Not charging after MSD 6AL installation.

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frederick_76

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What did I do wrong? 69 Valiant.
After installing the MSD 6AL I'm not charging. Took the alt in to have tested, its good but in the car ( running) I'm getting the same reading on the alt as I do on the battery ( I don't understand that if it was reading 14+ at the parts store) . Replaced the voltage regulator and still not charging.
Am I supposed to do something with the remaining 2 wires that were on the ballast resistor? They are currently not hooked to anything and nothing in the MSD instructions.
Thanks in advance.
 
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how many wires did you ave on the ballast resistor 2 or 4......
 
one of the voltage regulator wire is keyed....see where the two wired not connected where they go
 
Hooked up a temporary wire from the battery to the blue, nothing. Hooked up to the other wire and were charging. But voltage regulator started to smoke...
 
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WTF??? All the wires on the ballast normally need to be jumpered together. That is the simple answer. The old coil+ wire will now become switched "ignition run" 12V and can be fed to the MSD "small red" trigger wire.

No idea how or why you could smoke the regulator that way
 
"No idea how or why you could smoke the regulator that way"

I Hooked it to a 12 volt source. Maybe the wires for the ballast are less. Ill hook it up like you guys have stated after work today.
 
I don't understand what you did either.
Let's go over everything to be sure you have it hooked up correctly.
First the alternator.
I'm getting the same reading on the alt as I do on the battery ( I don't understand that if it was reading 14+ at the parts store) . Replaced the voltage regulator and still not charging.
Voltage read at the alternator output, the battery positive terminal, and anything connected to them should be at the same voltage.
Voltage readings are not a measurement of charging.
When we measure voltage and it is higher than the battery's internal capability, we can infer the alternator is working and if the battery needs recharging it is sucking power from the alternator to do so. The ammeter shows whether current is flowing to or from the battery. If the system is between 13 and 15 Volts, the battery will only draw power (seen as current flow on the ammeter) until it is recharged.

Am I supposed to do something with the remaining 2 wires that were on the ballast resistor? They are currently not hooked to anything and nothing in the MSD instructions.
You can put a piggyback on each the ballast terminal and jumper them together or you can leave them alone. It doesn't matter. I don't know what's in MSD's current instructions. Older ones were pretty clear.

Piggyback terminal. Put one on each side and a jumper wire between.
If you need to go back to your points distributor, just remove the jumper.
upload_2019-8-5_9-28-24.png


Autotronics Instructions for MSD 6 Series
upload_2019-8-5_9-29-53.png


upload_2019-8-5_9-35-25.png

I don't think MSD is still supplying the terminals and plastic isolators pictured above. If they are, great. If not, that's OK too. It was done because that way because the 505 and early 6 and 7 MSDs would somethimes die suddenly and this provided a quick means to use factory system or a second box as a backup.

Lets go over the connections on a '69.
Power to run the MSD and charge the capacitor needs to come direct as possible from a power source.
Shown in the diagram as the direct to the battery, but the stud on the solenoid or the alternator output stud are also good locations.
upload_2019-8-5_9-56-22.png

Take the ignition run wire off of the coil and connect it to the smaller gage red wire. This tell the MSD to turn on.
Take the signal wire off of the coil negative and attach it to the the MSD white trigger wire.
Connect MSD orange wire to coil positive & MSD small black to coil negative.

Make sure none of the connections touch ground.

The MSD does not care if there is a resistor in the power on signal. It draws very little current.
The coil primary is now fed by the MSD. So the resistor is not needed as a current control for the coil.
So you can tie the ignition run and start circuits together if you want - or if the resistor is broken.
upload_2019-8-5_10-16-29.png


The pair of blue wires on the ballast resistor are also part of the charging system. Those connections must be in top condition.
One comes from the key in Run position. The other goes to the voltage regulator which decided how much current to let through to the alternator rotor.
 
