What Camshaft

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hard to compare a reverse/ inverse flank roller (Jones) with flat flank rollers ( most everyone else)
he has an "unfair" mechanical advantage
shorter jones is most likely bigger at 200 and above and with really good high rpm stability
(which is why Krooser's kid is quicker off the corners)
 
If the Jones cams had an "unfair mechanical advantage" everybody would be jumping on the bandwagon using that design and changing it up to keep from gettin sued with copyright infringement. Jones cams are good, but they ain't the best in the world just like all the rest. I always love when somebody else tries to reinvent the wheel.

If jones cams equipped engines were winnin all the races, then we'd have something to back it up. They ain't.
 
The cam Jones recommended was a tad smaller than Bullet, at 240/245 @ .050", .557"/.558" valve lift w/ 1.6's, 110 lsa

Either way I go will be a custom grind. They ain't cheap, but it's only money.
I was about to suggest a cam duration @.050 starting @ .050 as well with as much lift as the head can handle. (As to take advantage of the heads air flow capability) Cpearce also has a nice cam from hughes engines that is worth a consideration.
 
JMO, buy whatever provides the best value to you. Ain't no way I'm spending 500+ on a hyd roller camshaft for a street car... nope. Same as the tti vs dougs debate. I'd send the OEM core out to get a more aggressive grind on it, spend the money saved on a better converter and kick the crap out of that expensive cam with a cheap converter.
 
I've reached out to Jones and received a recommendation from them. It's pretty similar to what Bullet spec'd out.
Not sure on how many have the technology but Mike can make a custom master from his computer and grind almost any cam for any engine. Don't many still have a finite selection of masters to grind from?

I know Comp, and I'm sure others, have high dollar cnc machines but I would think their shelf cams get ground on those. The old Bercos are still used for custom grinds. They are as good as any for most applications.

I do know that most high volume cam outfits farm out much of their work to the two big OEM cam grinders in Michigan.

I just sent an email to Mike Jones with some info on my heads that I just got from the PO. Just some accurate cfm numbers which may change the grind of the cam.

It's human nature to like the stuff you buy...no one likes buyer's remorse. Like George @ Camcraft Cams sez.... The best cam you ever used is the one that's in your engine right now.
 
Did not camcraft (the one in the south with the old timer) do early Direct Connection cams and maybe even the factory masters?

let me splain a little more
you CANNOT take a flat tappet lift curve and put it on a flat flank roller- cant be done
you can increase the duration
trying to do quicker ramps on a flat flank roller increases the side thrust
this is one reason for the larger roller wheels and larger cam cores and base circles on custom blocks
the grinder has to pick how much side thrust he is comfortable
the way you make it work if you have the capability to generate profiles to the N'th degree is to undercut the flank
gets the lifter pushing up more and sideways less
you can get a similar lift curve with around 8 crank degrees less duration- again depending on where you want your tradeoffs
now you do not have to use all of this 4 degrees on each side to go balls out acceleration
you can back off the opening and closing to be more gentle and still have a powerful lift curve
That's the result of all the work Mike's dad Dick Jones and Brother Rick and Mike did on some high buck cam development programs
Special Indy engines, etc
NOw, granted, others can have a slight inverse by using the smallest wheel their auto CNC cam grinder will allow- they go by various names
not the same as a super small wheel
comp has some
Engle has some smaller wheel grinds ( i do not know for sure who did the masters but Dick Jones and Jack were said to be tight, as they were with Ed Winfield

I have no Idea how much Crower's INRAD grinds are inverse and if there has been any recent development
and some (not to include specifically any of the above) could not get rpm from their inverse radius attempts
It took a lot of R&D
Bottom line is that there is a mechanical advantage to using an inverse radius flank profile
There is a recent post by Aj where he states that 7 degrees made a surprisingly big difference
we advance cams 4 degrees to make a difference
the difference between inverse and flat flank can be huge
and if you were running one would you tell?
No you put a sponsors sticker on the car :)
 
Here at Crower we have a whole line of INRAD masters....ask away I can answer most any of the questions. I have all the books right next to me and can quantify the first derivative "Velocity" as to compare apples to apples or roller to INRAD roller.
 
