318 timing chain.....and why the engine should come out.

Lol.....
If anyone has a cheap used cam and lifters around the 250-260 range I’d be interested.....

I feel much better.
The engine i cleaned up for the barracuda showed little signs of wear. I have a feeling it was either rebuilt or was a factory replacement engine.
Then i acquired a second engine. It was near identical as my first one. I swapped cranks between the 2. Picked the best parts to make 1.

Still a low budget runner,taking necessary steps to make your engine last.

Sometimes those old low or no budge engine come out real good. They're always looser than a fresh engine. SO with fresh rings, bearings and a little hotter cam, with a 4 barrel and headers, they'll be snappier since they're loose. They always make good little street engines.

Would you put fresh rings in this thing. I was just gonna put the old ones back in. I’ve never done that before though.

glhx said:

Would you put fresh rings in this thing. I was just gonna put the old ones back in. I’ve never done that before though.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. Moly rings. Hone it with a 320-400 dingleberry hone.

absolutely new rings even if the budget limits to cast iron rings- or at least inspect each used ring for wear across the face- taper MUST still be there as well as barrel not worn all the way across - by the time you take them out to clean the ring lands- and break one- well new rings would save a lot of time
on the mollies do a fine finish if you have access to a fine brush hone after your hone coarse
you can get a elgin or similar "engine builders" new cam and lifters for less than that budget
or get a regrind and new or refaced lifters I 'd stick in a used cam only if it was mine on the shelf already and I knew the history

The taper is gone on the rings.....but they are really clean on the lands......at least as I can see. I can get a picture.

The engine pulled 20 vacuum and had decent compression.
The cylinders have the lines on them from all the garbage that was run through the engine.

I’m sitting here tossing around both. Honing and re-ring or just putting them back in there as they didn’t smoke.

If I do put them back in there.....will it be as if I never took them out or will it be one of those things where I disturbed something and the engine is gonna smoke like hell??? I will probably drive this car maybe 1000 miles in the next 5 years. If it stays not smoking between now and then it’s fine.

I found one bad valve leaking pretty bad. The heads needed to come off.

The engine I want to build is sitting in the garage. I like the 68 block better than the 72. I think the metal is better but I really don’t know. It's what ive heard.

The 76 block has thinner cast walls and can’t be bored out far before it becomes a yard block.

The 68 motor is basically in ruin right now. It had a bent push rod and smoked a little so I never ran it. That and it has soft valve seats.

If I was putting a bunch of money into one it would be that one.
......however....
Off topic....
The machine work for a 340 is just as much as it is for a 318 and they go up in value when they are done right. The 318 gets no respect.

I will say this....the subject.....timing chain and why the engine should come out was right on. At least in my case. That chain did a lot of wear and tear.

You'll never know till you do it. BUT, if you put a good dingleberry hone on it with new rings, it for sure will not smoke. One way it might, one way it won't. I mean, you've torn it down this far. New rings, bearings, oil pump, timing set and camshaft (with matching springs) and lifters would be in my budget at this point. I know I just rattled off a lot of your money, but all that stuff at this point would be required if I was doing it. You don't want to have to pull it right back down, right?

I agree with RRR, you've past the point of just cleaning it. Can you find a rebuild kit like PAW that will have everything you need? Then pick your best set of heads, hone the cylinders.
If you plan on running it for five more years.

I definitely don’t want to pull it back apart. ....but really it isn’t too bad of a job. Took two hours to get it out....and that was taking my time and in a dirty oil covered environment. Put it on the stand and it comes apart very quick, but I’ve done it several times so it’s easier than it used to be

I talked to the machine shop guy today. Mopar guy as well

He told me that based on how much I drive it and what I’m doing. That I should just put the original parts back in and not mess with anything else. He told me to not home it with the original rings in there....which I wouldn’t.

He told me that with new cast iron rings with a hone would conform pretty quickly but wouldn’t be worth messing with. He told me that it would be better than what I have now but since I wasn’t going all out, then I shouldn’t even worry about it.

Said the original rings should be put back in close to the same way they came out and will rotate until they get to the sweet spot where they usually live in that horse shoe shape of wear.

As for the bearings. Since I’m not doing the crank. He said that the aluminum bearings will not conform to the crank very well and that I should run the tri metal that will create a wear patter out of the soft Babbitt.

When I told him I had already bought aluminum bearings he said that they would wear down the crank and the bearing....but for my driving habits it would also be fine as I just don’t drive it much. I asked him if it would spin the bearing....no.....it just wears quick on both ends.....Also said it would be even with all this wear......that it would be better than what was in there and that these engines were really meant to go 150k and be done.

He said that when I do the other 318 I should consider a 340 as the machine work cost the same as well as that I can put better technology bearings and rings In There to make it last a long time....less spring pressure on the rings with softer materials that leave the cross hatch on the bore.

