Best suspension options???

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famous bob said:
Cause ur threads are so jackable ! LOL
Well not really, usually full of well founded info--------------
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RogerRamRod said:
And it would be easier if we founded all the info on one thread
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Caltracs are drag racing gear. They are designed to hook, and only to hook, with little or no consideration for ride quality. I'm not a drag race guy, and even I've read enough about the Caltracs to know that very few people enjoy running them on the street. Strip is a different story, but on the street I think you'll find the consensus is they ride really harsh. And that shouldn't be a surprise, because they're designed to hook. The more you set your suspension up for drag racing, the worse your ride quality will be on the street. A loose front end and really stiff rear suspension may be great for going fast in a straight line, but it's terrible for anything else.

As for putting it all in one thread, good luck. There are several threads that have a ton of information. I know I've posted that "recipe" for a good handling car at least a dozen times now and there are tons of great threads by others like autoxcuda that went into making up that list. But what makes a good suspension set up changes with how the car is used, and especially with what tires are used. Suspension has to match the the grip level and intended use of the car. What makes a good street cruiser will be different from what makes a good corner carver, which will be different again from an all-out autoX car. And what makes for a good 1/4 mile car will be completely different.
 
I was only kidding about 1 thread with all the info. That’d be like 1 thread with all the engine info.
 
72bluNblu said:
Caltracs are drag racing gear. They are designed to hook, and only to hook, with little or no consideration for ride quality. I'm not a drag race guy, and even I've read enough about the Caltracs to know that very few people enjoy running them on the street. Strip is a different story, but on the street I think you'll find the consensus is they ride really harsh. And that shouldn't be a surprise, because they're designed to hook. The more you set your suspension up for drag racing, the worse your ride quality will be on the street. A loose front end and really stiff rear suspension may be great for going fast in a straight line, but it's terrible for anything else.

As for putting it all in one thread, good luck. There are several threads that have a ton of information. I know I've posted that "recipe" for a good handling car at least a dozen times now and there are tons of great threads by others like autoxcuda that went into making up that list. But what makes a good suspension set up changes with how the car is used, and especially with what tires are used. Suspension has to match the the grip level and intended use of the car. What makes a good street cruiser will be different from what makes a good corner carver, which will be different again from an all-out autoX car. And what makes for a good 1/4 mile car will be completely different.
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Agree, but want to have my cake and eat it too ! Think my s/s springs would ride better than the caltracs, they weren`t that bad on my other cars. ???
 
When I decided to bring the handling of my 1967 Barracuda into this century, I needed advice, and wanted to buy everything from the same place to increase the probability that all the parts and pieces would work and fit together. I did a lot of reading on this forum, then made a call to James from PST. (He is also a forum member). He helped me dial-in my parts list with no pressure to buy higher-end parts than necessary. I bought everything from him, and got the forum member discount: 1.03 torsion bars, tubular upper control arms, boxed lowers, shocks, front and rear anti sway bars, quick-ratio steering box and 4-wheel disk brakes. All went together without a hitch, and James was happy to answer questions during the build. I don't have a lot of miles yet, but the purchase and install was very straightforward.
 
OriginalDart said:
Hey guys I'm back after a long hiatus. Randy over at logestein racing built me a very nice 440 so it's time to pull the dart out of storage and get it ready for it's heart transplant. I've decided to opt out of a slick coil over setup. I was looking at the rms alterkation but I don't have 5k to drop.
I was going to order the hotchkis tvs for now. My budget is right around 2.5k - 3k. This kit doesn't include the bigger torsion bars.
So my questions are:

1. What are other companies that make good suspension kits around my budget?
2. Who makes the best torsion bars on the market?
3. Aside from wilwood, what are other brake upgrade options?

The car is a base model 273 dart. 1969
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Pretty easy to upgrade the suspension these days. I'd recommend Doctor Diff for brakes, Hellwig anti-sway bar, Firm Feel upper control arms and a high quality shock. Bilstein or Koni. Put a good wheel and tire combo on there and you'll be ready to go.
DSC_3613 (Large).JPG
 
My 68 Barracuda has the RMS front suspension with a power Rack and Pinion and Wilwood Disc brakes. One big advantage with a coil over front is header/exhaust clearance.
 
Kern Dog said:
Corrected for accuracy.
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I have the coil over, no torsion bars and 4 wheel disc brakes already, just not happy w/ the rear end bounciness now. Not ready to give up on getting traction tho, aint had much yet, due partly to the past front end stiffness.
 
I agree the list @72bluNblu made is really good. I have the majority of that stuff on my 68 Dart. It’s a hodgepodge from quality vendors like Hellwig, PST, Bilstein, Borgeson, QA1 etc. My goal is a fun street car with occasional spirited driving.

