Homemade Spring Offset kit

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RustyRatRod said:
You can run a 275 60 with the right wheel and no relocation.
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dartfreak75 said:
What wheel would I need for that?
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Rusty means no 3" relocation. On Dart you need a 1/2" spring offset to run 275's. Only the Duster/Demons/Dart Sports/Barracuda's can run a 275 with springs in the stock location, the stock wheel tubs are wider by 1" compared to the Dart's.

On a Dart you can run a 275, but not with the springs in the stock location. You can do it without a full 3" relocation and mini-tub, but you need a 1/2" offset.

What wheel you need to do that depends on which axle you have and whether or not it's BBP or SBP. A-body rear axles are different widths- the 8 3/4, 7.25 and 8.25 axles are not the same width. So if you want to max out your tire, the wheel specs change by axle.

famous bob said:
I had to enlarge an existing hole quite a bit , pretty heavily massage the frame rail and drive the front spring hanger in place ,it was and "is" more than 1/2 " offset , and aint coming out easily. I had to pull one to place an 1/8" shim in front of it to square my rear end, with 295x65`s on it , it has to be perfect . After being told that`s not what I did, I`m sure mine are freaks , hence the guy I bought them from couldn`t get them in his car . ????. If I spend money on something, I`m dam well going to use it , even if I have to modify it . Which is the case for a lot of parts now.
There was another guy on here that had a pair that was over 1/2" in the front too, but don't remember his handle .
After all this B.S. and "know it knowitallishness" , I`m sure dr.diffs are 1/2" , and mine are not the norm.
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I'm not going to debate this with you. I'm going to show you that the Mopar Performance "3/4" offset is NOT a 3/4" offset at the spring hanger, because it CAN'T be.

This is my Dart, the leaf springs are in the stock locations. The hangers are aftermarket reproductions (from Mancini), but they are in the stock location and use the stock spring perches on the original 8 3/4 rear axle. As you can see, there is a 1/2" from the hanger to the frame (minus a little undercoating), and 1" from the inside of the spring to the frame rail. I measured this right at the spring, as you can see the gap is narrower at the top and wider at the bottom because the frame rail has a taper (they all do).

IMG_6375.jpeg


Now, this is my Duster. Let me be clear right up front, this IS a Mopar Performance 3/4" offset hanger. Not a DoctorDiff hanger, but the real MP offset hanger that is advertised as a 3/4" offset. Notice it is right up against the frame rail at the top. The rails taper slightly from top to bottom, so it's flush at the top and has a very small gap at the bottom. The hanger is vertical, the rail is not.

IMG_6387.jpeg


And here's the measurement. The hanger is up against the frame at the top, there's pretty much 0 space between the hanger and the frame rail at the spring, it's less than a 1/16". And it doesn't matter, because the frame rail is tapered so unless the spring hanger isn't vertical there will be a space there even when it's touching the frame at the top. The spring is a 1/2" clear of the frame. So, for the mathematically un-inclined, the spring moved exactly a 1/2" inboard. Not 3/4", only a 1/2".
IMG_6385.jpeg


And again, that's a 3/4" Mopar Performance offset hanger. The frame was drilled and massaged for the nut that you can't see, it sits inside the frame rail.

So, that's 2 different cars. One showing that the stock spring location puts the hanger only a 1/2" from the frame. And the other showing that the MP 3/4" offset hanger only moves the front spring hanger by a 1/2". Two cars showing the same exact thing- the MP 3/4" offset kit spring hangers only move the spring a 1/2", because that's as far as you can move the front spring hangers before they hit the frame rail.

Now, I'm sure someone will say "but there's still a 1/2" of clearance between the spring and the frame!!!"

And that's true. A 1/4" of that is the spring hanger, the other 1/4 is spring eye bushing. Those are stock spring eye bushings too. The Dart has Mopar Performance SS springs on it. The Duster has AFCO's, which have plain old stock rubber spring eye bushings. So, unless you shave the spring eye bushings down and force the spring further toward the hanger body, that's what you're stuck with. The spring eye bolts are torqued to spec on both cars.

The MP hangers that you can buy are not a real 3/4" offset, they're a 1/2" offset at the hanger with 3/4" offset shackles that side load the spring and still only buy you about a 1/2" of clearance at the front of the tire.

Now Bob, if you want to take detailed pictures showing how your offset hangers somehow go inside the frame rails and really offset your springs 3/4", be my guest. But until then, I don't believe you.
 
