Engine decking issue(help)

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Listen! I don't mean to put all of your methods down. But times have changed. I can remember not that long ago my telephone had a wire going to it.

It took a long time to get our machines that we have. They are for us and racers we know and meet. My son charges $200 to square deck a V8. Break a tool and there goes a couple hundred
He was telling us tonight the proper way to machine a new block is
1. hold the block and Bore the cam tunnel
2 hold the block by the cam tunnel with a cam bar and cut the mains
3 hold the block in the fixture by the main bearing bores and set the deck height on one side by using the Cam and crank center which is 45 degrees to the first deck. Zero the DRO
4.Turn the fixture and it will go past center to 45 degrees to the other side of the center this will be 90 degrees from the first deck This is square decking. Exact 90 Degree head surface difference is squaring the decks. If you cut to zero on the second Deck they will be the exact same height and 90 degrees apart. Another words a framing square will set from deck to deck. Square!

Now if you have different piston to deck heights you have issues with your rod lengths. They are different or the piston pin heights are off. You never change the deck to fit different height pistons. What are you all thinking? I am not a machinist nor are other members that come here but most of us would know that through common sense . Think about what you all are saying.

Oh yeah we don't need work so I am not trying to get any for him. He cannot get caught up know. But we do help friends in a bind when they are broke. He'll work on a weekend for friends.

Most big name shops have Rottlers/ or "Bed mills", Rottler is a brand name, Top of the line . Take your block where they have the new equipment and and have the fixture for your block.



I have a trivia question. Why did they put shorter rods in number 1 and 2 pistons on a nitro super charged funny cars and rail cars which lowered compression on those cylinders? My son told us this tonight. He learned this working on nitro motors. some are still doing it.


no question Rottler is the Cadillac of automotive machines. Possibly interesting tidbit: I used to correct Andy Rottler's homework when I was a TA in the Seattle Machinist Apprentice program at South Seattle CC.
 
So you're saying that a machinist cant make a mistake if he's got the right equipment set up right? Let me say that I know nothing about how to square a deck but I can see that if while making the second cut on the opposite bank an unscrupulous individual might see that material is being taken away on the inner edge but not the outer and lower the cutting head or raise the bed a few thousandths to clean it up. is that the right way to do it...no but to save time thinking the customer will never know it could be done and probably has...or the machinist may just be a hack. An example of a "Machinist" not knowing what their doing is...first, I am a machinist...I made some 2" shafts. I had a know it all "Machinist" working for me on my machinist crew make some brass bushings to fit the shaft and told him I need .003 clearance. He made them 2.00" inside bore. took em back to him and said I need .003 clearance for the 2" shaft. The inside bore should have been 2.003. he proceeded to move the boring bar in .003 from wipe.Now the bore is opened up and measured 2.006 inside....003 too much. All he had to do is take .0015. Or 1 1/2 thousandths per side to give me my .003 clearance. **** happens, sometimes people do stupid **** thinking it's correct or it'll be okay.


First off, yes machinists make mistakes. I've made plenty. But it damn sure wasn't missing a deck height by that much.

If you cut the deck to low corner, you never make the mistake where one side is shorter than the other. That's why you measure first. But, if the mistake was made, and cutting the second side ended up short, you machine the first side so they are the SAME and make up the difference in head gasket thickness if need be.

And, we have a member who thinks guys with a stock block, probably making less than 500 HP should bore the cam line, then finish the mains and then deck the block and do all that for 200 bucks. Yep. That's what everyone needs.

It's not that hard. You don't need a CNC machine to get the decks straight and square. That's why God made dial indicators.
 
That's not the machines fault. That's a piss poor machinist. You say your measurements show one engine is .005 off and the other is .006 off? The dude should have been fired and sent to work at a fast food drive through.

YR, I think they did send him to my local McDonalds, judging by my last quarter pounder with the cheese hanging half off! Next time have him sent to your own local fast food joint, NOT mine.
 
First off, yes machinists make mistakes. I've made plenty. But it damn sure wasn't missing a deck height by that much.

If you cut the deck to low corner, you never make the mistake where one side is shorter than the other. That's why you measure first. But, if the mistake was made, and cutting the second side ended up short, you machine the first side so they are the SAME and make up the difference in head gasket thickness if need be.

