Manual Transmission Advice.

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darten1972

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Hi all. I just finished a 5.9 Magnum swap in my 72 Dart. The car still has its original A904. I’d really like to start planning a manual trans swap but I have no idea what to go with? I’ve spent an aweful pile of cash on the crate motor and would like to try and setup a manual tranny as cost effective as possible. Looking for ideas and what you have all gone with in your rides? Any input would be helpful. Thanks in advance. The car currently has an 8.75 Suregrip 3:23.

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What kind of power are we looking at? Cam size? Power Adder? Tire size?
Sorry, picture doesn’t want to fully load.

I have had zero problems with the standard 3 finger borg and beck set ups. I have used Hays in the past just fine. McLoad (sp?) has excellent equipment.
I wouldn’t do anything fancy. Just your standard OE 4spd. If I could find a low gear trans to start with, I’d do that over the higher ratio, AKA A numerically lower number.
I would not look for a OE OD trans. Everything else stock.
 
What kind of power are we looking at? Cam size? Power Adder? Tire size?
Sorry, picture doesn’t want to fully load.

I have had zero problems with the standard 3 finger borg and beck set ups. I have used Hays in the past just fine. McLoad (sp?) has excellent equipment.
I wouldn’t do anything fancy. Just your standard OE 4spd. If I could find a low gear trans to start with, I’d do that over the higher ratio, AKA A numerically lower number.
I would not look for a OE OD trans. Everything else stock.


The motor is a fresh crate engine. It was custom built and dyno’d 452hp and 465 torque. No power adders.
 
The FIRST question you gotta ask is, carburetor or efi? If you'll ever go factory style efi, that will govern your flywheel choice as you would need crank position notches.

I ran a straight oe four speed, and that takes a 130 tooth flywheel, balanced for the 5.9 (NOT the 360).

If you want five gears, you can look at the passon five speed that is effectively a drop in, or the 5/6 speed late model trans that requires more specific companion parts.

I ran the diaphragm clutch and have had zero issues. It's more street friendly, from what I've heard, but I've not driven a three finger clutch in years.

If you're running lower final drive gears, consider the overdrive, but I wouldn't, if you're budget minded and don't have them already.
 
The guy can’t see to come up with the Pertinent information needed. I stand by my choices. But the actual disc and pressure plate I cannot zero in on. General question, general answer! Sorry I cannot be of more help.
 
The FIRST question you gotta ask is, carburetor or efi? If you'll ever go factory style efi, that will govern your flywheel choice as you would need crank position notches.

I ran a straight oe four speed, and that takes a 130 tooth flywheel, balanced for the 5.9 (NOT the 360).

If you want five gears, you can look at the passon five speed that is effectively a drop in, or the 5/6 speed late model trans that requires more specific companion parts.

I ran the diaphragm clutch and have had zero issues. It's more street friendly, from what I've heard, but I've not driven a three finger clutch in years.
Diaphragm or three finger?
The diaphragm has an easy to push clutch pedal. Excellent holding power.
The draw back? Removing the over center spring. It sucks on a great day.

3 finger? Draw back?
Well, sissies & wussies cry on the pedal effort. The older people are exempt from this complaint.
The Pro? EZ in, EZ out, EZ adjust, just like stock.
WTF IS THERE TO CRY ABOUT?!?!?!

I drive around for years with Competition plates right over 2500 pounds. I never cried. The competition cried! Ha ha Ha ha ha
 
Diaphragm or three finger?
The diaphragm has an easy to push clutch pedal. Excellent holding power.
The draw back? Removing the over center spring. It sucks on a great day.

3 finger? Draw back?
Well, sissies & wussies cry on the pedal effort. The older people are exempt from this complaint.
The Pro? EZ in, EZ out, EZ adjust, just like stock.
WTF IS THERE TO CRY ABOUT?!?!?!

I drive around for years with Competition plates right over 2500 pounds. I never cried. The competition cried! Ha ha Ha ha ha

I had to laugh out loud. I replaced the brake pedal bracket when I converted my car, and I couldn't get that PITA spring back on, so I left it off figuring I'd get to it later (This was pre-internet). Then when I found out the diagphragm clutch wouldn't take the spring, my decision was made!
 
I have similar power but a heavy 68 Barracuda FB @~3440# empty. Ima guessing you're running a 280*cam or better, and a chitload of cylinder pressure.
That combo is not really happy with a 2.66x3.23 =8.59 starter gear. 800 rpm in first gear translates to a minimum speed of 7.5 mph. At low rpm (Just off idle) it will be very jumpy and the more timing you throw at it, the worse it will be. So yur parade-days are over.
I know of just a couple of cures for this jumpiness
1)retard the idle-timing
2) Install waaaaaay more starter gear
3) slip the clutch
4) install a dash-mounted dial-back ignition timing device.
I had to do all four and it was just barely enough

I run the 3.09 low Commando box, with a 3.55 in the back, for a starter gear of 10.97.
And I run 12 to 14 * idle-timing
And a 276/286/110 cam (at .008 tappet lift)
This engine will idle down to 550 rpm in first gear with the dial-back taking out timing. This gets me to 4mph, and the engine will pull the pig around, on a flat,level, hard, surface, without any help from me. But any slower and it gets jumpy again.( yes it will idle down to 500, but I gotta put some toe on the clutch pedal).
I use a CenterForce diaphragm but not the CFII disc; I found it too harsh. I run a standard 340 disc. The CF used to rip the spring-retainers and throw out the springs of those factory discs until I reduced the static pressure. Now they do ok. At higher rpm the flyweights move out and take over the clamping.
So to recap my picks;
CenterForce diaphragm with NOT the CFII disc
Commando box with the 3.09low
3.55s minimum, unless you're a heck of a tuner then 3.23s but those are all wrong for this manual-trans combo.
Short-handled shifter
rev-limiter

