What chassis mods will I need on 440 conversion

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peterOZ

peterOZ

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Considering dropping in my 440 ( approx 500 h/p ) replacing my above mild 360 into a 68 f.b.
I am thinking shoemaker mounts.
Idealy it would see 80 street /20 strip. I know I will be facing different characteristic manners from the B.B compared to my 360 as I love how the package currently is with steering ( pwr steering) and handling. I feel the 440will have more dip at the front , is this true? ( still running cast heads and don't want to spend on allu heads if I don't need too) sort of doing this on a budget, thus why dropping in the worked 440 opposed to throwing $$$$ on the 360.

As the car is very clean I want to prevent any twisting or putting stress on body / chassis.

To help maintain the integrity of the chassis ( without chopping into anything ) what are my options?
Will chassis connectors help ? How can I improve rear end suspension. I may get itchy and use my t/brake built trans in here too but no massive slicks or tubs planed. Biggest slick it will see is whatever will fit under the rear.
Currently has a 8 3/4 ( with 742 pinnion /crown )

I am open to adding components in keeping the car held together but not real keen on chopping into anything as yet.
Thanks for your input
 
Schumacher creative services has good material to make that swap it easy. The particular in and out of power steering and power brakes I do not know. With my small block to big block swap in my Duster, it was all manual.

Sub frame connectors to stiffen in the car are an excellent idea. Here is a site (link below) that has more body and chassis stiffening components. Also, put in the search box here, member AndyF and search his posts for more information and pictures.

Look around here;
67-75 Mopar A Body Frame Connectors
 
I also suggest a pair of thicker anti roll bars and new T bars and rear springs if yours are a little worn or if after driving it when the conversion is done, it seems a bit loose to you.

For a driver I do think you will like the bigger anti roll bars a lot.
 
Frame ties, preferably the ones that weld in full length to floor pans and torque boxes (as posted in link rumblefish gave) in my opinion. This would take part of the load off the rockers, and help transfer the loading from sub frame to sub frame, especially with a sticky tire.
 
If you are able to swing it and remove some of the original Cast Iron off the motor (aluminum heads, water pump housing, etc.) you will actually not be that far away from the small block weight they claim. But the sentence I just wrote does cost money and I understand the budget situation because lord knows it will get out of hand real quick like.....

JW
 
frame connectors and bigger T bars are a must, if you want to drive it on the street at all. I have tried with drag bars or smaller than stock BB bars. not fun
 
Do it and never look back, did mine last year and very happy over the sb. I use the standard v8 torsion bars and it works fine with some frame connectors, you can use shumacher headers with p/s i believe too.
 
This is the place to start with lightening up the engine that isn't so super expensive.
Water pump and housing!
Cooling System-440 Source

Check FABO calssifieds for used intakes! Save a bundle, loose weight!
Heads are pricey though. Worth it when you swap and take advantage of the new and better air flow. But until the money tree grows.....
 
Get some big torsion bars in there, yeah it will "work fine" with standard V8 torsion bars as long as you don't mind taking every corner at 10 MPH. I have 1.0" t-bars with an aluminum-headed 360 and plan to put in even bigger ones after upgrading other suspension stuff more. BTW the ride is actually great, shocks have the biggest effect on ride quality anyway. Never heard someone complain about a stiff ride after upgrading torsion bars; shocks, yes but t-bars not really.

I'd also say subframe connectors and rear torque boxes are pretty much mandatory with that monster 440 torque, IMO at least.
 
MopaR&D said:
Get some big torsion bars in there, yeah it will "work fine" with standard V8 torsion bars as long as you don't mind taking every corner at 10 MPH. I have 1.0" t-bars with an aluminum-headed 360 and plan to put in even bigger ones after upgrading other suspension stuff more. BTW the ride is actually great, shocks have the biggest effect on ride quality anyway. Never heard someone complain about a stiff ride after upgrading torsion bars; shocks, yes but t-bars not really.

I'd also say subframe connectors and rear torque boxes are pretty much mandatory with that monster 440 torque, IMO at least.
Click to expand...
My car handles corners fine with the front sway bar it handles like the small block, i have the aluminum water pump housing and manual steering too along with aluminum alternater brackets and pulleys.
 
thesiren74 said:
My car handles corners fine with the front sway bar it handles like the small block, i have the aluminum water pump housing and manual steering too along with aluminum alternater brackets and pulleys.
Click to expand...