Things to do still are the sub frame connectors. Later I may add the solid tie-rod sleeves and boxed LCAs if I feel like doing it. Haven’t decided yet on a rear sway bar. Would like to hear more about how much it improves the handling overall.

With the 1.03” torsion bars which lower bump stop to get? I still have all the stock bump stops on and haven’t gotten around to changing them out. I’m thinking the 1” tall for Energy Suspension would work since my car’s ride height isn’t dropped like your @72bluNblu, but I would like to lower it a touch. I’d get the same upper ones you suggested in your link.

Got any good pics of your setup @72bluNblu you can post in this thread? Thx
 
daves66valiant said:
I agree the list @72bluNblu made is really good. I have the majority of that stuff on my 68 Dart. It’s a hodgepodge from quality vendors like Hellwig, PST, Bilstein, Borgeson, QA1 etc. My goal is a fun street car with occasional spirited driving.

Things to do still are the sub frame connectors. Later I may add the solid tie-rod sleeves and boxed LCAs if I feel like doing it. Haven’t decided yet on a rear sway bar. Would like to hear more about how much it improves the handling overall.

With the 1.03” torsion bars which lower bump stop to get? I still have all the stock bump stops on and haven’t gotten around to changing them out. I’m thinking the 1” tall for Energy Suspension would work since my car’s ride height isn’t dropped like your @72bluNblu, but I would like to lower it a touch. I’d get the same upper ones you suggested in your link.

Got any good pics of your setup @72bluNblu you can post in this thread? Thx
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With the lower bump stops it’ll depend on how much you lower the car. With my car I have about 1” of travel between the LCA and the bumpstop, but my 1.12” bars have a 300 lb/in wheel rate. With 1.03’s I think you’d want a good 1.5” of clearance at least to keep from bottoming out all the time, so a 1” tall bumpstop might be too much. Energy suspension makes a button style bumpstop that’s .687”, that would give you more cushion than the .375” tall ones I run but will still leave you some travel.

Energy Suspension Bump Stops 9.9102G


This is my set up, the bump stops are on the frame because I have an earlier set of the QA1 LCA’s. I also run a spacer under the upper bump stops, you shouldn’t need that unless you lower the car substantially with the 1.03’s. That upper bump stop may be on the tall side for you as it is, you might want to check that you get enough extension. All you’re trying to do with the taller upper stop is keep the adjuster bolt from coming off the LCA lever at full extension. This picture is at full extension not ride height.

img_4412-jpg.jpg
 
72bluNblu said:
With the lower bump stops it’ll depend on how much you lower the car. With my car I have about 1” of travel between the LCA and the bumpstop, but my 1.12” bars have a 300 lb/in wheel rate. With 1.03’s I think you’d want a good 1.5” of clearance at least to keep from bottoming out all the time, so a 1” tall bumpstop might be too much. Energy suspension makes a button style bumpstop that’s .687”, that would give you more cushion than the .375” tall ones I run but will still leave you some travel.

Energy Suspension Bump Stops 9.9102G


This is my set up, the bump stops are on the frame because I have an earlier set of the QA1 LCA’s. I also run a spacer under the upper bump stops, you shouldn’t need that unless you lower the car substantially with the 1.03’s. That upper bump stop may be on the tall side for you as it is, you might want to check that you get enough extension. All you’re trying to do with the taller upper stop is keep the adjuster bolt from coming off the LCA lever at full extension. This picture is at full extension not ride height.

View attachment 1715351201
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I need a pair of 2" bump stops for the bottom on mine. Prefer the round ones, any idea of where to get them, or part numbers ? / good price of course .
 
Knowing what the purpose of this car sure would help.
As far as I can see, the op never mentioned what he was planning on doing with it. Street, Strip,Canyon, Grocerys.
Until then, you are all pissing in the wind.
 
Johnny Dart said:
Knowing what the purpose of this car sure would help.
As far as I can see, the op never mentioned what he was planning on doing with it. Street, Strip,Canyon, Grocerys.
Until then, you are all pissing in the wind.
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since he listed hotchkis tvs, i assumed good handling street / possibly occasional track day car. not too windy here today :)
 
Johnny Dart said:
Knowing what the purpose of this car sure would help.
As far as I can see, the op never mentioned what he was planning on doing with it. Street, Strip,Canyon, Grocerys.
Until then, you are all pissing in the wind.
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Swing and a miss. Alterkation to Hotchkis TVS? Pretty obvious what the OP has in mind.

Besides, at least the rest of us are trying to help.
 
RogerRamRod said:
2 pages worth of replies over 2-1/2 months, not 1 single response from the O/P.
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He “liked” the list I posted up in my first reply and hasn’t been seen since. Hasn’t even been on the board since April.

