One more cooling issue

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troop

troop

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I have a 72 duster 440 .030 over getting up to between 210 and 220. It has a dual core champion aluminum radiator with a 2950 CFM puller and an auxiliary pusher. 410 gears full spook rear end and 727 trans. There is no miss in the motor. No signs of a head gasket issue or crack in the block. No coolant in the oil or oil in the coolant. Checked for exhaust gas in the coolant. Zero. No leaks. 70/30 water/coolant mix. Temp remains constant idling or driving. Unless I’m going downhill with very little stress in the motor Laser temped the system. Inlet 178 outlet fluctuates between 178 and 163. I noticed that a couple of cores don’t seem to be flowing very well and one not at all. Would this account for the temp fluctuations at the outlet? I’m leaning towards the radiator being the biggest issue here but wanted to go to the experts to get some more input in case I’m missing something. Can you recore an aluminum radiator? Or is it even worth it?? Thanks in advance!!
 
Sounds like a radiator issue to me. Or airflow through it is completely non-existent. Generally aluminum radiators can't be recored. Why not call Champion and talk to them about it?

I don't know where in Cali you are, but they are in Orange County. I drove down to their shop to pick up the radiator for my wagon.
 
flingdingo said:
Sounds like a radiator issue to me. Generally aluminum radiators can't be recored. Why not call Champion and talk to them about it?

I don't know where in Cali you are, but they are in Orange County. I drove down to their shop to pick up the radiator for my wagon.
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Thanks. I will cal them. I’m pretty close to them too.
 
I would check your gauge and sending unit for accuracy. If the temperature of the inlet coolant is 178, why does the gauge read 210? You might be trying to solve a problem you don't have.
 
Garry in AZ said:
I would check your gauge and sending unit for accuracy. If the temperature of the inlet coolant is 178, why does the gauge read 210? You might be trying to solve a problem you don't have.
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I was thinking of that too but the temp at the sender is within a few degrees of the gauge
 
Coolant temp in the motor can be quite a bit warmer than external temp at the radiator. Your temps seem valid to me. You should see a 25° to 30° drop across the radiator, if it is cooling the way it should.
 
flingdingo said:
Coolant temp in the motor can be quite a bit warmer than external temp at the radiator. Your temps seem valid to me. You should see a 25° to 30° drop across the radiator, if it is cooling the way it should.
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I’m only seeing about 15 degree difference at the most
 
troop said:
I’m only seeing about 15 degree difference at the most
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Which tells me the radiator is plugged. Have you looked in the rad? Do the tubes that you can see look clean? Are all the fins relatively straight?

Also, what brand are your fans? Not everybody's "2950 cfm" is the same.
 
flingdingo said:
Which tells me the radiator is plugged. Have you looked in the rad? Do the tubes that you can see look clean? Are all the fins relatively straight?

Also, what brand are your fans? Not everybody's "2950 cfm" is the same.
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I tend to agree. Don’t know the fan brand.
 
Do you have a shroud? ( I'm part of the anti shroud contingent!)

Also what is the stall speed of your TC, I assume you have an in rad trans cooler, if so something I recently thought about is high stall TCs might produce more heat than lower stall speed ones and that heat would need to be pulled out by the rad? High stall speed auto trans experts please chime in (it was just a thought I had, I have no idea if it is correct)
 
Dana67Dart said:
Do you have a shroud? ( I'm part of the anti shroud contingent!)

Also what is the stall speed of your TC, I assume you have an in rad trans cooler, if so something I recently thought about is high stall TCs might produce more heat than lower stall speed ones and that heat would need to be pulled out by the rad? High stall speed auto trans experts please chime in (it was just a thought I had, I have no idea if it is correct)
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I do have a shroud although a small one. I can feel extreme heat being pulled away. I have a 2400 stall TC and an external/separate trans cooler (not connected to the radiator)
 
troop said:
I do have a shroud although a small one.
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photos and measurements please. I did a calculation on another posters shroud and it was about 45% blockage of air flow.

troop said:
I have a 2400 stall TC and an external/separate trans cooler (not connected to the radiator)
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That rules out my TC stall speed thought!
 
