My Transformation 5.7 Gen 3 in 74 Dart Sport

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Kiddart1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
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Location
Macomb Michigan
A while ago (January 2017) I started asking a bunch of questions here and over on "A-Bodies only", regarding the swap I planed to do. My son started to get me thinking about it when he decided to put a 5.7 in his belvedere(still in the works)

My swap started because I was tired of running strictly race fuel in my 415sb motor, I started (December 2018)selling off as much of my running small block to a few members here on Moparts/A-bodies. once all the parts were sold I then stared to buy the gen 3 parts and pieces.

what I first started with was a 2004 Durango 5.7 with a large amount of internal issues. I paid $50 dollars for the core(and still have all the parts). then I started to piece it together and one small learning issue at a time. I decided to put that motor aside and purchase a 2007 running motor(as I was told from Carolina exchange, I will never due business with him again) that ended up being just a little better than the Durango core I bought. I was able to get away with a Hone job two new pistons, new bearings, oil pump, timing chain and gears and found a set of 09 eagle heads, new Head gaskets, Prefix intake, MSD hemi 6, TTI headers, TTI motor mounts, oil filter relocation kit hoses etc..

The motor is now in the car all bolted up and almost ready to fire up. It has taken me from January till today to be with in a few days of firing up. I could have taken a week off work and completed the entire swap in one week but I have many other things going on in my life besides my car hobby.(Wife, adult children, house, job(travel) and the most important is the honey due list) so at a snails pace I am getting there.

I cant say that during this swap it has all been troublesome but there are challenges as you go. I have really read and studied the guys blogs that have already completed there swaps and believe it or not, all the different swaps in all the different cars, its all worth reading about. all the way down to radiator hose selection and thermos stat temp.

I do have some pictures of the motor on the stand and in the car that I will post so hopefully I can help someone else down the road. if I have the pictures I will post them. I have had a lot of fun with this and it was just to prove you can get a junk yard pull out motor to run good and fun doing it.

Stay tuned for some pictures

UPDATE!!! 7-28-19

I was able to finally fire this motor up!!

But let me tell you how important is to pack the oil pump with Assembly lube or with petroleum Jelly at oil pump install!!!!

I hand cranked this motor backwards for about two hours sucking oil in the pump to prime and then forward with no luck of priming the motor. We finally decided to force the oil in from the oil pressure gage to get oil in the top of the motor. At no point did I feel comfortable that the motor was primed enough because I could not get oil to travel thru motor by hand cranking it.

At this point I was tired, hot, and cranky(pardon the pun) so I said the hell with it. I put the plugs in it and turned the power on to the MSD6 and let it eat.

The first turn of the key it fired for about 3 seconds then stopped

The second turn of the key she fired up and ran I shut off at about 10 seconds or less with no oil pressure but heard the air hissing up thru the rockers what a crazy sound

The third start it fired right off and the oil pressure came on like crazy, slowly climbing to 40psi then shot to 75 psi instantly!! what a relief!!!
(I felt if I burn up the bearings it was coming out to pack the pump anyways)

I let the motor run for a little bit and it started to surge the efi was starting to learn the motor so I thought.
* the reason for surging was I had the Map sensor for the MSD6 on the back of the throttle body and the two(Fast EFI/MSD6 were fighting for dominance. I unplugged the MSD6 map sensor plug and the idle flattened right out at 850rpm

It smelled like it was fat but really it was lean due to my eyes were burning a little, I have 110 octane in the car now that is old and cant wait to get 93 in it. So I have to sort that out and that's easy with the Fast EFI.

I think my starter is getting hung up on the converter so I may need to shim it back. While I was hand cranking I also unplugged the computers and cranked by the key then back to manual and heard what sounded like the starter hanging up on the convertor and then disengage, has anyone else noticed this? not a big deal but I have never had to shim a starter on a Mopar.

I have uploaded a video to You Tube and have the link. I am so far super happy with the what I see so far and hear, the 6.1 cam is invisible to super smooth idle. Enjoy the link and I now can't wait to hook up the exhaust tie up so loose ends with wiring and take it for a ride.

I am taking a few days off to spend time with my wife as I have been in garage since Thursday night. I will also add some still pictures to this as well



I can answer some questions as I am now experienced 5.7 transplant guy LOL
Would I do it again, you bet you bottom dollar I would!!!
 