Sway bar helps a lot I'm sure along with the reduced weight from the aluminum pieces. I just always push people towards getting bigger torsion bars because you don't lose anything but it makes the ride and handling so much tighter and more "secure" feeling (but not harsh). With stock 318 bars my Duster felt like a sailboat on the freeway, now with the 1" bars the car feels like it's on rails well into triple-digit speeds. And I don't even have any sway bars installed on my Duster yet... should hopefully be welding in some homemade subframe connectors this weekend though.
 
Street driven = Big sway bars.
Track only = Skinniest sway bars.
Street Strip = ?????

What say you guys?
 
I have a "B" motor in my Scamp and it's good . You will need stiffer T-bars , frame connectors , and, I suggest an engine limiter and a 6point roll bar . With a "RB" motor you can't use power steering or power brakes . there just isn't enough room . I also suggest beefier rear springs and pinion snubber . You'll need it .
 
I may be in the minority here, I had a 68 Fomula S 383. Wish I hadn’t sold it. But I think I would stay small block for the handling and ease of driving. I guess it really depends on how you are using the car. I drove that S as a daily driver. Don’t get me wrong, HP and TQ are great, but I would maybe think a 408 or something similar instead.
Pretty sure I am in the minority.
 
Naaaaaaa, I’m a small block guy. The A engine in an A body is a perfect combo for most everything your doing.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Street driven = Big sway bars.
Track only = Skinniest sway bars.
Street Strip = ?????

What say you guys?
Click to expand...

Thank you guys for all your input.
I am sure i have more questions to come. i think the above quote by rumblefish360 deserves an answer if there is a magic solution to the formula :)
 
Honestly, if everything is in good shape, the answer is "not much". That said, unless you already have the 440, get a 400 or 383. You'll thank yourself when it's time for exhaust.
 
Shumacher headers work very good. Easy exhaust routing nicely tucked up against the floor pan.
 
I take my car 100-200 mile drive without any issues, s-turns straights no problem, maybe i have an anomaly car idk? It's so much better everywhere in the rpm range.
 
If you talk to the people who've really had a big block A body, instead of the armchairs, you discover they handle surprisingly well. @abodyjoe will vouch for that.
 
I’ll say I really didn’t have an issue with my 400B in the ‘72 Duster. I do look forward to the last engine lightening step, heads!
 
peterOZ said:
Thank you guys for all your input.
I am sure i have more questions to come. i think the above quote by rumblefish360 deserves an answer if there is a magic solution to the formula :)
Click to expand...

No answer to this and never will be. It all comes down to owner preference and what they are willing to tolerate. It's an old car with old engineering. Embrace it and make the car ride and perform as you see fit. If you want to ride and feel what modern cars offer, go drive a modern car for the experience.

Working on putting the RB in my car now. Not changing a damn thing from the H code front end components as installed from the factory and have no desire at this point. I use to own and modify a bunch of Ford trucks back in the day with H beam suspensions so there is no way my car will handle worse than that lol.....

Cheers,
JW
 
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rumblefish360 said:
Schumacher creative services has good material to make that swap it easy. The particular in and out of power steering and power brakes I do not know. With my small block to big block swap in my Duster, it was all manual.

Sub frame connectors to stiffen in the car are an excellent idea. Here is a site (link below) that has more body and chassis stiffening components. Also, put in the search box here, member AndyF and search his posts for more information and pictures.

Look around here;
67-75 Mopar A Body Frame Connectors
Click to expand...

Those connectors are better than nothing, but square tubing is stronger. The torque boxes will help too . welding the pinch seam solid where the firewall meets the floor can help some. front end stiffeners under the fender well would be less conspicuous then front j bars also. All this will help , of course a 6-8 point cage would be even better----------jmo
 
SLOPAR72 said:
No answer to this and never will be. It all comes down to owner preference and what they are willing to tolerate. It's an old car with old engineering. Embrace it and make the car ride and perform as you see fit. If you want to ride and feel what modern cars offer, go drive a modern car for the experience.

Working on put my RB in my car now. Not changing a damn thing from the H code front end components as installed from the factory and have no desire at this point. I use to own and modify a bunch of Ford trucks back in the day with H beam suspensions so there is no way my car will handle worse than that lol.....

Cheers,
JW
Click to expand...
I absolutely hated that I beam suspension crap !
 
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