Additionally;
That Commando box AFAIK does not come with a slip-yoke output; so you are gonna need to get a 67 up output shaft and a67up slip-yoke rear tailhouse.
That means the trans has to be almost completely torn down. Since this is a given,
Here are a few suggestions;
1) That trans IMO was never designed to be shifted where you are gonna need to shift it at, with a 280* cam. So to shift at 6000 plus; I would
street slick-shift second and third, second at the very least; and modify the cones to cast off their fluid faster. Run a 50/50 ATF/80-90EP oils
2) I would convert to a longtail, and
3) I would put the shifter back between the buckets, next to your thigh; then there's a good chance you will never again miss a shift
4) the trans-end levers absolutely have to be loctited on.
5) you are gonna need a rev-limiter
6) I hope that engine has had the oiling mods done, so it can survive at over 6000.
7) ball. The only kind of shifter handle to use is a ball. Do not install any other kind of shift handle; you'll probably be sorryyyyyyyyyy,lol.

Ok so why the 3.55s for a minimum?
Well if a 280* or better cam, that sucker will power peak around 5600 rpm... which will want a 6000 shift. With 26.5(83.25rollout) tires, this will be about 47mph with 3.23s and a 3.09 low. On the shift, the Rs will drop to ~3730.... so your combo better be making some torque down there.
To overcome this split, I rev the snot out of mine and drop in around 4400 for a good pull to 60mph.
But with 3.23s this pull ends at 60=4720. With 3.55s it ends at 60=5200; still not great but that's the way it is.
Anything more than 3.55s and you will soon be wishing for an overdrive.

In conclusion
I highly recommend to keep the automatic,but make it a 4-speed auto, with overdrive. Then you can run whatever gears that the 280* or better cam, wants. Like 60=5800 in second, which with an A500 would be, like, 4.88s,lol............ 65 in od would be 2770. With 3.55s and no-od, it would be 65=2930
' course the 4.88s were just a suggestion......... I guess 4.56s could work too,lol
I ran 4.30s for one summer, with a manual trans and an overdrive of course; First gear was pretty much useless with the 4.88s,as it was an extremely low starter gear.
 
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Don't the 66 A body 4 speeds have the 3.09 low?
 
I think so, but I don't know so.
In any case trying to find one could be tough, whereas the 64/65 keep popping up

64 & 65 do ...but not 66 IIRC. Which I should since I just went thru this 6 months ago. But my memory is what is used to be...lol

A chart from Alpar

A-833 Transmission Gear Ratios 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
6-cyl (also 64-65 273, 74-75 318) 3.09 1.92 1.40 1.00
Fine-spline V8 (most pre-1971) 2.66 1.91 1.39 1.00
Coarse-spline V8 (1966-70) 2.65 1.93 1.39 1.00
Coarse-spline V8 (1971-74) 2.44 1.77 1.34 1.00
Road Race T/A; most 1971-74 fine spline 2.47 1.77 1.34 1.00
Overdrive (mid-1970s and newer) 3.09 1.67 1.00 0.73
 
You can convert a ball and trunnion 3.09 trans to a slip yoke with the correct main shaft and output housing. It will be the larger yoke. When it's apart you can re-seal it and you would be good to go.
 
So I just recently finished installing a TKO600 with a hydraulic clutch setup in my Swinger, and I gotta say it's been one of the single best upgrades I've made in the 20 years I've owned this thing. I would never consider ever going back to the 833. Big whoop, I had to cut the floorpan open a bit, sheet metal can be replaced, cruising at 80 mph at 2300 RPM is the best. Maybe not the most cost effective, but I have no regrets. Jus sayin.....
 
me too! I agree and highly recommend it.
I didn't need it when my engine had the Hughes 223/230/110 cam. With 3.55s the starter gear was only 9.44, but that engine had a ton of cylinder pressure, so it was fine.
but boy-O-boy; just on size bigger cam,(230/237/110) and that 9.44 didn't do well any more; mostly because the minimum driving speed was now about 5.5 mph, and She was no longer a dump it and drive deal. The 3.09 cured that so I could keep the 3.23s.Then with a lil more tuning, I got her down to 4mph.
The starter is now 10.97, just about like the 2.66x 4.11 was. The 10.97starter, I have found, with all three cams (including the 292/292/108) is a pretty nice starter gear. And the 62% 1-2 split is actually very doable.

I did not know that 3.09/direct box came in the 74/75s
 
Diaphragm or three finger?
The diaphragm has an easy to push clutch pedal. Excellent holding power.
The draw back? Removing the over center spring. It sucks on a great day.

3 finger? Draw back?
Well, sissies & wussies cry on the pedal effort. The older people are exempt from this complaint.
The Pro? EZ in, EZ out, EZ adjust, just like stock.
WTF IS THERE TO CRY ABOUT?!?!?!

I drive around for years with Competition plates right over 2500 pounds. I never cried. The competition cried! Ha ha Ha ha ha
Rumblefish, I'm glad you have us older members exempt from the 3 finger clutch. I know I had to go with the the diaphragm a few years back.Not a woss just a lot leg and arm muscles getting weak.The town I live in now has a bunch of red lights and driving the old4 speed and manual steering has caused me to not drive it as near as much. Howard
 
LOL @ Howard
A competition 3 finger plate is no joke. Been there done that.
 
I still have a 3200 (IIRC) ZOOM, on the shelf since replaced by the CF diaphragm; not cuz I found the Zoom to be a problem, but I just always wanted to try a Diaphragm. Now that I have one, and just turned 66, I ain't going back to the Zoom.
 
I love the old Borg and beck three finger pressure plate's, still just old school I guess.
 
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