Of course, the whole thing was dead until Spun Bearing decided to try and hijack it for a Hemi swap.
 
72bluNblu said:
Caltracs are drag racing gear. They are designed to hook, and only to hook, with little or no consideration for ride quality. I'm not a drag race guy, and even I've read enough about the Caltracs to know that very few people enjoy running them on the street. Strip is a different story, but on the street I think you'll find the consensus is they ride really harsh. And that shouldn't be a surprise, because they're designed to hook. The more you set your suspension up for drag racing, the worse your ride quality will be on the street. A loose front end and really stiff rear suspension may be great for going fast in a straight line, but it's terrible for anything else.

As for putting it all in one thread, good luck. There are several threads that have a ton of information. I know I've posted that "recipe" for a good handling car at least a dozen times now and there are tons of great threads by others like autoxcuda that went into making up that list. But what makes a good suspension set up changes with how the car is used, and especially with what tires are used. Suspension has to match the the grip level and intended use of the car. What makes a good street cruiser will be different from what makes a good corner carver, which will be different again from an all-out autoX car. And what makes for a good 1/4 mile car will be completely different.
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Thanks for posting that list again.. made sure I copied it this time! I'm planning on using this as a blueprint for my Cuda (after I win the lotto). It's seems to be a nice sensible plan for the average street guy who gets a bit racy once in awhile.
 
replicaracer43 said:
AND, there is good information in here that can help others, not just the OP.
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I DO know and understand that, I spend a lot of time reading threads that don't seem relevant to me because sometimes I come across something that helps me out. I was just pointing out how much info as well as bullshit (myself included) is in this thread. In reality, all the info O/P wanted, as well as Hemi guys info, is already here on this site, burning up electrons & server space. Probably in multiple redundancies, readily accessible with use of the search box. Of course I didn't see his "like" of 72's post, but with all the contributions, I like seeing a follow up as to which way he's going, what he's thinking about doing, more questions, or even a "thanks, I'll post some pics after I save up more Mopar Money"
 
I pretty much followed the blue print that has been preached so many times by @72bluNblu and finally have my car on the road.
Welded K-frame, and LCAs, tubular UCAs, tubular adjustable strut rods, solid tie rod sleeves, Borgenson box, 1.08 Sway Aways. I just installed the t-bars and I'm blown away how much better the car handles. I still need to get new shocks and sway bar, but I'm still impressed. The car is super flat in turns. I'll probably order the shocks late summer. I'm allocating my funds to AC first! It's f-ing hot in the South!
 
Hey thanks for all the info guys! The feedback was useful and greatly appreciated. Due to my budget and time restraints I went hotchkis with pst torsion bars and greasable lca pivot shafts. Brakes are up in the air still, but most likely wilwood or dr. Diff.
The car will be mostly a weekend cruiser with occasional drags in the summer.
 
Awesome. My choice as well. Dr Diff brakes for the rear will allow for max tire. Wilwoods push track out.
 
DAndy ART said:
Awesome. My choice as well. Dr Diff brakes for the rear will allow for max tire. Wilwoods push track out.
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Eh, it depends on which Wilwood kit. Wilwood changed their hubs a couple years back, the track width isn't as wide as they used to make it. But they also increased the diameter of the hub, which is actually the bigger issue now. The hub register on the Wilwoods is significantly larger than any of the factory wheels now, and even larger than a lot of aftermarket wheels.
 
72bluNblu said:
Eh, it depends on which Wilwood kit. Wilwood changed their hubs a couple years back, the track width isn't as wide as they used to make it. But they also increased the diameter of the hub, which is actually the bigger issue now. The hub register on the Wilwoods is significantly larger than any of the factory wheels now, and even larger than a lot of aftermarket wheels.
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Do you think I need to go bigger than 11inch rotors for the power (500+) and my usage (cruiser/drag)
 
OriginalDart said:
Do you think I need to go bigger than 11inch rotors for the power (500+) and my usage (cruiser/drag)
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500+ is a lot of horsepower to stop. These cars came from the factory with 11" brakes and half that amount of power.

Now, a lot of it depends on what you decide to run for tires up front. If you run skinny little hockey pucks then 11" brakes will probably do as much as your tires are capable of. That said, I ran the later 11.75" B/R body disks on my Duster with 225/60/15's up front and thought they were great. Same brakes I used on my Challenger for years, they did well even with the 275's I ran up front on it.

The Stage II kit that DoctorDiff sells is basically just the factory 73+ spindles etc with the later B/R body 11.75" brakes. They fit with 15" rims too, not sure what you've decided for wheels. But all factory reproduction parts, and a nice upgrade compared to the 10.97" 73+ disks.

Mopar 11.75" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 2)
 
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