But Rusty is Right on this one, pressure test the dry cooling system and see where air is leaking to. Pinpoint your leak before proceeding.
Cam/Head Swap Disaster.......
- Thread starter xLURKxDOGx
- Start date
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Sorry to read of engine troubles Jake....Ugh 
I have a coolant pressure testing kit if you want to borrow it.
I have a coolant pressure testing kit if you want to borrow it.
OK, so more than cam, heads and intake were worked on right before this happened? To your question, can a relief valve spring cause an oil filter gasket to blow out? Yup, absolutely. If the relief shuttle sticks closed, if it's shimmed too much or the spring rate is too high, oil pressure will not be regulated and the oiling system will see full pressure. In theory, the pump could provide pressure into the hundreds of pounds if the relief valve doesn't function.
As to the point of the water causing higher pressure, water is zero viscosity (Edit: I just checked the graphs, at 90 degrees F, it would have a viscosity of about .2, slightly above 0) so, all things being equal, it "should" have lower pressure in an oiling system as it would leak down quicker. (Not that you can substitute water for oil) The other aspect is that all fluids are incompressible, they function as a solid in a closed system. Oil does not compress, if it did, hydraulic systems in presses, jacks and front end loaders would not function.
Tom
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Had the same problem earlier this year....timing chain cover was put on with just a gasket no RTV...I never use just the gasket...and I had a pan full of water just sitting there..
Removed cover and used only Rtv....as i normally do...no leak...
Removed cover and used only Rtv....as i normally do...no leak...
I was going to add that while water has zero viscosity, that mayonnaise sludge mixture of oil and water, has no lubricity. Put it under pressure though and it takes on the consistency of jello.
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xLURKxDOGx
"An angel fat, at satan's feast"
Well, I had a hunch that after all this talk about the intake water passage not sealing I decided to test it since there was drips still coming out of the pan I pulled all the water out of the intake and the drip stopped immediately. Now, I’m going to pull it out tomorrow because I believe now that the oil pump switch was wrong but my fear at the time about finding car pieces in there were legit. I should have inspected it closer and maybe it would have been something I would have caught. The machine shop i took it too had the wrong amount to take off on there but promised that they did it to the correct number which was .015. I believe I can get a thick intake gasket to resolve this issue because it’s going to be hard to find another LD340 for 125$. Thanks to everyone for their experience and insight. I’ll check back with pictures in the coming days, also, I used straight water and no coolant so hopefully that will have payed off in the long run.
Jake
I feel for u buddy, that much water won’t be good for the cam either. U may have to pull it also. Kim
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xLURKxDOGx
"An angel fat, at satan's feast"
Look at it this way, Jake. It appears you've caught it before any hard parts were hurt. DIsassemble what you feel is necessary and seal it up good. You might be ok.
FWIW, "I" would remove the timing cover as well and seal heck out of it too. That way, you could check for that bolt that might be in the "way wrong" place.
FWIW, "I" would remove the timing cover as well and seal heck out of it too. That way, you could check for that bolt that might be in the "way wrong" place.
jeffnmo
Just another Mopar Maniac
I've said it before and I'll say it again, This site and 99.9% of the folks on it are FREAKIN' AWESOME.
Jeff
Jeff
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
To get the water out of the oil passages and engine, I would:
BTW, just a thought on the pressure blowing past the filter seal: if the water in the oil got heated enough in the pumping process, it might turn to steam and then the pressure out of the pump and into the filter would shoot way up. I personally would just assume that some odd process like this occurred and getting the water out will fix it. When you prime it next time, then make sure you have a mechanical oil pressure gauge installed; that may tell you if the relief valve is stuck closed, if the drill can spin the pump fast enough. It ought to relieve pressure around either 55 or 72 psi. If the pressure is way high, then you can take off the pan and look into the pump, but a stuck relief valve is not common.
Aren't cars fun !??!
- Pout 91% isopropol alcohol down through the valley openings and the heads to clean out the pan as much as you can. Alcohol will absorb some of the water and is cheap. Then follow with a diesel fuel flush in the same fashion to clear out the alcohol, and put in some lubricant for the next step.
- Put in a cheap very light weight oil, like a 5W-20
- Pull the distributor and run the pump with a drill for at lest 30-40 seconds
- Slowly turn the engine about 10 degrees at a time and run the drill 30-40 seconds at each stop. This is to get all the passages to line up and flow oil at some time in the rotation: head oil passages, crank passages, etc.
