Suspension and steering help

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NorthernSwede

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Hi Guys!

I have a '66 Coronet that I'm thinking of upgrading the steering and suspension on. It's going to be a street car only but would like it to handle alot better than the clapped out stock parts but still be reasonable to ride in on longer trips.



Torque boxes, radiator support and inner fender supports are in the making also the LCAs are beefed up already

I'm running 235/65 -14 Coopers, and yes I know that's not optimal but I really don't want any bigger wheels.

The parts I have been looking at are the following and would like some input on my choices since budget isn't endless and I would like to not have to buy the same part twice :p


-Bilstein shocks from PST
-PST Adjustable strut rods
-PST Pivot shaft
-PST 1-1/8 Front Sway bar
-PST 7/8 Rear sway bar
-PST Tubular Upper control arms
-PST Super poly front end kit

-Mopar performance HD Leafsprings part nr P4452982 and P4452983
-Hotchkiss 1.1" Torsion Bars

And later down the road a Borgeson setup for the steering gear

Hope you have a lot of ideas and thoughts

And thanks beforehand
 
Last edited:
So your staying with OE style suspension just rebuilding it with stiffer parts.

My guess is it will be very drivable but it will probably be harsher, and more road noise.

Don't think you will be sorry.
 
Really the only things you need to do are:
* Replace those 'clapped out' bushings and joints. Check 'em. Don't assume good or bad. Sevice manual has the info needed for that. Wheel bearings readjust unless they show signs of damage.
* Install the factory handling package. Or go in logical steps considering the tires to be used. That would be larger t-bars, and a front sway bar first.
* New leaf springs if the current ones are worn out. I can't comment on those specific springs ather than the lengths seem to be correct for B-body.
For some comparison: Dodge Coronet, Charger and Super Bee Leaf Springs - Stengel Bros Inc.
* Rear sway bar last - too much rear roll stiffness can lead to trouble.
* Steering - Police type or 'firm feel' box for power steering.
* Set ride height and alignment. Use a little more negative camber than the factory recommendations. The FSM specs were based on tires with less grip, and assumed high crown roads.

That's really all you need.
Replacing worn out parts, installing a front sway bar, and good alignment will be the biggest changes you can make.

Consider this guy took his '68 RR to a track day.
Other than radial tires, its basically stock.
Not the best video, but thought the fact the guy drove it without issues for 20 minutes on a road course gives you some idea what the better factory packages are capable of.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...others-stock-68-road-runner-at-track-day.html
from his brother who posted "...( and it's fully stock, BTW.. unrestored, drum brakes, manual steering, bench seat..
thumbs.gif
)..."
This year he went back. Only difference was a more performance oriented set of tires and rims, and fresh brake fluid.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...nner-first-steps-what-shocks.html#Post2670606
 
Dana67Dart said:
So your staying with OE style suspension just rebuilding it with stiffer parts.

My guess is it will be very drivable but it will probably be harsher, and more road noise.

Don't think you will be sorry.
Click to expand...

Don’t know what else to do, the other option besides trying to improve upon stock suspension is getting an AlterK and StreetLynx?


Mattax said:
Really the only things you need to do are:
* Replace those 'clapped out' bushings and joints. Check 'em. Don't assume good or bad. Sevice manual has the info needed for that. Wheel bearings readjust unless they show signs of damage.
* Install the factory handling package. Or go in logical steps considering the tires to be used. That would be larger t-bars, and a front sway bar first.
* New leaf springs if the current ones are worn out. I can't comment on those specific springs ather than the lengths seem to be correct for B-body.
For some comparison: Dodge Coronet, Charger and Super Bee Leaf Springs - Stengel Bros Inc.
* Rear sway bar last - too much rear roll stiffness can lead to trouble.
* Steering - Police type or 'firm feel' box for power steering.
* Set ride height and alignment. Use a little more negative camber than the factory recommendations. The FSM specs were based on tires with less grip, and assumed high crown roads.

That's really all you need.
Replacing worn out parts, installing a front sway bar, and good alignment will be the biggest changes you can make.

Consider this guy took his '68 RR to a track day.
Other than radial tires, its basically stock.
Not the best video, but thought the fact the guy drove it without issues for 20 minutes on a road course gives you some idea what the better factory packages are capable of.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...others-stock-68-road-runner-at-track-day.html
from his brother who posted "...( and it's fully stock, BTW.. unrestored, drum brakes, manual steering, bench seat..
thumbs.gif
)..."
This year he went back. Only difference was a more performance oriented set of tires and rims, and fresh brake fluid.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...nner-first-steps-what-shocks.html#Post2670606
Click to expand...


It seems we are thiniking along the same paths except for the rear sway bar and steering gear.

What is the negative of getting a rear sway bar?
 
NorthernSwede said:
What is the negative of getting a rear sway bar?
Click to expand...
In simplest terms, the rear tires breaking loose; especially at higher speeds and/or slick down hills.
When that happens, its only a question of how much damage will be done.