Good job! Sounds great! Curious, how did you degree the cam?
 
I set the cam just like they did from factory, bottom gear with key way at 2pm and the timing dimple at 6pm, the cam dot was set at 12pm, also the timing chains have different colored teeth to help with this. I was told not to degree in a factory set up. I have found that some say you have to others say follow factory advise. so I followed factory advise.

did you have to shim your starter?
 
I did not. ATI flexplate, unknown brand converter in 904 with Magnum V8 mini starter. I'm thinking of resetting my cam. I had read it needed to be like 6 to 8 degrees advanced for piston/valve clearance. Yours sounds really nice at idle.
 
I have the flex plate from Mancini racing here is metro Detroit, I am not sure the manufacture. I have the 904 and mini starter as well. hmmm I guess I will search and fix. its was so nice to hear it finally run. thanks for the compliments.
 
UPDATE!!!!!
A video around the neighborhood from Sunday 9/15/19. I got into it a few times but never to the floor or into third gear under load. it sure is fun to drive and my gas gauge never moved(well very little). ran at the highest of 203 but steady at 190-193. I feel its a little hot but normal for a hemi. great oil pressure very good idle and street manors for sure. I have only run the startup tune that was in the MSD profile so I don't have the rev limit set(its low) and we were playing with the fuel tables while driving around yesterday. I hope the google link works.

Did I say it was fun to drive it?? oh and it rotates the 28x10.5w slicks very easy from a dig.



I would do this over and over again. what a fun time, I am actually enjoying looking at the car again.
 
ran at the highest of 203 but steady at 190-193. I feel its a little hot but normal for a hemi. great oil pressure

Nice and looks with sounding great! I had the factory thermostat (6.1 Hemi) which I believe is rated at 203 degrees. Where the OEM fans would start at 217 at low start and then high start would be 226. So factory Gen3 Hemi's run pretty hot for I guess emissions and MPG's from what I could find out online.

I ended up changing to a 190 thermostat and with using a Dakota Digital fan controller have now my fan to come on at 210 and off at 203. So even in almost 100 degrees in heavy city traffic does she does not go past 215. Which would still be a little cooler than factory. Then my Champion aluminum radiator with 190 thermostat will not go above 200 when my car is moving. So the fan does not run ever when my car is moving.

Now I live with this because I am only using a re-flashed factory PCM and Diablo tuner handheld program. If I had more tuning capability I would most like run a 180 fan and run even cooler with tunes to compensate for that.

Curious, when you are cold at start up what is your oil pressure at?
 
Would you go the same route you did with the MSD and carb intake or would you go factory efi next time? Your route seems the simplest but probably cost as much a harness and flashed pcm
 
I would go this way unless a good wiring harness fell into my lap that I didn't have to play around with that much. I went this way because I alreay had the EFI from my last setup so I figured lets roll with it. so far so good.
 
I agree. Although, had you asked me the same question, I would have gone(and did) go the other way. Only because I had more carb related fuel system parts. Starting from scratch is almost a wash. For a street app, the fuelie is hard to beat.
 
I have a little of everything. Carb hemi intake, car and truck efi intake, wiring harness for both and a 04 computer. I’m kinda on the fence for my build which is why I asked. If I was to go turbo immediately then I would go carb/msd for simplicity.
 
UPDATE!!!!!
A video around the neighborhood from Sunday 9/15/19. I got into it a few times but never to the floor or into third gear under load. it sure is fun to drive and my gas gauge never moved(well very little). ran at the highest of 203 but steady at 190-193. I feel its a little hot but normal for a hemi. great oil pressure very good idle and street manors for sure. I have only run the startup tune that was in the MSD profile so I don't have the rev limit set(its low) and we were playing with the fuel tables while driving around yesterday. I hope the google link works.

Did I say it was fun to drive it?? oh and it rotates the 28x10.5w slicks very easy from a dig.



I would do this over and over again. what a fun time, I am actually enjoying looking at the car again.