And, we have a member who thinks guys with a stock block, probably making less than 500 HP should bore the cam line, then finish the mains and then deck the block and do all that for 200 bucks. Yep. That's what everyone needs.

It's not that hard. You don't need a CNC machine to get the decks straight and square. That's why God made dial indicators.
Guys like you always have an answer but no knowledge at all. Our machines are all manual No CNC's here.If you were a real machinest you would have saw that on the pictures. If you read that process I mentioned it was for new blocks. I mentioned that so some would understand the process in which a block is created. square off the crank/cam center line.

Ah but You know for sure that your stock block was perfect from new. You my friend do not have a clue on why square decking is an important process. I would say about 40% are out of square with different deck heights side to side causing the wrong intake surface angle. Why not check if the core of your engine was built accurate? I forgot you do it with a dial veneer and a tape measure along with your naked eye. Micrometers and "Digital Read Outs" (DRO"s) are for beginners. And just because we bought a Bed mill our process is only for the rich that want to get paid for what they do.

It seems like attacking someone for giving good advise is OK in your eyes. Are you the guy that did all the posters machine work and didn't have the equipment to square the deck.

How would you check the deck height without using the crank/cam center line? Without a fixture you can't check it or correct it properly. If you didn't know that you are a wanna be machinist. I myself had to ask my son because I never saw him using the pistons in the bore to check the deck. H just got a Dart SBC race block. You should see the mess a prehistoric machinist made out of that build. Fresh from a engine builder in Virginia.
 
Guys like you always have an answer but no knowledge at all. Our machines are all manual No CNC's here.If you were a real machinest you would have saw that on the pictures. If you read that process I mentioned it was for new blocks. I mentioned that so some would understand the process in which a block is created. square off the crank/cam center line.

Ah but You know for sure that your stock block was perfect from new. You my friend do not have a clue on why square decking is an important process. I would say about 40% are out of square with different deck heights side to side causing the wrong intake surface angle. Why not check if the core of your engine was built accurate? I forgot you do it with a dial veneer and a tape measure along with your naked eye. Micrometers and "Digital Read Outs" (DRO"s) are for beginners. And just because we bought a Bed mill our process is only for the rich that want to get paid for what they do.

It seems like attacking someone for giving good advise is OK in your eyes. Are you the guy that did all the posters machine work and didn't have the equipment to square the deck.

How would you check the deck height without using the crank/cam center line? Without a fixture you can't check it or correct it properly. If you didn't know that you are a wanna be machinist. I myself had to ask my son because I never saw him using the pistons in the bore to check the deck. H just got a Dart SBC race block. You should see the mess a prehistoric machinist made out of that build. Fresh from a engine builder in Virginia.

You think it's as low as 40%? I don't man. Every mopar block I've ever had checked was out. ......and several I am sure before I knew it was even important to check. I am in agreement yall are doin some fine work. But that doesn't mean fine work cannot be done another way.

Plenty of precision block decking was done before a Rottler ever existed. The Storm Vulcan one of Macon's local shops uses is an antique, but does a fantastic job. It's an old 85B and does a nice job.......because he knows how to set it up. It looks just like this one.

STORM VULCAN.jpg
 
The various manufacturers offer CNC packages for their mills. But it's pricey and unless you're doing production work may not be of any value to the shop. Purchase of this type of equipment has to bring money in, or it's not going to work out.
In terms of accuracy, the older stuff cannot match the new stuff. Period. I don't care if Jesus himself set it up, both design engineering and years of service makes it so and the fact they don't own equipment precise enough to measure to that degree does not mean they can equal the output.
There's reasons why some engines are better than others - the foundation is the block, and the machining of that is the forming for that foundation. Y'all can wish all you want. You can expect all you want. You can appreciate the oldschool and expert labor. But as Scottie says - "You canna change the physics!!!"

Nasa doesn't use slide rules anymore. Mechanics don't use dwell meters anymore. Ships don't use sails anymore. Evolution... it's real!
 