- Do this for 2 complete rotations of the crank
- It'll be tedious and very time consuming. And if it was me, I'd do this process TWICE with cheap oil.
- The one thing this will not get out is water in the lifters. So I'd pull them, tap them upside down on a block of wood to try to knock the cruddy water/oil mix out of them. Then relube the cam and lifters as part of this.
- If you kept your old cam and lifters in order, then I'd also be tempted to re-install it now as it is broken in, and you won't risk destroying the new cam as you get the last of the water out. Some stops in the new cam break-in process (to change oil again and again as described below) normally do not destroy the cam especially if the springs are not very heavy but it is still risky IMHO to keep the new cam in there.
- Fill with 10W30 and run that 5 minutes, then drain and refill and run for 10 minutes and drain, refill. I'd be changing oil pretty frequently for a while, watching for any milkiness in it.
BTW, just a thought on the pressure blowing past the filter seal: if the water in the oil got heated enough in the pumping process, it might turn to steam and then the pressure out of the pump and into the filter would shoot way up. I personally would just assume that some odd process like this occurred and getting the water out will fix it. When you prime it next time, then make sure you have a mechanical oil pressure gauge installed; that may tell you if the relief valve is stuck closed, if the drill can spin the pump fast enough. It ought to relieve pressure around either 55 or 72 psi. If the pressure is way high, then you can take off the pan and look into the pump, but a stuck relief valve is not common.
Aren't cars fun !??!
dibbons
Well-Known Member
I like investigative work. Don't do this just because I would, but this is so odd I would pull the motor and inspect everything, just out of curiosity.
That is some excellent advice on the water removal, I too was thinking non polarized (I.e. alcohol) for flushing. E98 fuel would work too. It’s not my decision and I understand time and cost constraints, but with all the possible problem areas you need to look at along with the time combined with labor intensity of getting the water out and front cover accessibility, I would consider pulling the engine and doing a partial tear down and spray out with alcohol and diesel with the pan off, valley open, and valve covers removed. But that’s just me, and I am really hoping for the best on this one. You may want to check out the Hughes racing engine site on the tech pages about intake manifold sealing too, but it sounds like you’ve got it pretty well diagnosed. I use lead from tire weights instead of wire wax to check clearances, but I do use that procedure.
stroker402
1968 dart GTS convertible
Years ago... I had a timing cover that had a rust hole in it . as soon as you start the engine it filled the crank with oil. These timing covers were prone to rotting.
j par
Well-hung Member
****!
j par
Well-hung Member
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
only on freshly machined surfaces can you get away with a good spray of copper coat on both sides.
Then again what was used to clean the surfaces that could also cause an issue when trying to use the steel shim and some copper coat. You would have had to use some RTV around each water port on both sides if you didn't machine anything and then cross your fingers.
If you used too little rtv on the intake water cross overs "aka 4 corners" or the manifold is creating an A shape gap....it will leak into the engine. Front cover leaking is rare... but if the block was corroded around the water passages and not enough or any rtv was used, sure it will leak. Always rtv the threads of the long water pump/front cover bolts or they can weap around the head. Honestly I've seen worse have the oil changed and live a long life. Roll of the dice, your throw ..
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
If you have too.... glue 2 intake gaskets together for each side.. Gaskasinch, permanent Tex in a can works.
xLURKxDOGx
"An angel fat, at satan's feast"
Block was machined as well as the heads, cleaned it all up with degreaser. Ports were good, not deterioration of any sort and I rtv the corners like I had before without issue. I believe i found the issues but as I got it out this morning I’m wondering if that high pressure caused a leak in the head gaskets since I noticed a leak running down the block.
Jake
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
I think 14-16 lbs is plenty to test.
Bummer if so.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
No pressure will build in 45 seconds to 1 minute of running in the cooling system. So any pressure would have to come from the oil system but that one seems hard to do, unless there is a crack between oil system and cooling jacket.
So if there are leaks, then it is more likely the gaskets, or something in the surfaces is not right. But the latter seems unlikely if the heads and blocks were machined. Did you use standard head bolt torque and tighten them in 2-3 stages?
So if there are leaks, then it is more likely the gaskets, or something in the surfaces is not right. But the latter seems unlikely if the heads and blocks were machined. Did you use standard head bolt torque and tighten them in 2-3 stages?
I would have already had it splattered all over the work bench.
Just a dumbass question but are you sure you put the head gaskets in right side up?
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