NorthernSwede said:
It seems we are thinking along the same paths except for the rear sway bar and steering gear.
Click to expand...
Borgeson, if you can get it all worked out, is fine.
Probably best to go with Peter Bergman on that since he's dealt with the issues.

Don't need the following:
-PST Adjustable strut rods
-PST Pivot shaft
-PST Tubular Upper control arms
-PST Super poly front end kit

For street use I'd use polyurethane on the sway bar end links.
Maybe also the sway bar bushings - in which case get the 'polygraphite' or greasable mounts.
And if you are willing to do some fitting and measuring, the strut rod bushings.
With a B-body, I would like to think the aftermarket strut bushings are the correct dimensions, but assume they are not. See if AndyF or another trustworthy source has done the work on this. Hotchkis set up and run a B-body on tracks - so that's a good sign their stuff has been worked out. But your tires and intended use calls for a softer setup. There qalso may be some differences in '66 vs. next generation (for example in weight, or weight distribution) so keep that in mind.
 
Last edited:
NorthernSwede said:
Hi Guys!

I have a '66 Coronet that I'm thinking of upgrading the steering and suspension on. It's going to be a street car only but would like it to handle alot better than the clapped out stock parts but still be reasonable to ride in on longer trips.



Torque boxes, radiator support and inner fender supports are in the making also the LCAs are beefed up already

I'm running 235/65 -14 Coopers, and yes I know that's not optimal but I really don't want any bigger wheels.

The parts I have been looking at are the following and would like some input on my choices since budget isn't endless and I would like to not have to buy the same part twice :p


-Bilstein shocks from PST
-PST Adjustable strut rods
-PST Pivot shaft
-PST 1-1/8 Front Sway bar
-PST 7/8 Rear sway bar
-PST Tubular Upper control arms
-PST Super poly front end kit

-Mopar performance HD Leafsprings part nr P4452982 and P4452983
-Hotchkiss 1.1" Torsion Bars

And later down the road a Borgeson setup for the steering gear

Hope you have a lot of ideas and thoughts

And thanks beforehand
Click to expand...


Looks like you have a good plan. If you are looking to improve the over all performance. I would continue with what you have listed. The tubular arms are huge improvement as they have improved designed over stock when it comes to ability fine tune the alignment as well as the adjustable strut rods as with the adjustable strut rods with heim joints allows the suspension to unload and load quickly and smoother through its range of motion.

As for the pivot shafts, are you looking at the greasable or the oem style ?

Front End Kit:

If you are going to use the tubular arms, strut rods and greasable pivot shaft you may want to save the money and go with the steering linkage kit instead of the super front end kit as it contains the part you need to complete the rebuild and not end up with duplicates

You may also want to consider lower control arm stiffening plates as well to tighten up the control arms.

Thanks
James From
PST
 
Mattax said:
In simplest terms, the rear tires breaking loose; especially at higher speeds and/or slick down hills.
When that happens, its only a question of how much damage will be done.


Borgeson, if you can get it all worked out, is fine.
Probably best to go with Peter Bergman on that since he's dealt with the issues.

Don't need the following:
-PST Adjustable strut rods
-PST Pivot shaft
-PST Tubular Upper control arms
-PST Super poly front end kit

For street use I'd use polyurethane on the sway bar end links.
Maybe also the sway bar bushings - in which case get the 'polygraphite' or greasable mounts.
And if you are willing to do some fitting and measuring, the strut rod bushings.
With a B-body, I would like to think the aftermarket strut bushings are the correct dimensions, but assume they are not. See if AndyF or another trustworthy source has done the work on this. Hotchkis set up and run a B-body on tracks - so that's a good sign their stuff has been worked out. But your tires and intended use calls for a softer setup. There qalso may be some differences in '66 vs. next generation (for example in weight, or weight distribution) so keep that in mind.
Click to expand...

Oh, that suprised me, why the hell would anyone mount rear sway bars then? :O

I'm kind of confused since I've seen alot of people strongly argue for the benefits of tubular UCAs both on this forum and elsewhere with the argument that the stock UCAs won't allow for a corrrect alignment for modern tires?


PST said:
Looks like you have a good plan. If you are looking to improve the over all performance. I would continue with what you have listed. The tubular arms are huge improvement as they have improved designed over stock when it comes to ability fine tune the alignment as well as the adjustable strut rods as with the adjustable strut rods with heim joints allows the suspension to unload and load quickly and smoother through its range of motion.

As for the pivot shafts, are you looking at the greasable or the oem style ?

Front End Kit:

If you are going to use the tubular arms, strut rods and greasable pivot shaft you may want to save the money and go with the steering linkage kit instead of the super front end kit as it contains the part you need to complete the rebuild and not end up with duplicates

You may also want to consider lower control arm stiffening plates as well to tighten up the control arms.

Thanks
James From
PST
Click to expand...

I'm looking at the greasable type since that seems like an obvious upside - beeing able to grease moving parts is always a good idea...

