cam in the pump. Could a relieve valve spring on the pump cause this sort of problem? Thanks
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No it's not secondary. It's most likely the same issue. If water and oil occupy the same space at the same time in the oiling system, the pressure will go up. Water cannot be compressed. Oil has some compressability (is that even a word?) compared to water.
 
nm9stheham said:
So is whatever is showing on the dipstick that same milky color?
At disassembly, is there any possibility that you loosened the intake, head, or TC bolts, and walked away for a while, letting water seep around the gaskets and down into the engine? Any oil change while re-assembling?

If the water is not going down in the rad, then it seems unlikely that you presently have a leak, or it is very slow. Maybe it IS a very slow leak, and the overnight setting did it.

Not sure what to say on the milky oil coming out past the oil filter seal. It takes over 100-120 psi to push those open, unless you just left it a bit loose.

What was done in the process of milling the intake, how much was removed, and why?

IMHO, it has to start coming apart. The timing bolt issue could be possible if one got swapped; it cracks a hole in the #1 cylinder
Click to expand...
Would it hurt to run atf through it to clean it out for a minute or two?? I believe that the water is coming from the intake manifold so I want to drain all water and run the atf to see if it’s still blowing the oil out the gasket
 
If and when you tear down Jake, make sure to note bolt locations, which holes are wet vs dry etc.
Also as RRR mentioned the oil mixing with coolant may be the cause of it coming out past filter?
 
"If it was mine" what I would do at this point is run a pressure test on the cooling system with the spark plugs out.
 
I was going to mention the oil and water will cause a big pressure increase and spiking. I would pull and check the oil pump drive to make sure it didn’t twist or round off. Whenever combatting water in a crank case, I would flush everything with diesel fuel and follow up with a flush of the cheapest motor oil accessible. If you’re going to have the intake off, I would go ahead and get some more break in lube on the cam and lifters. When adding fresh oil for the run in, get a blue bottle of STP in there, those bottom end bearings are going to need a lot of extra help. I am hoping for the best, but I am afraid the odds are stacked against you on the main and rod bearings. Babbitt and antifreeze really don’t play together too well to start with, and the loss of oil pressure out of the filter gasket is worrisome. I’ll admit that at one time, I would try flushing everything and trying my luck. But as experience teaches me more and more, I would go ahead and pull the engine and give everything a thorough cleaning and change the main and rod bearings. If the bottom end starts getting ground into shavings and going through the oil system, it is going to be a whole lot more expensive than just a set of bearings to repair. But that’s going to depend more on your initial investment and if it’s cheaper to rebuild or to come up with another engine to put in...
 
Rusty nailed it. Would be first thing I’d do. The box store auto stores may have the pressure tester for the cooling system on their loan a tool.
 
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