There you go- ask the expert at crower
In my experience you can tweak the design for an easier close
Crower Understands Mid lift and I would not be surprised if their cams expect to move the valves with mid lift in mind
(It's amazing how many rocker arm companies ignore this giving not optimal vlave motion even with a good cam- more wear, limiting revs. etc
Crower also pioneered "back-set trunion" rockers
giving you a longer rocker for better arc and allowing the adjuster to be moved back away from the head (less grinding for larger pushrods etc) (or allowing taller ratios)
WELL WORTH IT
 
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The cam Jones recommended was a tad smaller than Bullet, at 240/245 @ .050", .557"/.558" valve lift w/ 1.6's, 110 lsa

Either way I go will be a custom grind. They ain't cheap, but it's only money.

If you are looking for something that is more "off the shelf" (read: cheaper), then you might want to look at one of the Howard's Rattler series. You can find them for just under $300 on Ebay right now. Those are ground on 109 lsa (close to the 110 you are looking at). Here's a link to where they used the smallest one (280/288, 227/235@0.050) in a 416 stroker (340 based) build...

Engine Build: 416ci Mopar Pulls 475 HP

Pretty impressive numbers...and that's with 1.5 rockers and heads that appear to flow less than yours. Of course they tried to use 1.6 rockers but, I think that was more of an issue with the Howards lifters being tall. Either way, I've already purchased that same cam to swap out what in the 408 that's in my W150. I have a 5.9 block, Indy X-heads, 9.6:1, Crane 1.6 rockers, Air-Gap, and QF 735-SS. Currently running a Crower 34416 (284/284, 224/224, on a 114 LSA, installed at 110) and it's just too soft down low for me (pulls hard from 2600-6000).

The next size up (Big Mama) is 235/243 and the largest (Big Daddy) is 243/251. Those might be closer to what was recommended to you. Howards recommends installing at 103 CL but, given that you're putting that engine in a Dart with a good converter, I'd look more towards installing at 105 or 106 to kill off some of the low end...unless you just want to fry tires.
 
If you are looking for something that is more "off the shelf" (read: cheaper), then you might want to look at one of the Howard's Rattler series. You can find them for just under $300 on Ebay right now. Those are ground on 109 lsa (close to the 110 you are looking at). Here's a link to where they used the smallest one (280/288, 227/235@0.050) in a 416 stroker (340 based) build...

Engine Build: 416ci Mopar Pulls 475 HP

Pretty impressive numbers...and that's with 1.5 rockers and heads that appear to flow less than yours. Of course they tried to use 1.6 rockers but, I think that was more of an issue with the Howards lifters being tall. Either way, I've already purchased that same cam to swap out what in the 408 that's in my W150. I have a 5.9 block, Indy X-heads, 9.6:1, Crane 1.6 rockers, Air-Gap, and QF 735-SS. Currently running a Crower 34416 (284/284, 224/224, on a 114 LSA, installed at 110) and it's just too soft down low for me (pulls hard from 2600-6000).

The next size up (Big Mama) is 235/243 and the largest (Big Daddy) is 243/251. Those might be closer to what was recommended to you. Howards recommends installing at 103 CL but, given that you're putting that engine in a Dart with a good converter, I'd look more towards installing at 105 or 106 to kill off some of the low end...unless you just want to fry tires.


Yeah that Crower cam really needs a converter of 2,500rpm or we can change that LSA to a 110 and that would make it hit harder for sure. That cam is designed for EFI and not really a carb setup.
 
Yeah that Crower cam really needs a converter of 2,500rpm or we can change that LSA to a 110 and that would make it hit harder for sure. That cam is designed for EFI and not really a carb setup.

I wasn't worried about a stall in the truck, since it's got an NP435 4-speed and 3.55 gears. At the time, I was mainly looking for something off the shelf and was under 0.500 lift to work with the heads that were on the engine so I could get it installed ASAP. I snagged the assembled short block and heads CHEAP! Figured I'd at least give it a try for a few years. LOL! It idles pretty smooth at 800-900 rpms. In a short bed 4x4, it can still easily break the tires loose (31's and a sure-grip). Even going up a slight on-ramp and hammering caused the tires to start jumping/barking, looking for traction.

Now, I'm just getting greedy for MORE! LOL! Time to port the heads and install the other cam!
 
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