which direction to take?

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Kllrbee

Kllrbee

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Hey Guys,
I guess this could be LCA bushings shot part 2.
So I took my car to the local Mopar shop. I didnt want to but I thought a pros opinion couldnt hurt. Basically what I thought, bushings shot. Upper and lower. Sway bar, strut, basically all. Also, LBJs not bad, but wrong for the car....weird.
His advice was actually pretty unexpected. Just get new Tubular Uppers, Torsion bars, sway bar, adjustable struts, and reconditioned Lowers. Do it all in your garage. Not worth the labor cost to replace bushings. Bolt it all in and come back for a custom alignment.
I got 2k to spend...no more. Parts and labor. Alignment included. Can I do this? Lets make this happen.
 
Depends on what you are doing with the car. And it depends on the condition of your hard parts. If the Torsion bars are not nicked or scarred do you need to replace them? As for the control arms, you have to remove them anyway and just take them to a machine shop with a good press and they will do the work.... It's still the same amount of work involved for you except a little running around town.

However if you are looking for reasons to do an upgrade that's out of my department so others will chime in but what you need done is exactly part of my project now and I may have 600.00 or so in it and the same amount of work.... But I am OK with the stock suspension and steering also....

JW
 
What is the purpose of the car?
Get the ALL the parts required to get you there.
Not worth taking front end apart to replace a couple of worn bushing
Take entire front end apart in your garage if you are capable
Not worth having somebody do it.
If you pay a shop check them out!
 
Definitely depends on what your using the car for. Daily street type driver, then utilize as many stock styled off the shelf parts as possible. Heck even with spirited street machine you can get away with the stock styled stuff. But if your wanting a canyon carving g machine then it’s time to drop some cash and get serious. I went with QA1 uppers, lowers and K frame, and now looking back, although it all looks cool and works just fine, it was money I could have put to use somewhere else.
 
I'm not sure I completely agree, but he has a very valid point. If you're paying someone else labor then he's totally right. If you can change the bushings and ball joints yourself then replacing the UCA's and stuff is still gonna be more. But, there are significant advantages to replacing all the stuff with more modern parts compared to just replacing the bushings. And at this point all that suspension has been around for a long time, so replacing it isn't a terrible idea. And while the use of the car is a consideration, even a weekend cruiser will benefit from replacing all of that stuff.

For $2k you can do all of it pretty easily if the goal is just a decent handling street car. From your other thread I recall you were already looking at adding the 1.03" PST torsion bars.

I know what I would do, but before I post a list for you, do you have the 5x4" bolt pattern or 5x4.5"? Because that will make a difference in what you need.
 
For some perspective, I just rebuilt my front suspension/steering (340 T-bars / disc brakes):

$341.00 for the PST super standard stock rebuild kit (with 10% off FABO discount - shipped)
$320.00 to have NAPA Auto Parts press out my old upper and lower bushings and press in the new ones. And remove/install the new upper ball joint
$80.00 for an alignment at a reputable shop
_________________________________
$741.00 total


*I was quoted $2000 plus the rebuild kit for a reputable shop to do the work
 
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I'm about the same price for the control arms ($75/each), BUT every arm I do goes through my hot tank and bead blast cabinet. Then they get painted.
 
Thnx guys. Its a weekend cruiser.
Its the 4.5 bolt pattern with later A body disc brake conversion. Ill definitely do the work myself.
Id like to upgrade and replace, but I guess Im just wondering if its worth replacing the CAs or just the bushings. I thought it was curious the shop said to just replace the arms completely.
 
You can replace the LCA and UCA bushings yourself if you buy the Prothane poly insert bushings WITHOUT outer shells. On these all you do is heat and burn out the rubber with a bernsomatic torch with a propane cylinder, and leave the outer shells intact. The new polyurethane inserts slide right in. A prothane upper and lower bushing kit is so inexpensive and easy to install this way. No hydraulic press needed no risk of bending a control arm etc. Prothane sells polyurethane strut rod bushings too. I got all these thru summit racing. They are available in red and black. I got them in black for both barracudas. My LCA pins drilled for grease fittings I got from firm feel.

I did the energy suspension polyurethane insert bushings on my 94 Chevy pickup front and back upper and lower control arms, leaf springs. Burn out the rubber, leave the outer shells, grease em up, reuse the inner bushing tubes if kit doesnt come with em. I did this on my truck probably 17 years ago. Still great. So insert bushings are just fine. Proof positive you dont have to press out the outer shells to replace bushings.