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Thank for th input and info MATTAX.
The reason I get same voltage reading on alt and battery is the Ammeter bypass I did.
 
The reason I get same voltage reading on alt and battery is the Ammeter bypass I did.
No.
The reason they should always be at the same voltage reading is because they are connected at all times.
Everything in the main circuit should be at system voltage and there is no off switch. Accidently touch anything in that circuit to ground and sparks will fly.
The only time voltage drops is when current is flowing through resistance. Resistance can be purposeful like the ballast, a light bulb or an electric motor, or it can be due to poor connections or degraded wires.

I don't care how it is wired. The connections and wires of the main circuit need to be large enough and good enough so there is little resistance even when lots of current is flowing. Lots of current for a '69 would brake lights on, headlights on, wipers and heater blower running.
I think some confusion comes from the fact there are two power feeds. One from the battery, the other from the alternator. They are always tied together in some manner.
When the battery needs charging, the alternator feed supplies the battery with power. Then the battery feed becomes the charging wire and current flows into the battery.

Regardless, if the alternator Batt stud and battery post are at noticibly different voltages, there's resistance in the flow path. Then you have to figure out what the path is, and then find the resistance.
 
"The same reading" depends on CURRENT. Even with a bypass if you put enough alternator on the thing, and if the battery is low enough, you will see drop. The alternator generates regulated 14V depending on temperature-------the VR is temperature sensitive---------and the battery gets lower and lower in voltage if it's been discharged.......like say you left the lights on for a long time.

So if you could instantly switch between, say, a 35, a 50, a 65, a 105A alternator with a really drained battery, the larger alternators would show more drop than the smaller ones, but with high current flowing, there will be SOME drop.

The charge wire, unless you have a "one wire" is not as important. What is important is that both the ground and hot side of the VR see EXACTLY battery voltage.
 
Any luck? I'm following the thread because I'm having a similar issue. I don't mean to hijack your thread.

I have a 69 valiant, dropped a 408 stroker in it. Added the FBO 4 seconds flat electronic ignition - distributor, coil, ecm, a vintage looking electronic vreg (wanted to keep a stock look so i kept the ballast resistor too and turned it into a jumper/splice). The alternator is a 60A square back that I tested with the v reg to make sure it was working (will upgrade to a powermaster 100A as soon as I can) Also tested the brand new battery. As for other mods, I put a set of dual fans out of a ford mystique with a dakota digital timer and I had to put a mechanical fuel pump (small nos/holley style) as the builder didn't put the essentric in for the mech pump. I also did an ameter bypass. Not running a stereo, the fan or anything else right now. I'm getting less than 10 v at idle. All my grounds are good, all my wiring related to the charging system is new (the harness is old).

Where does one start trouble shooting? My automotive electrical skills are novice at best.
 
I don't understand what you did either.
Let's go over everything to be sure you have it hooked up correctly.
First the alternator.

Voltage read at the alternator output, the battery positive terminal, and anything connected to them should be at the same voltage.
Voltage readings are not a measurement of charging.
When we measure voltage and it is higher than the battery's internal capability, we can infer the alternator is working and if the battery needs recharging it is sucking power from the alternator to do so. The ammeter shows whether current is flowing to or from the battery. If the system is between 13 and 15 Volts, the battery will only draw power (seen as current flow on the ammeter) until it is recharged.

You can put a piggyback on each the ballast terminal and jumper them together or you can leave them alone. It doesn't matter. I don't know what's in MSD's current instructions. Older ones were pretty clear.

Piggyback terminal. Put one on each side and a jumper wire between.
If you need to go back to your points distributor, just remove the jumper.
View attachment 1715373912

Autotronics Instructions for MSD 6 Series
View attachment 1715373913

View attachment 1715373914
I don't think MSD is still supplying the terminals and plastic isolators pictured above. If they are, great. If not, that's OK too. It was done because that way because the 505 and early 6 and 7 MSDs would somethimes die suddenly and this provided a quick means to use factory system or a second box as a backup.