So I have a 5.7 swap on a 74 Sport in process. I have a 6.1 cam but stopped short of putting it in given the engine came out of a challenger w/only 12k mikes on it. But, I am dying to know, how well does that 5.7 move your sport? I can’t get the video to work but would love to hear all you have to offer about how it runs. Is the cam swap worth it given how low miles my 5.7 is? What kind of HP are you guessing you are putting down?
 
This is all very interesting. Very nice job you did! I went through but didn't see what transmission you used? Probably missed it.
 
I am with Ronald C . We need some more info guy! Amazing build! I am stuffing a 6.1;in a Demon and fear heat is my enemy. Your temp details sure made me feel better. I have learned so much from this forum I will never be able to repay the debt. Thanks for posting.
 
I am with Ronald C . We need some more info guy! Amazing build! I am stuffing a 6.1;in a Demon and fear heat is my enemy. Your temp details sure made me feel better. I have learned so much from this forum I will never be able to repay the debt. Thanks for posting.
Amen Sublime! Yourself included....
 
Hi RonaldC, Sublime, moparmadman,
I think the 6.1 cam swap is worth it for sure. (I set the cam just like the factory did, I DID NOT DEGREE THE CAM)the car gets up and really goes for it weighing 3000 with me in it. it pulls really nice going through the gears. I have not been to the track yet and will in the spring just to see. I am guessing a solid 11.0 et but would like lower.
so here is what I am running for my transmission
A904 built by Cope Race Transmissions RVMB(had from my small block that was in it before the swap)
4000(probly hits at 3800 with this motor) stall converter
8 3/4 rear with 4.30 gears
I did swap out the cam for the 6.1 to give it a little more pop and it does, the idle is just a little bumpy but nice.
the timing is set at flat 21 degrees just as the default in the msd box came. I will add more timing and play with that next summer as well. My son has a pretty hot timing curve we can play with that is from his buddy that has a challenger. might be two hot but we will see.
I am guessing the HP is right around 435 to 450 with a very conservative tune.
one thing I did do and am very happy to have done it was went with the 2009 and up eagle heads, that did bring the compression up to a little over 12to1 so I added a very thin shim to the head gaskets to drop that down to 11.0ish to 1. looking back I should have just left it alone and it would still run great on 93 octane. I just did not want to run anything higher than 93.
the Temp is floating just under 195 degrees with the 180 thermostat and that is common with a Big block motor on the street. from factory these run at 200 to 210 all day long and happy doing it. I do know a few guys not running a thermostat and they say they are at 180 tops. I was also told if you are running the original pcm that this may give you a small issue with o2 faults and send you to limp mode because the temp is to low. but one guy has the msd hemi 6 like me and only races so he is at like 150 and he moves out for sure.
the next thing I am going to do is sell my current fast ez efi system and upgrade to run e85 and some boost. my son is talking me into it.(but I am in no hurry to do this) the ez efi will run e85 I just need to swap the pump to e85 fuel friendly pump($100 at holley)
if I missed anything feel free to ask.
I do have another motor in the works at machine shop now we are seeing if it will punch out to 426 cubic inch. I should know in the next month or so(my sons next side job). I will take a 408 or 415 as well and smile all day long with that.

thanks
Kiddart1(Scot B.)
 
KD1 thanks so much for the info! You rock. If you ever get bored I started a thread on here titled 6.1 into 72 Demon. Of course it has been dormant for months while my Demon is in paint shop prison. I am not really a mechanic, more of a parts changer really. Folks like you and many on here have really helped me. I have met several of them and several have been in my shop drinking my booze and feeding my dog treats. In addition I have had multiple parts swaps etc with many members never once being disappointed. Literally the folks on here that I have interacted with are as advertised. Just plain good honest people. I am sure there is a knuckleball or two on here but I have not met them (yet)! Come summer many of us meet at misc car shows, I would love to see your build some day. Check out MITP in Minneapolis this summer. FABO has a tent and we eat and drink like pirates! Hope you can make it.
SLO
 