You can even get new LCA pins that are drilled with a zerk fitting

Screenshot_20190713-164957_eBay.jpg
 
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1969reddart said:
For some perspective, I just rebuilt my front suspension/steering (340 T-bars / disc brakes):

$341.00 for the PST super standard stock rebuild kit (with 10% off FABO discount - shipped)
$320.00 to have NAPA Auto Parts press out my old upper and lower bushings and press in the new ones. And remove/install the new upper ball joint
$80.00 for an alignment at a reputable shop
_________________________________
$741.00 total




*I was quoted $2000 plus the rebuild kit for a reputable shop to do the work
Click to expand...

320.00 just to press the bushings in and out ?
Seems spendy !
 
Kllrbee said:
Thnx guys. Its a weekend cruiser.
Its the 4.5 bolt pattern with later A body disc brake conversion. Ill definitely do the work myself.
Id like to upgrade and replace, but I guess Im just wondering if its worth replacing the CAs or just the bushings. I thought it was curious the shop said to just replace the arms completely.
Click to expand...

It’s not that surprising. You can spend $100 between the K7103 offset UCA bushings and half decent ball joints. And then you still need to remove the bushings, might need to buy a ball joint socket, etc. And assuming your control arms are in good shape that’s still only going to get you to about +3* of caster.

Or you just buy a set of QA1 UCA’s for $300, don’t have to do anything other than the install because they come with bushings and ball joints and you won’t have any issues getting +4 or 5* of caster, which will improve handling and steering feel.

So since you’ve already gone BBP, this is what I’d do

Qa1 UCA’s - $300
Bergman Auto Craft - Home of the Modern Muscle Car

Qa1 strut rods- $213
Bergman Auto Craft - Home of the Modern Muscle Car

Bilstein shocks front and rear - $488
Bergman Auto Craft - Home of the Modern Muscle Car

Bergman Auto Craft - Home of the Modern Muscle Car

Delrin LCA bushings - $75
Bergman Auto Craft - Home of the Modern Muscle Car

New pivot pins -$125
Firmfeel Mopar Suspension and Steering

Hellwig front sway bar - $279
Hellwig 55917

Proforged lower ball joints -$85
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Ball Joints 101-10129

1974 DODGE DART Proforged Ball Joints 101-10128

PST 1.03” torsion bars, clips and boots-$263
1.03" Torsion Bar Master Kit - Rubber - A Body

Grand total on that is $1,828.

So yeah, I spent all your money with the alignment. But when you’re done with all of that you’ll have a great handling cruiser that you should never have to revisit as far as suspension components are concerned, and will have no problem taking a nice modern alignment.

Yes, you could use poly LCA bushings which are cheaper. You’d still need the upgraded LCA pivot pins, especially because the greasable function with the poly bushing. I list that one with the Delrin bushing not because you need to grease it, but because they’re a perfect fit. You will have to remove the outer shell from your LCA’s to use those, but in my opinion it’s worth it. The drawback with the poly inserts is that they don’t always fit tight into the old shells. If they do they work great, if they’re loose, not so much.

Peter Bergman is a member here (@GMachineDartGT), and Bergman Autocraft now has some of the best prices too.

If you can weld a little, he also has reinforcing plates for the stock LCA’s for $30. You can look up Jim Lusk’s video on YouTube on how to install those
 
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Wow 72...quite a list. That should get me started, thats for sure.
If I end up keeping the LCAs, Ill definitely weld on the stiffening plates.
Thanks for the advice and the list.

One question on the LBJs that I have had a tough time with. Your list has the 74. I suppose I would use the later years cuz I have the later years conversion? Even though I still have the 69 LCA?
I know thats how it is for the UCA, but Ive been confused about the LBJ regarding that.

Thanks again for the list. Very helpful.
 
Kllrbee said:
Wow 72...quite a list. That should get me started, thats for sure.
If I end up keeping the LCAs, Ill definitely weld on the stiffening plates.
Thanks for the advice and the list.

One question on the LBJs that I have had a tough time with. Your list has the 74. I suppose I would use the later years cuz I have the later years conversion? Even though I still have the 69 LCA?
I know thats how it is for the UCA, but Ive been confused about the LBJ regarding that.

Thanks again for the list. Very helpful.
Click to expand...

Correct, if you’ve got the 73+ disk conversion you use the 73+ lower ball joints. The LCA’s are the same 67-76 except for the sway bar tab mounting locations, so using the later ball joints is no problem.

Here’s Jim Lusk’s video on LCA repair


And the one he has on LCA bushings removal
 
Kllrbee said:
Very good. Thanks for clarifying.
Click to expand...

No problem!

As for the list, if you need to wait on any of the stuff because of cost the first thing I would wait on is the sway bar. Not that it won't make a big difference, but because you can add it after you have the car aligned without screwing up the alignment. And you're already going to notice a big improvement in handling with the 1.03" bars, new bushings and alignment.