The various manufacturers offer CNC packages for their mills. But it's pricey and unless you're doing production work may not be of any value to the shop. Purchase of this type of equipment has to bring money in, or it's not going to work out.
In terms of accuracy, the older stuff cannot match the new stuff. Period. I don't care if Jesus himself set it up, both design engineering and years of service makes it so and the fact they don't own equipment precise enough to measure to that degree does not mean they can equal the output.
There's reasons why some engines are better than others - the foundation is the block, and the machining of that is the forming for that foundation. Y'all can wish all you want. You can expect all you want. You can appreciate the oldschool and expert labor. But as Scottie says - "You canna change the physics!!!"

Nasa doesn't use slide rules anymore. Mechanics don't use dwell meters anymore. Ships don't use sails anymore. Evolution... it's real!



Ok smartass, what were you using before all the snazzy stuff came out? All that shitty "old stuff" I bet.

Lemmie tell you buddy, "not everybody" NEEDS that level of machine work. Were I building an out an out race engine, yup, I'd be heading somewhere in Atlanta, or Jacksonville, or Tennessee. But I'm not. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Plenty of races have been won, plenty of records set with "old school" tech and plenty of guys runnin "new school tech" have had their butts handed to them with old school stuff. Happens everyday.

No, you caint change physics. You're right. The newer stuff does a better job. But that better job has to be followed through from the shop, to the assembly and to the track. That's a lotta follow through to get right. Leaves just as much chance for the old school guy to win.
 
It's the Indian and not the arrow. You need equipment and fixtures that is in good shape and repeatable, but after that the success of the operation is in the setup and a CNC or digital displays won't compensate for insufficient attention to detail. As pointed out, they've been building high precision engines and other crap long before the current crop of machines came out. The new stuff makes the machinist more efficient/productive, not more precise.
 
I'll even say this........those of you bashing older stuff, "ain't everybody" has access to stuff like yall are talkin about. Ain't a shop in Macon has a Serdi valve machine. I think Cassidy has a Rottler. But everytime I take something there, the price gets higher. Tells me right there they don't want my business.

And........if I was local to Steve, I'd be takin all my machine work to his son. 200 bucks to deck a V8? That's a deal. They'd be doin all my stuff. But that's a damned long haul from Georgia. Yall can piss on other peoples' methods all you want, but you need to remember, not everybody can have the access to what some of yall do. A lot of us just do "the best we can". I sure am glad some of yall have it so good, though. But pissin on the rest of us who don't ain't cool at all.
 
I'll even say this........those of you bashing older stuff, "ain't everybody" has access to stuff like yall are talkin about. Ain't a shop in Macon has a Serdi valve machine. I think Cassidy has a Rottler. But everytime I take something there, the price gets higher. Tells me right there they don't want my business.

And........if I was local to Steve, I'd be takin all my machine work to his son. 200 bucks to deck a V8? That's a deal. They'd be doin all my stuff. But that's a damned long haul from Georgia. Yall can piss on other peoples' methods all you want, but you need to remember, not everybody can have the access to what some of yall do. A lot of us just do "the best we can". I sure am glad some of yall have it so good, though. But pissin on the rest of us who don't ain't cool at all.
I am sure older methods on older machines work just fine. But the process is the same just a different set up. Square decking is square decking no matter what the age of the machine. Rottler is not the only bed mill out there. Ours is a "Port Mill" The company that designed the engine block specific "Rottler". The only difference is the name and our machine has more options not needed for block work.

All the new Rottler's are CNC. They do not sell manual machines anymore and that is what my son wanted , A manual machine. Software is expensive for the CNC's. Also Mill port was bought out by another company. When they closed the doors they sold out the remaining machines which were blue. They are now red. If you all remember we went to look at a 20 year old used broken machine in NJ. for $10k. The table was to close to the spindle and it needed alot of repairs.

My son saw our machine for sale with 6 others by a clearance co. out of buffalo NY. They listed them on Ebay with a typo. They price listed was suppose to be $135,000 for 6 of them, Some were incomplete. They had them listed for $13,500. missing one zero. My son jumped on it and pushed the buy it now.

When we got there we took cash thinking we bought one . I had the reciept with the down payment paid for the "buy it now" for the machines. They do not have cash at the warehouse for returns. Because of there mistake we got the only complete machine for $12.500. The next week they corrected the add. One of the reasons we got the deal is my son also bought a 24 " rotary table for $500. that machine was rusted fast so they owed us for the Table. It weighs over 400 lbs. They also had to pay shipping twice. Our return and the original cost.