Dana67Dart said:
photos and measurements please. I did a calculation on another posters shroud and it was about 45% blockage of air flow.


That rules out my TC stall speed thought!
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Ok. I will get pictures and send a measurement tomorrow I’m at work at the moment.
 
Are you getting hot sitting or hot when you get up to highway speed? With 410 gears, your rpms are probably pretty high and that absolutely creates some heat. If your shroud is covering the entire surface of the core, you might not be allowing the 60mph air to pass through the radiator. Rather it could be getting trapped by the shroud. If those temps come back down at idle, you probably also have a volume issue. That could be a blockage in the radiator or the radiator just might not be big enough. Dual 1" is decent but there are bigger dual row rads (ours is one of them) that hold a lot more fluid and that could be the difference between running 220 and 190. (it was for me)
 
Ccas said:
Are you getting hot sitting or hot when you get up to highway speed? With 410 gears, your rpms are probably pretty high and that absolutely creates some heat. If your shroud is covering the entire surface of the core, you might not be allowing the 60mph air to pass through the radiator. Rather it could be getting trapped by the shroud. If those temps come back down at idle, you probably also have a volume issue. That could be a blockage in the radiator or the radiator just might not be big enough. Dual 1" is decent but there are bigger dual row rads (ours is one of them) that hold a lot more fluid and that could be the difference between running 220 and 190. (it was for me)
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Do you have a website?
 
troop said:
Do you have a website?
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Ccas said:
Are you getting hot sitting or hot when you get up to highway speed? With 410 gears, your rpms are probably pretty high and that absolutely creates some heat. If your shroud is covering the entire surface of the core, you might not be allowing the 60mph air to pass through the radiator. Rather it could be getting trapped by the shroud. If those temps come back down at idle, you probably also have a volume issue. That could be a blockage in the radiator or the radiator just might not be big enough. Dual 1" is decent but there are bigger dual row rads (ours is one of them) that hold a lot more fluid and that could be the difference between running 220 and 190. (it was for me)
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My shroud is small and only takes upabout 2/3 of the radiator. I’m going to post pictures later today
 
troop said:
Do you have a website?
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Very FIRST thing I would do is to backflush that thing.
I like to get my air nozzle and garden hose both in the bottom hose and pack a wet rag around them.
Then give it a few seconds of water then hit the air.
(You probably want to be mindful of where the water that comes out the top hose is going to go because it's probably going to be nasty):D

This is free and at the very least will answer some questions for you.
 
TrailBeast said:
Very FIRST thing I would do is to backflush that thing.
I like to get my air nozzle and garden hose both in the bottom hose and pack a wet rag around them.
Then give it a few seconds of water then hit the air.
(You probably want to be mindful of where the water that comes out the top hose is going to go because it's probably going to be nasty):D

This is free and at the very least will answer some questions for you.
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I will give that a try thanks
 
Ok Here is the fan, shroud and radiator set up. The fan is 17 inches and it supposed to be at 2950 CFM. The radiator is 19.5” x 27”. I remove some of the coolant so you could see the flow that begins at about 180°. The videos are at about 190°

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It won’t let me post the video because it says it’s too large but here is a picture of the coolant flow at 190°

392C9208-161B-4F79-BE6C-CC3DBB63230E.jpeg
 
Your shroud is blocking off more of the radiator than it includes. You need a shroud that includes the full rectangle of the core. Also, if you have a pusher on the front, unless it is completely out of line with the inside fan, they are somewhat cancelling some of each other's air movement. 2950 is nowhere near the needed amount for a high performance engine. The absolute smallest I would use would be 3300 and I would rather have 4000 or higher. You get that core seeing more air flow and I just bet you fix your problem.
 
troop said:
It won’t let me post the video because it says it’s too large but here is a picture of the coolant flow at 190°

View attachment 1715365077
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That sure doesn't look like a lot of flow. Tough to tell from a still picture. I would agree about asking the pulley diameters on the crank and water pump. Maybe even get that radiator flowed to assure it's working properly. Between water and air flow, SOMETHING is wrong. I would work on a better shroud that included all of the core, more fan and increase the water flow "somehow". It looks like you have a few things fighting against you.
 
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