Hi RonaldC, Sublime, moparmadman,
I think the 6.1 cam swap is worth it for sure. (I set the cam just like the factory did, I DID NOT DEGREE THE CAM)the car gets up and really goes for it weighing 3000 with me in it. it pulls really nice going through the gears. I have not been to the track yet and will in the spring just to see. I am guessing a solid 11.0 et but would like lower.
so here is what I am running for my transmission
A904 built by Cope Race Transmissions RVMB(had from my small block that was in it before the swap)
4000(probly hits at 3800 with this motor) stall converter
8 3/4 rear with 4.30 gears
I did swap out the cam for the 6.1 to give it a little more pop and it does, the idle is just a little bumpy but nice.
the timing is set at flat 21 degrees just as the default in the msd box came. I will add more timing and play with that next summer as well. My son has a pretty hot timing curve we can play with that is from his buddy that has a challenger. might be two hot but we will see.
I am guessing the HP is right around 435 to 450 with a very conservative tune.
one thing I did do and am very happy to have done it was went with the 2009 and up eagle heads, that did bring the compression up to a little over 12to1 so I added a very thin shim to the head gaskets to drop that down to 11.0ish to 1. looking back I should have just left it alone and it would still run great on 93 octane. I just did not want to run anything higher than 93.
the Temp is floating just under 195 degrees with the 180 thermostat and that is common with a Big block motor on the street. from factory these run at 200 to 210 all day long and happy doing it. I do know a few guys not running a thermostat and they say they are at 180 tops. I was also told if you are running the original pcm that this may give you a small issue with o2 faults and send you to limp mode because the temp is to low. but one guy has the msd hemi 6 like me and only races so he is at like 150 and he moves out for sure.
the next thing I am going to do is sell my current fast ez efi system and upgrade to run e85 and some boost. my son is talking me into it.(but I am in no hurry to do this) the ez efi will run e85 I just need to swap the pump to e85 fuel friendly pump($100 at holley)
if I missed anything feel free to ask.
I do have another motor in the works at machine shop now we are seeing if it will punch out to 426 cubic inch. I should know in the next month or so(my sons next side job). I will take a 408 or 415 as well and smile all day long with that.

thanks
Kiddart1(Scot B.)
Chewing my nails off wanting to get mine running and on the road! So I will be running essentially a stock 5.7, w/EFI, came out of a 13k mile 2014 Challenger so “Eagle”. By virtue of the A Body swap in, I’m running TTI long tube. Transmision is a non-lock up 518. I have a 6.4 cam in hand but just on the fence if it is worth the effort of the swap. I just don’t know....

You posted a video of it running down the road but I couldn’t get it to open. Mind trying to share that again? I think your build is so close to what several of us are in process of building, we would love to see that jewel run down the road.

43C470AE-8D67-4702-97F1-0E18C258D14D.jpeg


6E2DD84C-FEB5-4F56-9921-3BE973382D0B.jpeg
 
Chewing my nails off wanting to get mine running and on the road! So I will be running essentially a stock 5.7, w/EFI, came out of a 13k mile 2014 Challenger so “Eagle”. By virtue of the A Body swap in, I’m running TTI long tube. Transmision is a non-lock up 518. I have a 6.4 cam in hand but just on the fence if it is worth the effort of the swap. I just don’t know....

You posted a video of it running down the road but I couldn’t get it to open. Mind trying to share that again? I think your build is so close to what several of us are in process of building, we would love to see that jewel run down the road.

View attachment 1715444628

View attachment 1715444629
If you have the cam, do it. It REALLY wakes it up! I have done a couple. Worth it.
 
6.4 into a 5.7 does???

do you mind sharing what all was required? Like I said, have the cam, new and in the box. Idea on HP gain? Videos?
I have no dyno numbers. The spring pressure of the 5.7 and 6.4 are very close. Stock 5.7 springs will work. Just slide the cam in. You still are able to utilize the VVT and MDS. I would guess an easy 30 hp.
 
I have no dyno numbers. The spring pressure of the 5.7 and 6.4 are very close. Stock 5.7 springs will work. Just slide the cam in. You still are able to utilize the VVT and MDS. I would guess an easy 30 hp.

The LC/LX forums pretty much all say you need the 6.4 valve springs with the swap, even some reports of engine damage without them. Could be operator error (or internet myth), but if the OEM application spec’ed a different spring, it seems prudent to match them.

Seems like the 30 hp is a pretty good guess, and from the limited dyno curves I have seen, no loss on the bottom end like some aftermarket cams have. Unless you are looking for more HP, seems like a win-win to me.
 
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