You all think we are rich we're not . He bought the machine cheap and knows how to use it after running one for 10 years at a race shop. The shops in our area are not happy. Customers have been finding him through word of mouth from that shop.

So those of you that have negatives to say about him are cutting off your nose to spite your face. We live in a double wide mobile home and work out of a three car garage with more equipment than most shops in the area. Here is the machine where we picked it up. there were others in truck bodies. This machine was the only one hooked up to test and it was closest to the Door. We were there on a Saturday afternoon and the employee there just wanted to get us loaded and out of there so he could go home. $12,500 for a perfect machine now selling for over $150,000 for a CNC. And will never be available in the manual version again. I saw they sold the last one in pieces as a parts machine for $20k. Here it is at the ware house.

We left there with one perfect new machine still on the pallet and wrapped . The rusted table is setting on the tool box they said keep it. My son just went out there for a Patterson power hone. He now knows the owner of the company and has her personal phone number.
I thought you all would be happy that there is someone on the site with these skills and equipment. Don't let jealousy stand in the way of progress that could be at your benefit. One thing I could tell you he is living life to the fullest. He was able to buy this machine that he never thought he could afford. Condemn him all you want. Young guns and technology are taking over. Us old guys are living in the past.

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I am sure older methods on older machines work just fine. But the process is the same just a different set up. Square decking is square decking no matter what the age of the machine. Rottler is not the only bed mill out there. Ours is a "Port Mill" The company that designed the engine block specific "Rottler". The only difference is the name and our machine has more options not needed for block work.

All the new Rottler's are CNC. They do not sell manual machines anymore and that is what my son wanted , A manual machine. Software is expensive for the CNC's. Also Mill port was bought out by another company. When they closed the doors they sold out the remaining machines which were blue. They are now red. If you all remember we went to look at a 20 year old used broken machine in NJ. for $10k. The table was to close to the spindle and it needed alot of repairs.

My son saw our machine for sale with 6 others by a clearance co. out of buffalo NY. They listed them on Ebay with a typo. They price listed was suppose to be $135,000 for 6 of them, Some were incomplete. They had them listed for $13,500. missing one zero. My son jumped on it and pushed the buy it now.

When we got there we took cash thinking we bought one . I had the reciept with the down payment paid for the "buy it now" for the machines. They do not have cash at the warehouse for returns. Because of there mistake we got the only complete machine for $12.500. The next week they corrected the add. One of the reasons we got the deal is my son also bought a 24 " rotary table for $500. that machine was rusted fast so they owed us for the Table. It weighs over 400 lbs. They also had to pay shipping twice. Our return and the original cost.

You all think we are rich we're not . He bought the machine cheap and knows how to use it after running one for 10 years at a race shop. The shops in our area are not happy. Customers have been finding him through word of mouth from that shop.

So those of you that have negatives to say about him are cutting off your nose to spite your face. We live in a double wide mobile home and work out of a three car garage with more equipment than most shops in the area. Here is the machine where we picked it up. there were others in truck bodies. This machine was the only one hooked up to test and it was closest to the Door. We were there on a Saturday afternoon and the employee there just wanted to get us loaded and out of there so he could go home. $12,500 for a perfect machine now selling for over $150,000 for a CNC. And will never be available in the manual version again. I saw they sold the last one in pieces as a parts machine for $20k. Here it is at the ware house.

We left there with one perfect new machine still on the pallet and wrapped . The rusted table is setting on the tool box they said keep it. My son just went out there for a Patterson power hone. He now knows the owner of the company and has her personal phone number.
I thought you all would be happy that there is someone on the site with these skills and equipment. Don't let jealousy stand in the way of progress that could be at your benefit. One thing I could tell you he is living life to the fullest. He was able to buy this machine that he never thought he could afford. Condemn him all you want. Young guns and technology are taking over. Us old guys are living in the past.

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Right, squaring the deck is squaring the deck. No **** Sherlock.

The issue I have is YOU think YOU are the only one who can get it done.

Your snotty arrogance is what is baffling. You telling the OP he can't get his deck square because he isn't using a machine such as yours is bullshit.