Lets go over the connections on a '69.
Power to run the MSD and charge the capacitor needs to come direct as possible from a power source.
Shown in the diagram as the direct to the battery, but the stud on the solenoid or the alternator output stud are also good locations.
View attachment 1715373919
Take the ignition run wire off of the coil and connect it to the smaller gage red wire. This tell the MSD to turn on.
Take the signal wire off of the coil negative and attach it to the the MSD white trigger wire.
Connect MSD orange wire to coil positive & MSD small black to coil negative.

Make sure none of the connections touch ground.

The MSD does not care if there is a resistor in the power on signal. It draws very little current.
The coil primary is now fed by the MSD. So the resistor is not needed as a current control for the coil.
So you can tie the ignition run and start circuits together if you want - or if the resistor is broken.
View attachment 1715373937

The pair of blue wires on the ballast resistor are also part of the charging system. Those connections must be in top condition.
One comes from the key in Run position. The other goes to the voltage regulator which decided how much current to let through to the alternator rotor.
Hello there sir,2 question for you,first do you need the ballast and second on your diagram,I know one wire goes to the voltage regulator,where does the second one goes too and thanks for the great help
 
Hello there sir,2 question for you,first do you need the ballast and second on your diagram,I know one wire goes to the voltage regulator,where does the second one goes too and thanks for the great help
I think you are asking about the original factory connections.
Yes?
It depends on the year and model.
Functionally its like this in the most basic form; but the actual junction locations were moved around - sometimes using a splice, sometimes joining at a terminal.

upload_2020-4-27_9-17-42.png
 
No.
The reason they should always be at the same voltage reading is because they are connected at all times.
Everything in the main circuit should be at system voltage and there is no off switch. Accidently touch anything in that circuit to ground and sparks will fly.
The only time voltage drops is when current is flowing through resistance. Resistance can be purposeful like the ballast, a light bulb or an electric motor, or it can be due to poor connections or degraded wires.

I don't care how it is wired. The connections and wires of the main circuit need to be large enough and good enough so there is little resistance even when lots of current is flowing. Lots of current for a '69 would brake lights on, headlights on, wipers and heater blower running.
I think some confusion comes from the fact there are two power feeds. One from the battery, the other from the alternator. They are always tied together in some manner.
When the battery needs charging, the alternator feed supplies the battery with power. Then the battery feed becomes the charging wire and current flows into the battery.

Regardless, if the alternator Batt stud and battery post are at noticibly different voltages, there's resistance in the flow path. Then you have to figure out what the path is, and then find the resistance.
I think you are asking about the original factory connections.
Yes?
It depends on the year and model.
Functionally its like this in the most basic form; but the actual junction locations were moved around - sometimes using a splice, sometimes joining at a terminal.

View attachment 1715517418
no I got the Msd atomic plus the 6a box
 
I installed the msd system,and it won’t charge because I took out the ballast and modules of a recommendation from a company,then I saw this post,I love your schematic,i notice there was 2 wires on one end f the ballast
 
i notice there was 2 wires on one end f the ballast
I don't know what the Atomic is.
The instructions I posted are from the original MSD company, Autotronics.
The 6 series does not require the ballast, but it doesn't affect its operation if its left in place. It's easier to leave it.
Basically all I can suggest is follow the original instructions for each wire.
Use the coil positive connection to turn the MSD 6 on/off.
Cover the original coil negative wire's terminal.
Connect the MSD's coil wires to the coil.
Put the ballast back in or put a jumper where it used to be.
I can't be specific about colors or numbers of wires without knowing what the car came with or has now.
 
I pretty much understand your diagram,but on your ballast you got 2 wires on one end ,that’s what I was wondering where they go,I no one goes to the voltage regulator,but the other I don’t know
 
The wires and colors function exactly as shown in the 1960s diagram I posted this morning because the original poster was asking about a '69.
 
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