The stering linkage kit actually seems like a good idea, but it's missing a couple of parts as far as I can see, lower ball joints, bump stops anc LCA bushings... Are the necessary bushings and endlinks included in the swaybar kits and Upper control arms?

Stiffening plates for the LCAs are already made and in place ;)
 
The lower control arm bushings are included with the greasable pivot shafts. But you are correct you would still need the lower ball joints. Sway bar kits normally include the end links and bushings.

Thanks
James
 
NorthernSwede said:
Oh, that suprised me, why the hell would anyone mount rear sway bars then? :O
Click to expand...
I think I've failed to communicate a key point. Each of these changes is an adjustment. Rear roll rate is most sensitive to seemingly small changes. Addition of a rear sway bar is a major change. When used, it should be a part of an overall development. Key word here is development. A good suspension has to be worked out in practice, not just theory. It starts with the tires and road conditions. A car that's going to be driven in snow and dirt, even Hekkapallita rally tires, is going to need softer springing and accept more roll to maintain grip than a car running a high speed track on dry pavement.

NorthernSwede said:
I'm kind of confused since I've seen alot of people strongly argue for the benefits of tubular UCAs both on this forum and elsewhere with the argument that the stock UCAs won't allow for a corrrect alignment for modern tires?
Click to expand...
Folks can argue all they want. Some may have jacked up the rears with different size tires or high arch springs. Others have bought and installed an item, and are sure that is the way everyone should do it. The folks making the arms think they are the best thing since sliced bread.
You can get more adjustment as needed much more cheaply. One is by using Moog 'problem solver' UCA bushings to your advantage. Another is with hardened washers to shim out the lower ball joint to spindle. But the first thing is to start with the lowest factory ride height. Or, if you're want, go a little lower. This will start your car deeper in the negative camber and more into the positive caster.
For street use, street tires, the camber requirements aren't that radical. If you're going on track with competition or near competition tires, that's a different story. Then start with the specs recommended by that tire's manufacturer.
My suggestion is not buy into marketing or looks. Find people and cars with actual development time. I gave you the links above for that reason.
 
Last edited:
Mattax said:
I think I've failed to communicate a key point. Each of these changes is an adjustment. Rear roll rate is most sensitive to seemingly small changes. Addition of a rear sway bar is a major change. When used, it should be a part of an overall development. Key word here is development. A good suspension has to be worked out in practice, not just theory. It starts with the tires and road conditions. A car that's going to be driven in snow and dirt, even Hekkapallita rally tires, is going to need softer springing and accept more roll to maintain grip than a car running a high speed track on dry pavement.


Folks can argue all they want. Some may have jacked up the rears with different size tires or high arch springs. Others have bought and installed an item, and are sure that is the way everyone should do it. The folks making the arms think they are the best thing since sliced bread.
You can get more adjustment as needed much more cheaply. One is by using Moog 'problem solver' UCA bushings to your advantage. Another is with hardened washers to shim out the lower ball joint to spindle. But the first thing is to start with the lowest factory ride height. Or, if you're want, go a little lower. This will start your car deeper in the negative camber and more into the positive caster.
For street use, street tires, the camber requirements aren't that radical. If you're going on track with competition or near competition tires, that's a different story. Then start with the specs recommended by that tire's manufacturer.
My suggestion is not buy into marketing or looks. Find people and cars with actual development time. I gave you the links above for that reason.
Click to expand...

I see where you're going! And that seems absolutely logical! I just wish I didn't have to ship everything halfway across the world.. Forgeting to add one part in the cart always lead to a 100$ shipping fee :/ I guess that's why I'm trying to get as complete as possible right away instead of noticing after install and test drive that I "cheaped" out on something that turns out to be needed.

And your second answer brings me to the other problem, I know of not a single mopar in a 300km radious with any sort of serious suspension work done, therefore talking to people that has tried is limited to.. well, you guys att FABO.. :)

Other than that that's a lot of good suggestions, didn't know about the moog bushings!

Looked at the videos you linked and read the whole thread and it looks really good for a stock car but still like it might have a bit much body roll ?
 
NorthernSwede said:
it might have a bit much body roll ?
Click to expand...
With those new grippier tires on the road course, its generating higher g's and rolling more than when he used typical street radials.
The first time out I didn't think the body roll we saw in the videos was excessive. But from photo and description this year's outing on the new tires, yes probably excessive. Reducing the roll may help keep better tire geometry to the road and also keep the car a bit more settled.
But the stiffer it is, the more the weight is transfered onto the outside wheel.
At the extreme, only one tire is gripping the road.
upload_2019-8-1_22-10-25.png
 
I agree with working with the original geometry. It is superior to the aftermarket conversions available today.
You can get some better value by using my delrin lca bushings, pins. I also carry the rest of the parts including USA made torsion bars all from one source which saves you on shipping.
PM me if you would like further help. I have a ton of real world experience on the street and open track days rather than most of the usual assumptions that less experienced people make.
 
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