You're the same guy who claims to have a fix for high RPM oiling issues, yet you don't tell anyone how to do it. I know how to do it, and I've posted it here so many times I'm not going to do it again. Yet, you won't say what it is. I call bullshit on that too. I've made power at 8500 and it's not for the faint of heart. You ain't fixing **** if you ain't corrections the oil timing.

Unless you want to post your super fix it deal.

I mentioned CNC because that's where everything is moving. CNC isn't better. It will just repeat. Over and over and over. It doesn't know if it's right or wrong.

I've used a machine like the Rottler. And I've used machines far less than that, and got the job done. If you need a certain machine to do a quality job, that's on you.
 
I am sure older methods on older machines work just fine. But the process is the same just a different set up. Square decking is square decking no matter what the age of the machine. Rottler is not the only bed mill out there. Ours is a "Port Mill" The company that designed the engine block specific "Rottler". The only difference is the name and our machine has more options not needed for block work.

All the new Rottler's are CNC. They do not sell manual machines anymore and that is what my son wanted , A manual machine. Software is expensive for the CNC's. Also Mill port was bought out by another company. When they closed the doors they sold out the remaining machines which were blue. They are now red. If you all remember we went to look at a 20 year old used broken machine in NJ. for $10k. The table was to close to the spindle and it needed alot of repairs.

My son saw our machine for sale with 6 others by a clearance co. out of buffalo NY. They listed them on Ebay with a typo. They price listed was suppose to be $135,000 for 6 of them, Some were incomplete. They had them listed for $13,500. missing one zero. My son jumped on it and pushed the buy it now.

When we got there we took cash thinking we bought one . I had the reciept with the down payment paid for the "buy it now" for the machines. They do not have cash at the warehouse for returns. Because of there mistake we got the only complete machine for $12.500. The next week they corrected the add. One of the reasons we got the deal is my son also bought a 24 " rotary table for $500. that machine was rusted fast so they owed us for the Table. It weighs over 400 lbs. They also had to pay shipping twice. Our return and the original cost.

You all think we are rich we're not . He bought the machine cheap and knows how to use it after running one for 10 years at a race shop. The shops in our area are not happy. Customers have been finding him through word of mouth from that shop.

So those of you that have negatives to say about him are cutting off your nose to spite your face. We live in a double wide mobile home and work out of a three car garage with more equipment than most shops in the area. Here is the machine where we picked it up. there were others in truck bodies. This machine was the only one hooked up to test and it was closest to the Door. We were there on a Saturday afternoon and the employee there just wanted to get us loaded and out of there so he could go home. $12,500 for a perfect machine now selling for over $150,000 for a CNC. And will never be available in the manual version again. I saw they sold the last one in pieces as a parts machine for $20k. Here it is at the ware house.

We left there with one perfect new machine still on the pallet and wrapped . The rusted table is setting on the tool box they said keep it. My son just went out there for a Patterson power hone. He now knows the owner of the company and has her personal phone number.
I thought you all would be happy that there is someone on the site with these skills and equipment. Don't let jealousy stand in the way of progress that could be at your benefit. One thing I could tell you he is living life to the fullest. He was able to buy this machine that he never thought he could afford. Condemn him all you want. Young guns and technology are taking over. Us old guys are living in the past.

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No, I never mentioned being rich. I simply said that yall have ACCESS TO something a lot of us do not. Not only that, but you did come off like yall's way is the only right way to do it and it flat out ain't. Might well "be the best" but it's not the only way and you damn well know it. I don't condemn anybody. How wrong would that be? I am glad yall are able to do the things you do. It's good for the hobby and good for everyone who is in a small enough radius to use your services. That's a good thing. There's just no need to act like yall know something the rest of the world doesn't, because chances are "you don't".
 
Right, squaring the deck is squaring the deck.

I mentioned CNC because that's where everything is moving. CNC isn't better. It will just repeat. Over and over and over. It doesn't know if it's right or wrong.

I've used a machine like the Rottler. And I've used machines far less than that, and got the job done. If you need a certain machine to do a quality job, that's on you.

Yep, it's the set up that matters. Seen plenty of "junk" spit out of fancy CNC machines.

A good machinist with a storm vulcan can absolutely match decking results from a rottler. CNC doesn't guarantee satisfactory or good results.
 
Yep, it's the set up that matters. Seen plenty of "junk" spit out of fancy CNC machines.