He did say that the oil in these older engines did need to be changed regularly due to the harder materials and the amount of wear in the older stuff.

I kept my oil changed but it got black pretty quick......we all saw what was in there so that’s no surprise.
With a really clean engine....which it is now very very clean. I’ll pay attention to the oil as well as change it every year or 3k

..................

So I’m just gonna put the pistons back in....
Run the aluminum bearings ......
And rev the hell out of it......
Do a compression test.....
Keep the oil checked.....
And run it

Just kidding about the revving part.

I’ll report back and let you know if anything catastrophic come of this or how it all goes...

I’m totally well aware of how half assed this is and what the outcome could be but I think it will be good to go and better than when I found it. We will see

Also.....I have a line on a HE268 cam and lifters.....so tempted together this and run it. The price is right but i dont an e a stall or gears. I think the spec are 218/218@50
A nice 3.55 gear might go well with this with a 2500 stall or a 4 speed....but there goes highway driving.

And the range is 1500-5500......

It’s tempting

1000 miles in the next 5 years? I would not put in new rings. (I would not have gone past replacing the chain for that.) Since you have not measured bores for wear, taper, or out-of-roundness, and have not checked piston groove wear, it is an unknown if will smoke or not with the present rings or even new rings and a hone. I'll disagree a bit with others: The probability that it will not smoke goes up with the new rings and hone, but you really don't know what you have for component wear and condition, so no one can tell you the result with 100% certainty. It just takes one badly worn spot...

B'cuda said:

I agree with RRR, you've past the point of just cleaning it. Can you find a rebuild kit like PAW that will have everything you need? Then pick your best set of heads, hone the cylinders.
If you plan on running it for five more years.

Click to expand...

I’m goin got do that....but not with this block. The older 68 block will be a better candidate for that. Even that block being worn out. It’s in about the same shape as this one.....it could even be run the way it sits with a slight refresh. I didn’t because of the heads not having hardened seats.

It does have more compression.....and quite a bit more power....250 I think.
But I don’t remember if that’s the heads or the pistons sitting higher in the block. Either way it’s like 9:1 and would be a good candidate for that 268 cam.

Could always put lead additive in I guess and throw a pushrod in there. It’s been sitting in grease for years. But when I looked at it the other day it was in the same shape as when I got it. I covered the insides with bearing grease


With this engine ....I couldn’t ....not take it down. It was so dirty inside and clogged up that all that garbage would have been really hard to get out otherwise. It would have dislodged all the sludge and hardened fuel particles and made it way worse rather quickly. I do regret going now this far into it but at least I know where it stands and what’s been done to it for some peace of mind.

glhx said:

With this engine ....I couldn’t ....not take it down. It was so dirty inside and clogged up that all that garbage would have been really hard to get out otherwise. It would have dislodged all the sludge and hardened fuel particles and made it way worse rather quickly. I do regret going now this far into it but at least I know where it stands and what’s been done to it for some peace of mind.

Click to expand...

OK, makes sense. I could stand some some smoke for 200 miles per year LOL. I had a '71 Toyota Celica that burned a qt of oil every 100 miles..... did not smoke while cruising.....just slowly burned the oil out. Ran it for a couple of years and then gave it to my sister-in-law to commute 60 miles per day to college for a couple of years LOL

I like the the Celica of those years. They remind me of the Datsun sunny. They run forever....sort of. You don’t see them which means they don’t run forever. They are a pretty cool car. Something about a compacts that has the late 60s early 70s lines seems cool. Add a straight six or a turbo on them and they are just fun little cars.

I caught the lightweight fun factor when I got into my first Omni GLH. since then I’ve settled into lightweight and slightly built for the fun factor. The faster cars I’ve had over the years just seemed too much.....the small Japanese cars and even the Miata today has that hands down.
They are really built for the corners and canyon runs. Not too powerful and all the work is done in the suspension.....which also makes them good daily drivers....excellent little cars.

And when they are worn out that far....you really don’t have the worry about them getting trashed a little more. I don’t like how beat up my paint job looks but I do like that I can set a wrench down on the fender or add stuff with a grinder and not care

ask NM to run the numbers for you
but no way would I put a 268 cam in that build even if it was free
maybe a 256
you doing a valve job because of that bad valve?

The most I really want is a 262.
I haven’t gotten the heads taken apart yet. I cleaned them and painted them first so I wouldnt have to redo it after mild porting and messing with that valve.

I did a water test and it went right through so I know it’s not sealing. It has seated and isn’t burned up.

What I think I’ll do is lap it until it seals. For this particular build it should be fine. I’ll go slow until it seats better. Just enough.
If it’s screwed.....I’ll put a new valve in and seat that one to the original seat.

The 268 cam is way too much. The 256 cam sounds stock..might as well leave the 240 cam in there. I think I’m gonna stick with the stock one unless someone has a cheap 250-260 cam laying around. Doesn’t even have to have lifters.

