Header fitment rant, Doug's
- Thread starter MOA
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plumkrazee70
Well-Known Member
I don't have any experience with Schumacher mounts, but my Doug's went in without trouble. However, my car is a 70, manuals and 1.03 bars.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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A lot thicker than my stock biscuits
As for the engine brackets, I'm pretty sure you cannot swap them side for side, but there are several bracket sets to chose from, over the years. Your brackets look kindof right to me, but like the guys say something looks odd.
My biscuits are squeezed flat between the brackets and the mounts; tight to both no airgaps.
I know you know,the trans mount positions the engine fore and aft, then the brackets, laterally. IDK if you have a problem, but I would remove both mounts and measure the offsets from bracket hole to mount hole and see if the stud offsets on the biscuits match. If the trans mount is off, it will give you fits.
My TTIs required two different thickness shims, so I could move the entire engine over to the passenger side, and level it there; and I lowered the rear mount.
I used stock old-style biscuits and a Schumacher torque strap. I had to clearance a couple of tubes for the T-bars, and another for the pitman stud. This on a 68 Barracuda with a 70Duster 340 K-member. The rear X-member was from a 73Dart; spool mount, with a poly insulator.
Hang in there; you'll get it figured out.
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replicaracer43
Grumpy Old Man
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That mount I bet is the problem, it doesn't look like the engine is in the right location
67 gt
A Wog boy who loves his Mopars !
67 gt
A Wog boy who loves his Mopars !
Here you go I hope this helps manual steering though. This is a 360 so drivers mount will be different.
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Scamp Fasty
Going Nowhere Fast
Yeah 360 is different but in 67 gt photo garage that 318 Teen engine looks like it has the same brackets as what MOA has.
67 gt
A Wog boy who loves his Mopars !
Looking at my mount pic reminds me I need to change those bolts little short on a few. I forgot to address that when I was fitting them.
Scamp Fasty
Going Nowhere Fast
Yup do like Michael Jackson and BEAT IT, BEAT IT
Scamp Fasty
Going Nowhere Fast
Scamp Rhonda
Well-Known Member
Mine did, fasteners and gaskets.
moparstud440
Well-Known Member
I used Doug Part Number D453 in my 73 duster and didn't have any fitment issues. Was an originally a /6 car, but swapped out the k member for a v8 and use v8 mounts.
moparstud440
Well-Known Member
I love your persistence in trying to blame the quality control on the Doug's while overlooking the fact that your ~50 year old car has factory body tolerances that are probably at least 3-4x as big as what is allowed for the headers. I mean come on, it's widely accepted that the rear axle in these cars can be shifted to one side or another by a 1/4". Or that the quarters can be off by that much or more. The tightest controlled measurements on these cars are the suspension points, and even those only had to be within a 1/4". But you want to blame the brand new headers? It's widely accepted that the quality control on all of the American made muscle cars was marginal at best, and that's coming from guys that love American muscle cars.
And that was before you used engine mounts that are known to be significantly different than the stock ones, or any of the other aftermarket parts you have that might effect engine placement and header clearance.
Have you tried using a pry bar to shift the engine over on its mounts? With the biscuit mounts especially if you loosen all of the engine and transmission mounts you can usually shift the engine from one side to the other by a good 1/4". If you have a little room on the passenger side you may just be able to shift the thing over. Heck you can probably shift the whole K frame over almost an 1/8".
It seems like your expectations of how easy should be to bolt a set of headers to an A-body is a lot different than what reality is. I mean seriously, if you search "header fit" 396 different threads come up, most of them talking about interference issues of half a dozen different brand headers. I would HATE to be the guy that was responsible for designing a set of headers for production on these cars with body tolerances in excess of a 1/4" and header to body clearances that are usually less than an 1/8". Think about that for a second. When they fit perfect the header clears a bunch of different parts by an 1/8", but the tolerances on the car are a 1/4".
Everybody wants bigger diameter tubes, access to all the spark plugs, clearance on two completely different steering boxes (the power box is gigantic), three different transmissions and a several different linkage options, and they want them to be cheap, buy them off the shelf and have them fit perfect. Ain't gonna happen. Try designing something for production and you'll see how ridiculous of an ask that is. It's amazing the Doug's and TTI's fit as many of these cars as well as they do.
Welcome to hot rodding, if this was easy everyone would do it. Instead even most of the guys that do it pay someone else to do most of the work.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
A-mother fuckin-MEN!
Some people just want something to ***** about, I mean 'rant' about.
Blu, you must of missed the pics I posted with the less than stellar flange machining. That's a quality control issue. Mopar has quality control issues too, I get that.
Since metal fabrication is what I've done all my life, I understand how much variation there can be and have the part look good but not fit good.
I may be able to shift the engine in the k frame a little? I'm certainly going to try, thanks for suggesting it.
As I said, I wish I had another one to try on the driver side.
To look at a problem and not consider all possibilities?
Well have to agree to disagree.
For those that just want to be dick heads, how is that being helpful? That's the kind of **** that stops people from asking questions.
There will be another person that comes along with the exact same problem, maybe my putting this out there might help them? My search didn't produce a lot on the topic, that's why the thread got started.
Since metal fabrication is what I've done all my life, I understand how much variation there can be and have the part look good but not fit good.
I may be able to shift the engine in the k frame a little? I'm certainly going to try, thanks for suggesting it.
As I said, I wish I had another one to try on the driver side.
To look at a problem and not consider all possibilities?
Well have to agree to disagree.
For those that just want to be dick heads, how is that being helpful? That's the kind of **** that stops people from asking questions.
There will be another person that comes along with the exact same problem, maybe my putting this out there might help them? My search didn't produce a lot on the topic, that's why the thread got started.
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SLOPAR72
Well-Known Member
Here's the deal MOA. You are valid in concerns about quality control. But we can go anywhere with anything today and find quality issues. Your car was part of a manufacturing line and just like a good pizza joint some days are better than others.... You have 2 options. Box them up and ask for a refund or make it work. Luckily you are a metal fabricator so atleast you have a skillset to make the moves needed and not destroy your tubes.
I am getting ready to beat up on a set of TTI's myself and it's a combination of me making something work when the paperwork says otherwise and a monday built car (lol) that needs some massaging for my RB to fit. It's hotrodding and there is not much more to say.
In all honesty if you are versed in metal fabricating consider building a set of headers. Truth be told a one off deal would end up much nicer than what you can buy "if" you have the skills. Past that beating the dead horse ain't getting it done to give the tubes the right moves and enjoy your car....
Cheers,
JW
Thanks, glad I'm not the only one.
A mentor told me a long time ago, why reinvent the wheel when you don't have to. In the interest of saving time, I bought headers.
It will save me time, just not with the results I hoped for.
If I screwed something up, I'll be the first to admit it and post it here.
I do appreciate the help.
A mentor told me a long time ago, why reinvent the wheel when you don't have to. In the interest of saving time, I bought headers.
It will save me time, just not with the results I hoped for.
If I screwed something up, I'll be the first to admit it and post it here.
I do appreciate the help.
j par
Well-hung Member
I for one like your rant...
Before I seen this thread I thought these things jumped out of the box and installed themselves the way people talked about them. Tti's too..
My cheap Summit headers were a pain, but only one small ding by the passenger side torsion bar. Otherwise lots of room and no problem with the clutch z bar.
By a long shot nobody's coming up with new headers and using new technology to make them. How long have these Doug headers say they've been around and how long is the same design been being used? Yes the technology I believe could improve tremendously..
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j par
Well-hung Member
Also once they're designed I don't really understand why the dougs are so much more expensive than Summit? Do they use a different material?
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