A good machinist with a storm vulcan can absolutely match decking results from a rottler. CNC doesn't guarantee satisfactory or good results.

They're some badass old school technology for sure. I love operating one.
 
I've been watching this thread and it's been entertaining to be sure.

My opinion: CNC is nice, but as already stated it is not the be all, end all, do all. Many people who might call themselves "machinists", running a CNC machine may know little more about the machine they are operating than "start", "stop", "pause". Is the machine auto load tool change, or is it manual? How is the tooling handled and stored? Is it kept sharp? Admittedly, some of these questions pertain to old fashion equipment also.


My Dad was a staff manufacturing engineer for a defense contractor. One of his last projects before he retired was the machining of 3 castings about the size of a playmate cooler. Part of a Naval weapons system. I don't know how many operations were involved in machining these things though cycle time per casting was 6 1/2 hours in the beginning, he worked it down to 2 hours. THAT is what CNC is about, speed. You can talk about accuracy, give the guy spinning the dial a 6 place digital read out, tell him what number to hit at the 4th place and he will hit it every time, just not as fast.


Two of the most significant events of the 20th century were the result of someone spinning a dial by hand, and they are building "the bomb" and putting a man on the moon. Those events are what precipitated the improvements and innovations of modern manufacturing; don't forget though, "new" machines were made by "old" machines .

OMM, I hope your son stops and says a prayer to God, every time he powers up that machine, thanking him for the blind dumb luck that allowed him to buy that machine for $12,500.00, THAT is why he can deck a block for $200.00. There are a lot of shops that can't afford to pony up the $140,000.00 for a new machine, they just don't do that much business; your son couldn't do $200.00 deck jobs if he had to make payments on a $140,00.00 loan.
 
It's a bummer this turned into a big argument and people getting their feelings hurt. You have to start with a thou or two.ime .The mill I ran was marked metric..had to remind myself.

How many rods are the same length.lol
You can do it how you want, as long as you get it right.
 
OMM, I hope your son stops and says a prayer to God, every time he powers up that machine, thanking him for the blind dumb luck that allowed him to buy that machine for $12,500.00, THAT is why he can deck a block for $200.00. There are a lot of shops that can't afford to pony up the $140,000.00 for a new machine, they just don't do that much business; your son couldn't do $200.00 deck jobs if he had to make payments on a $140,000.00 loan.

This x1000

I was going to mention that in my response and left it alone. Getting a machine for less than a regular shop on a 10 year loan would be paying yearly in principle only is just incredible luck. Every shop that has one would be so lucky.

You can buy a boatload of tooling for 100k. lol

Same with my grandfather and Father, they designed and manufactured things for NASA, rockwell, rocketdyne over the years and never had a cnc machine anywhere.
 
This x1000

I was going to mention that in my response and left it alone. Getting a machine for less than a regular shop on a 10 year loan would be paying yearly in principle only is just incredible luck. Every shop that has one would be so lucky.

You can buy a boatload of tooling for 100k. lol

Same with my grandfather and Father, they designed and manufactured things for NASA, rockwell, rocketdyne over the years and never had a cnc machine anywhere.



As I grew up, and learned what I was taught on, and what machines and tooling I was using, and am using now, my profound respect and admiration for engineers and machinists of all fields back before the computer continued to grow.

Those guys did more with less than anyone today. Look at the Oakland engine, and the machining that went into it. They had nothing but manual machines. And slide rules. And engineering handbooks. They did amazing things and held incredible tolerances.

That's just one small example. Those guys didn't have the tooling we have today.

Those guy were incredible. I have the utmost respect for them.

Don't get me wrong. I love CNC machining. But it is merely production work. I'd rather blow my brains out than stand there and feed a machine all day. A good, quality job shop is a rare deal today.
 
It's a bummer this turned into a big argument and people getting their feelings hurt. You have to start with a thou or two.ime .The mill I ran was marked metric..had to remind myself.

How many rods are the same length.lol
You can do it how you want, as long as you get it right.


I hate metric. That's why I use my dial indicators. Or a DRO if you get that lucky!!
 
I'll even say this........those of you bashing older stuff, "ain't everybody" has access to stuff like yall are talkin about. Ain't a shop in Macon has a Serdi valve machine. I think Cassidy has a Rottler. But everytime I take something there, the price gets higher. Tells me right there they don't want my business.