I’d like a little sound to it and some low end is worth that. But not 268 low end sacrifice.

I’d run a 256 or so if I could get my hands on one just for the extra to run with the port and headers as opposed to the 240 stock cam but it might not be in the cards.

I have to do the transmission overhaul next and that’s killed the budget. It needed a torque converter and the front bushing so I’m just gonna throw a rebuild kit in there and hope nothing else is shot. I’m sure the clutch material could use some replacing. It’s 43 years old. Gonna wait to buy the kit until I get in there but the motor comes first. I’m not really a multitasker no matter how much I want to be.

256 from lunati, howards mopar grainds , bullet or best Mike Jone is way bigger than stock
Example Jones 256 is bigger than the MP 260 (which is measured at more like .006- at higher lifts but shorter seat to seat
dont buy a cam on how it sounds or you will end up with whiplash
buy on the torque curve
But not 268 low end sacrifice.... you got it

I wonder about the @50 number

I’ve seen cams with a smaller @50 and a larger advertised duration and it makes no sense

I was taught that the @50 was to accurately compare cams from many companies.

But then I see a lot of mixed up stuff.
A 262 with 218/224

Then see the he268 with 218/218

And I think the k6900
With like an advertised 285
But he @50 is much lower than even the 262.

Which cam is bigger?

glhx said:

I wonder about the @50 number

I’ve seen cams with a smaller @50 and a larger advertised duration and it makes no sense

I was taught that the @50 was to accurately compare cams from many companies.

But then I see a lot of mixed up stuff.
A 262 with 218/224

Then see the he268 with 218/218

And I think the k6900
With like an advertised 285
But he @50 is much lower than even the 262.

Which cam is bigger?

Click to expand...

That tells you the steepness of the ramps. Less advertised duration with more duration at .050" means steeper ramps on the cam lobes which opens and closes the valves quicker. Modern performance cam designs use faster ramps, old-school cams (like the older Mopar Purple Shafts) use slow ramps. Others can chime in regarding how that affects performance I'm not super knowledgeable in that realm.

I saw this today and thought of the OP.... this would have been a lot cheaper and faster:
Vintage MOTALOY Ring & Valve Job Tabs In Original Boxes Store Display Box | eBay

glhx said:

I wonder about the @50 number

I’ve seen cams with a smaller @50 and a larger advertised duration and it makes no sense

I was taught that the @50 was to accurately compare cams from many companies.

But then I see a lot of mixed up stuff.
A 262 with 218/224

Then see the he268 with 218/218

And I think the k6900
With like an advertised 285
But he @50 is much lower than even the 262.

Which cam is bigger?

Click to expand...

It depends on how the cam is ground. How "fast" the ramp is. I like slower, old school ramps on a street car because you'r not beating the valve open and slamming it shut. Much easier on the valve train, also much quieter. I've seen time and again people recommend a fast, slick camshaft and someone buy it only to complain about how loud the valve train is.

MopaR&D said:

That tells you the steepness of the ramps. Less advertised duration with more duration at .050" means steeper ramps on the cam lobes which opens and closes the valves quicker. Modern performance cam designs use faster ramps, old-school cams (like the older Mopar Purple Shafts) use slow ramps. Others can chime in regarding how that affects performance I'm not super knowledgeable in that realm.

Click to expand...

That now makes perfect sense.
And your right....how it affects the performance doesn’t make sense but it shows the direction I can go if I want to find out.

I figured a 285 was a 285
And a 268 was a 268

Except that 285 increases low end torque.....and the 268 robs it.
It’s contrary to what I’ve always understood. I’ve usually stuck with a stock cam as I never need much power and really drive these on the highway in town like a grocery getter that they are.

The 318 sits on a fine line of cam selection. Too much and it’s no fun


..........is that an original set of rings from back in the day in the original boxes? Back then was a better time. I’d trade cell phones and the internet for it any day

"Except that 285 increases low end torque.....and the 268 robs it."
better edit the above post- you got it backward or did you mean 258

The 318 sits on a fine line of cam selection. Too much and it’s no fun-- exactly- andwith any motor

FWIW I had good results with the Lunati Voodoo 256/262 adv. duration cam in a stock 318. Not as cheap as a Summit etc. cam but IMO worth the money for a better profile. I do know the faster-ramp cams make more area under the power curve (broad torque band). The valves overall aren't open much longer but they spend more time at higher lift off the seat so you get more air/fuel into the cylinders for a given duration.

Wyrmrider said:

"Except that 285 increases low end torque.....and the 268 robs it."
better edit the above post- you got it backward or did you mean 258

The 318 sits on a fine line of cam selection. Too much and it’s no fun-- exactly- andwith any motor

Click to expand...

It wasn’t 285 like I thought. It was 278/288

But this is what I mean......
Why is a cam advertised way above a 262 or even a 268. Increasing low end torque

K6900 cam-