Hey 72, what do you think about the AFCO springs? I have a set I am planning on using.
 
kgip2k said:
Hey 72, what do you think about the AFCO springs? I have a set I am planning on using.
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I think they're great. It's too bad that they don't sell the 121 lb/in version like I have anymore, I'd buy more. The only thing I screwed up is they came bare, and I should have painted them before I installed them.
 
72bluNblu said:
I think they're great. It's too bad that they don't sell the 121 lb/in version like I have anymore, I'd buy more. The only thing I screwed up is they came bare, and I should have painted them before I installed them.
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Cool cool, I hope mine aren't too stiff
 
I really don't know what they are, I think one still has/had the numbers on it. They came on a Camaro I bought, just springs they put on to make it a roller. I assume if they are a set, probably 125-150 on one side and 200-225 other... Depending on what they were ordered for
 
Here some real world pics I took today. I'm running 245/45r17 on 17x9 Bullitt's with a 1" spacer.

20190622_174349.jpg


20190622_174414.jpg


20190622_174435.jpg


20190622_174458.jpg
 
kgip2k said:
I really don't know what they are, I think one still has/had the numbers on it. They came on a Camaro I bought, just springs they put on to make it a roller. I assume if they are a set, probably 125-150 on one side and 200-225 other... Depending on what they were ordered for
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Oh, that probably won’t work. AFCO has Chevy and Chrysler style springs, the eyes and lengths are different. If they’re actually Chevy springs they won’t be right.

moparmandan said:
Here some real world pics I took today. I'm running 245/45r17 on 17x9 Bullitt's with a 1" spacer.

View attachment 1715353816

View attachment 1715353817

View attachment 1715353818

View attachment 1715353819
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Nice! Yeah that’s just about perfect, good spacing, plenty of clearance. 255’s are usually pretty tight, lots of cars need trimming for those. And of course different brands of tire are actually different widths. Not to mention the wheel width makes a difference too, 245’s on 17x9’s will have a wider section width than if they were mounted on 17x8’s. And that’s before you even get into ride height, body tolerances, etc.
 
72, no they are Chrysler springs... Just not 100% sure of rates. Axle was around 4" into the front of the rear qp of the car.
 
72bluNblu said:
Nice! Yeah that’s just about perfect, good spacing, plenty of clearance. 255’s are usually pretty tight, lots of cars need trimming for those. And of course different brands of tire are actually different widths. Not to mention the wheel width makes a difference too, 245’s on 17x9’s will have a wider section width than if they were mounted on 17x8’s. And that’s before you even get into ride height, body tolerances, etc.
Click to expand...
Yeah I thought about going wider on the back but I wasn't sure about what I could stuff in there. I figured being able to rotate them wouldn't be a bad thing.
 
That's awesome I guess I will just run 245s that should be plenty of tire. And I can spend the 200+ on something else lol
 
72bluNblu said:
Oh, that probably won’t work. AFCO has Chevy and Chrysler style springs, the eyes and lengths are different. If they’re actually Chevy springs they won’t be right.



Nice! Yeah that’s just about perfect, good spacing, plenty of clearance. 255’s are usually pretty tight, lots of cars need trimming for those. And of course different brands of tire are actually different widths. Not to mention the wheel width makes a difference too, 245’s on 17x9’s will have a wider section width than if they were mounted on 17x8’s. And that’s before you even get into ride height, body tolerances, etc.
Click to expand...
So a 255 on a 7 will be narrower than a 255 on a 8?
In that case a 255 may fit.
 
You can easily move the springs over 1/2" without any fancy kit. Simply redrill the front and rear hanger holes over 1/2" and use the factory shackles. Then you would just have to weld new perches on the axle housing. That's about as simple and cheap as it gets.
 
72bluNblu said:
Even the Mopar Performance 3/4” kit doesn’t move the springs by a 3/4”. The front hanger only moves a 1/2”, the rear shackles are 3/4”, and it calls for the spring perches to be moved 3/4”. So it side loads the springs and places them at a slight angle,
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Just a note about an idea concerning a proper installation of one of these kits. I don't want to get into the whole argument about how far the front hanger is actually moved (as we all know how absolutely dimensionally perfect these cars were from the factory) but care should be taken to weld the perches to the housing in a way that creates NO SIDE LOAD. If you don't the front bushing can slowly move in the spring and start to rub the hanger (yeah it's one of my mistakes) and also lead to unpredictable response in poor road conditions.
I have taken to using the following procedure - Mount the hangers and shim what you need to make sure that the spring swings up to the rear shackle with no binding or side load with the front bolt in place in the front hanger, set the perches on the springs being careful to let the springs set in a neutral, unloaded way, and set the housing with the center section in place on the perches, put the u-bolts in place and tighten to the point where you can rotate the housing on the perches with effort (so it stays where you put it), set the proper pinion angle, tack the perches to the housing, remove the u-bolts and finish welding. This should result in no side load on the springs even if the springs are at a very slight angle (max a quarter inch over the length of the spring). The perches should reflect that angle if there is one.
 
dartfreak75 said:
That's awesome I guess I will just run 245s that should be plenty of tire. And I can spend the 200+ on something else lol
Click to expand...