And........if I was local to Steve, I'd be takin all my machine work to his son. 200 bucks to deck a V8? That's a deal. They'd be doin all my stuff. But that's a damned long haul from Georgia. Yall can piss on other peoples' methods all you want, but you need to remember, not everybody can have the access to what some of yall do. A lot of us just do "the best we can". I sure am glad some of yall have it so good, though. But pissin on the rest of us who don't ain't cool at all.






I am not trying to piss on anyone. The reason it only cost $200 to deck a block Is not due to what he paid for the machine. It is because that is how long it takes times $60 an hour. Do it the old way and the time rate doubles. It takes longer and the chance of error also goes up with pen and paper. These machines do the math for you. If shops set their rates at the cost of their equipment they would never get work.

One thing I taught my son if you don't have the cash for tools don't finance them. The biggest mistake mechanics make is going into debt to the snap-on man. Tool boxes don't make money, The tools combined with knowledge always results in a pay day if the tools are paid for. I myself could only ever afford Craftsman. Those boxes in my pictures are harbor freight with snap-on decals I put on. Fooled many even the snap on guy at first glance.
 
you all are a little whacked out

You're not trying to piss on anybody? But we're "whacked out" because we don't do it yall's way. I could pick some more of your condescending quotes, but I think you see my point.

Look man, I get it. You're PROUD of your son and what he can do. In fact, there's probably NOBODY on here who gets it more than I do. Wanna know why? Because my son is a shitstain on the diaper of humanity. If it doesn't involve laying around all day playing video games online, he doesn't do it. S'why he left here in 2008 and ain't gonna live here. Ever. Again. Geez man, if I were you, I'd wanna be shouting from the mountain tops how proud I am of my son. I get it. I just don't have that luxury.

Lots of people have won races and set records with "whacked out" machinists who did their machine work, so they must know "a little" something.
 
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I am not trying to piss on anyone. The reason it only cost $200 to deck a block Is not due to what he paid for the machine. It is because that is how long it takes times $60 an hour. Do it the old way and the time rate doubles. It takes longer and the chance of error also goes up with pen and paper. These machines do the math for you. If shops set their rates at the cost of their equipment they would never get work.

One thing I taught my son if you don't have the cash for tools don't finance them. The biggest mistake mechanics make is going into debt to the snap-on man. Tool boxes don't make money, The tools combined with knowledge always results in a pay day if the tools are paid for. I myself could only ever afford Craftsman. Those boxes in my pictures are harbor freight with snap-on decals I put on. Fooled many even the snap on guy at first glance.

props to your son for knowing what he wanted, knew what he was looking at, and was smart enough to bid on it, not bid too high, and have the cash money to make the purchase. I follow the auctions a little, but haven't made any big scores like that. Kudos to him.
 
You think it's as low as 40%? I don't man. Every mopar block I've ever had checked was out. ......and several I am sure before I knew it was even important to check. I am in agreement yall are doin some fine work. But that doesn't mean fine work cannot be done another way.

Plenty of precision block decking was done before a Rottler ever existed. The Storm Vulcan one of Macon's local shops uses is an antique, but does a fantastic job. It's an old 85B and does a nice job.......because he knows how to set it up. It looks just like this one.

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One of my friends has one like this - takes a while for a perfect set up, really depends on the guy doing it .
 
One of my friends has one like this - takes a while for a perfect set up, really depends on the guy doing it .

Oh it ain't no speed demon to set up. That's a fact. But lordy does it do a good job for an OLD machine. He keeps all his stuff WELL maintained, though. That's the key.
 
My brother-in-law Greg has worked for Landis Machine for a whole career from apprenticeship to near retirement now. They are one of the lead suppliers worldwide of cam and crank grinding machines, and I get to talk with him about their advancements. They have implemented a lot of new electronics to measure things like minute bed deflections and make corrections while running, and the accuracy improvements have been beyond 10-fold. But that is all going to new machines that can do new technology work like grinding 20' long gas generator crankshafts.

Things like milling decks are old hat and the tolerances simply don't require the new whiz-bang technology accuracy. The place in the next county up from me with the high $$ fantastic CNC machine will do all the local shop can do, but will charge $400-500 instead of $200.
 
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