Same goes for the shocks. Now, if you wait on the shocks you may not be nearly as impressed with the ride quality you get with those 1.03" bars. It won't be terrible (probably still better than what you've got now!), but larger bars need better shocks to maintain ride quality. But if finances are tight those are the things you could put off without having to go back later and have another alignment done or tear apart suspension work that you already did.
 
Kllrbee said:
Thnx guys. Its a weekend cruiser.
Its the 4.5 bolt pattern with later A body disc brake conversion. Ill definitely do the work myself.
Id like to upgrade and replace, but I guess Im just wondering if its worth replacing the CAs or just the bushings. I thought it was curious the shop said to just replace the arms completely.
Click to expand...
Just replace the bushings.
If you have an local parts store, they'll often press the bushings for you.
Or you can buy the tools to do it if you really want.
The best thing you can do is start with new bushings. If you want - using the Moog offset bushings in the UCA will let you get a little agressive alignment.
That should should set you back far less than 1K.
Check the LBJ per shop manual. Some vertical movement unloaded is normal.
Upper ball joints are the only ones that may be worth paying someone to change. Depending on what they charge and whether you like having all the tools.
The best bang for your buck for improving will be a front sway bar, and after that larger t-bars. .990 or 1.03 will both be pretty big steps up from what you got and plenty for street tires and what you intend. I think blunblu has covered the details pretty thoroughly.
 
Here is what we can offer you:

Control Arms With Discount: $305
G-Max Tubular Upper Control Arms

Lower Control Arm Rebulding Kit(Greasable Pivot Shafts)with Discount: $188
Performance Mopar Lower Control Arm Deluxe Rebuild Kit - A Body

Steering Linkage kit with discount: $224
Steering Linkage Kit

Front and Rear Bilsteins with discount:$404
Bilstein High Performance Shock Set - Front & Rear

Lower Ball joints (left and right) with discount $90
Lower Ball Joint

Front Sway Bar with Discount: $180
1 1/8" Front Sway Bar

Adjustable Strut Rods with discount: $260
Adjustable Strut Rods

Also shipping within the 48 states is free

Here is a link to the Mopar forum members discount:
A Bodies Only Member's Discount

Please let me know if you have any questions

Thanks
James From
PST
 
Thanks James.
First things first. Id like to get it home from the shop and start tearing into the front end before I even order anything. See what Ive got to work with.
Then Ill revisit this thread and decide on parts.
 
Kllrbee said:
Hey Guys,
I guess this could be LCA bushings shot part 2.
So I took my car to the local Mopar shop. I didnt want to but I thought a pros opinion couldnt hurt. Basically what I thought, bushings shot. Upper and lower. Sway bar, strut, basically all. Also, LBJs not bad, but wrong for the car....weird.
His advice was actually pretty unexpected. Just get new Tubular Uppers, Torsion bars, sway bar, adjustable struts, and reconditioned Lowers. Do it all in your garage. Not worth the labor cost to replace bushings. Bolt it all in and come back for a custom alignment.
I got 2k to spend...no more. Parts and labor. Alignment included. Can I do this? Lets make this happen.
Click to expand...
I bought a Harbor Freight press long ago and started just buying energy suspension kits and doing them myself in my driveway with a floor jack. Its easy.
Spray everything bolt with liquid wrench the day before. 2 lb hammer to tap on inside of uppers after loosening upper ball joint, loosen torsion bar adjuster after upper ball joint is popped loose, once t bar adjuster loosened...then remove ball joint nut the rest of the way and let lower drop down....loosen strut rod after, lower arm nut at front of k memeber, clip in torsion bar... back it all out towards rear.That.. after the obvious things like jacking it up putting it on stands taking off the the wheel , removing caliper tying it up out of the way...etc... point is it's not hard .
 
I just rebuilt my suspension with Moog upper and lower bushings because those have to be pressed in and just cheap auto store ball joints and tie rods and such cuz those are easy to spin on and spin off. And I also got one of those $300 plus estimates from a shop to just press in the bushings if I bring them the parts. My cure for that was a $89 Harbor Freight press, but I still have and have used for other things since. I could have just thrown it away it paid for itself 3 times over....
I drive a maximum and I mean a serious maximum of 2000 miles a year I won't look at the stuff for at least 5 years. I use it for summer cruising, some spirited driving, and as many times as affordably possible down the strip...
 
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Keep in mind this is a just do great for now suspension for what I need. after I finish completely getting the drivetrain sorted out I'll get the body and paint sorted out and the interior and then probably the only thing left will be tricking out the suspension...
 
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Yeah, I was looking at the bench top 6 ton they have. Honestly, Im sure I have access to a press thru friends anyways.
I just want to disassemble first cuz I believe I might have alot of mismatched parts. I think the previous owner kind of threw the suspension together thru various donor cars. Or maybe not. Cant say for sure til I dig in.
Thanks again.
 
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