Yeah cause your junk probably ain't even gonna be able to turn those over. lol
 
72bluNblu said:
Rusty means no 3" relocation. On Dart you need a 1/2" spring offset to run 275's. Only the Duster/Demons/Dart Sports/Barracuda's can run a 275 with springs in the stock location, the stock wheel tubs are wider by 1" compared to the Dart's.

On a Dart you can run a 275, but not with the springs in the stock location. You can do it without a full 3" relocation and mini-tub, but you need a 1/2" offset.

What wheel you need to do that depends on which axle you have and whether or not it's BBP or SBP. A-body rear axles are different widths- the 8 3/4, 7.25 and 8.25 axles are not the same width. So if you want to max out your tire, the wheel specs change by axle.



I'm not going to debate this with you. I'm going to show you that the Mopar Performance "3/4" offset is NOT a 3/4" offset at the spring hanger, because it CAN'T be.

This is my Dart, the leaf springs are in the stock locations. The hangers are aftermarket reproductions (from Mancini), but they are in the stock location and use the stock spring perches on the original 8 3/4 rear axle. As you can see, there is a 1/2" from the hanger to the frame (minus a little undercoating), and 1" from the inside of the spring to the frame rail. I measured this right at the spring, as you can see the gap is narrower at the top and wider at the bottom because the frame rail has a taper (they all do).

View attachment 1715353720

Now, this is my Duster. Let me be clear right up front, this IS a Mopar Performance 3/4" offset hanger. Not a DoctorDiff hanger, but the real MP offset hanger that is advertised as a 3/4" offset. Notice it is right up against the frame rail at the top. The rails taper slightly from top to bottom, so it's flush at the top and has a very small gap at the bottom. The hanger is vertical, the rail is not.

View attachment 1715353721

And here's the measurement. The hanger is up against the frame at the top, there's pretty much 0 space between the hanger and the frame rail at the spring, it's less than a 1/16". And it doesn't matter, because the frame rail is tapered so unless the spring hanger isn't vertical there will be a space there even when it's touching the frame at the top. The spring is a 1/2" clear of the frame. So, for the mathematically un-inclined, the spring moved exactly a 1/2" inboard. Not 3/4", only a 1/2".
View attachment 1715353719

And again, that's a 3/4" Mopar Performance offset hanger. The frame was drilled and massaged for the nut that you can't see, it sits inside the frame rail.

So, that's 2 different cars. One showing that the stock spring location puts the hanger only a 1/2" from the frame. And the other showing that the MP 3/4" offset hanger only moves the front spring hanger by a 1/2". Two cars showing the same exact thing- the MP 3/4" offset kit spring hangers only move the spring a 1/2", because that's as far as you can move the front spring hangers before they hit the frame rail.

Now, I'm sure someone will say "but there's still a 1/2" of clearance between the spring and the frame!!!"

And that's true. A 1/4" of that is the spring hanger, the other 1/4 is spring eye bushing. Those are stock spring eye bushings too. The Dart has Mopar Performance SS springs on it. The Duster has AFCO's, which have plain old stock rubber spring eye bushings. So, unless you shave the spring eye bushings down and force the spring further toward the hanger body, that's what you're stuck with. The spring eye bolts are torqued to spec on both cars.

The MP hangers that you can buy are not a real 3/4" offset, they're a 1/2" offset at the hanger with 3/4" offset shackles that side load the spring and still only buy you about a 1/2" of clearance at the front of the tire.

Now Bob, if you want to take detailed pictures showing how your offset hangers somehow go inside the frame rails and really offset your springs 3/4", be my guest. But until then, I don't believe you.
Click to expand...

I didn`t read this last post of yours, DID I EVER SAY MINE WERE MOPAR STUFF ?!
Dam , ur a know it all , even when u dont know what parts are used , or who made tham! Must be trying to use a failed crystal ball.
Sorry , but all parts are not the same as yours, even tho you made or designed them all .
Done w/ this , just keep telling everyone u know about all parts ever made , I`m out .
Just noticed , didn`t say they went inside the frame rails. U cant even read I gues-------------
 
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