Ar15 pistol

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dartfreak75

dartfreak75

Restore it, Dont part it!
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I know there are alot of gun guys like me here so I'm gonna go ahead and ask here. Do any of you have a ar pistol? I'm thinking about building one I have everything here to do it except the barrel, buffer tube and gas tube I have a extra lower and upper and tons of spare small parts. I cant decided between a 7.5 and a 10.5 inch barrel. And I am in between a 5.56 and a blackout the 556 would be alot cheaper to shoot and plink with but I think the 300 would be more suited for that short of a barrel. I would think the 5.56 out of a 7 inch barrel would loose all velocity and energy.
 
Here’s a pic of my buddies shortened barrel .300 blackout he just finished.
5F6D87F2-F451-481C-8E03-E58D41BABD04.png
 
I'm also wondering if I go with a 10.5 would it be better to do a carbine or pistol gas length?
 
I believe it’s a brace. I wish I had the can also, I haven’t shot it yet with him. His is 10inch barrel.
 
Scamp Fasty said:
I did one 7.5” in .223 wylde and it is super fun. Go short since it’s a pistol right? My next will be 7.62x39, AK round. More pressure, not as good as .300 black out but CHEAP. I’ve also built an AR47 in 18” and it packs a punch compared to .223View attachment 1715380631
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Thanks I actually considered the wylde too. Is it any noticeably or obnoxiously loaded that a standard rifle length 223? Have you had any feed issues with the 7.5 inch? It seems to me there would be alot of unused powder and gases with that short of a barrel lol
 
dartfreak75 said:
Thanks I actually considered the wylde too. Is it any noticeably or obnoxiously loaded that a standard rifle length 223? Have you had any feed issues with the 7.5 inch? It seems to me there would be alot of unused powder and gases with that short of a barrel lol
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It does seem louder but it is 10” closer to me face lol. It doesn’t seem to shoot as far but I don’t have sights on it and it’s for close range like a pistol. Haven’t had any problems cycling round through it.
 
dartfreak75 said:
I know there are alot of gun guys like me here so I'm gonna go ahead and ask here. Do any of you have a ar pistol? I'm thinking about building one I have everything here to do it except the barrel, buffer tube and gas tube I have a extra lower and upper and tons of spare small parts. I cant decided between a 7.5 and a 10.5 inch barrel. And I am in between a 5.56 and a blackout the 556 would be alot cheaper to shoot and plink with but I think the 300 would be more suited for that short of a barrel. I would think the 5.56 out of a 7 inch barrel would loose all velocity and energy.
Click to expand...

Just be sure you do everything in the correct order if you have other AR's. Having in your possession a short barrel and another AR is a felony. You need a specific lower designated as a pistol lower BEFORE proceeding with barrels and such.

There are certain measurements that have to fall in range for it to be a pistol. You may want to check state laws as well.

You cannot make a rifle into a pistol. BUT, and here's the weird part, once you have a pistol built you can change it over to a rifle and back to pistol form legally.

Go figure.....eh.
 
Bad Sport said:
Just be sure you do everything in the correct order if you have other AR's. Having in your possession a short barrel and another AR is a felony. You need a specific lower designated as a pistol lower BEFORE proceeding with barrels and such.

There are certain measurements that have to fall in range for it to be a pistol. You may want to check state laws as well.

You cannot make a rifle into a pistol. BUT, and here's the weird part, once you have a pistol built you can change it over to a rifle and back to pistol form legally.

Go figure.....eh.
Click to expand...
How does that work If it's on a 80% lower. It's not registered as anything (rifle/pistol) etc. I do understand that you cant put a pistol upper on a rifle lower. But what do you mean by having a short barrel and another ar is a felony?
 
dartfreak75 said:
But what do you mean by having a short barrel and another ar is a felony?
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If you own an AR, you cannot have in your possession a shorter than 16" barrel UNLESS you have a lower dedicated as a pistol lower OR you applied, paid for and received an NFA stamp. Otherwise it can be misconstrued by BATFE as you intend to have an SBR.

When I built mine, I ordered an Anderson lower and had it shipped to my FFL. When I went to pick it up, I checked OTHER on the 4473, and because we have to register pistols with MSP I had him fill out the pistol reg. form. Once I had that and turned it in, I then was able to purchase the upper legally because at that point I had a "pistol" lower.

IF you have to register pistols in VA, I would get the lower prepped and registered as a pistol before proceeding to the next step.

I went 10.5 on my upper that I picked up at PSA, it's a blast to shoot, fairly accurate so far at 100 yds with a Primary Arms red dot on it.
 
Bad Sport said:
If you own an AR, you cannot have in your possession a shorter than 16" barrel UNLESS you have a lower dedicated as a pistol lower OR you applied, paid for and received an NFA stamp. Otherwise it can be misconstrued by BATFE as you intend to have an SBR.

When I built mine, I ordered an Anderson lower and had it shipped to my FFL. When I went to pick it up, I checked OTHER on the 4473, and because we have to register pistols with MSP I had him fill out the pistol reg. form. Once I had that and turned it in, I then was able to purchase the upper legally because at that point I had a "pistol" lower.

IF you have to register pistols in VA, I would get the lower prepped and registered as a pistol before proceeding to the next step.

I went 10.5 on my upper that I picked up at PSA, it's a blast to shoot, fairly accurate so far at 100 yds with a Primary Arms red dot on it.
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Ok I got you ! So basically I have to have a dedicated pistol lower first!! Yea I did know that. I dont know how it works legally with a 80% I'm assuming as long as the lower is set up for a pistol ( pistol buffer) it's legal I did some research and I didnt find much.
 
You might be able to serialize the 80% lower, of course that's more leg work. For the price of a complete lower with pistol buffer tube in place isn't that bad. I think I have 125 into my Anderson lower.

Mine is an AM-15 Multi-Cal lower.

If you go that route, check off the PISTOL/OTHER (whichever it is) box on the 4473....UNLESS you have to register pistols in VA. EDIT: Make sure you retain a copy for your records, that way you can prove your intent.
 
Bad Sport said:
You might be able to serialize the 80% lower, of course that's more leg work. For the price of a complete lower with pistol buffer tube in place isn't that bad. I think I have 125 into my Anderson lower.

Mine is an AM-15 Multi-Cal lower.

If you go that route, check off the PISTOL box on the 4473....UNLESS you have to register pistols in VA. EDIT: Make sure you retain a copy for your records, that way you can prove your intent.
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Yes absolutely correct!!
As far as serializing the 80 lower I don't have to its perfectly legal to have as long as I'm the one who purchased and milled it. It is illegal to mill it for someone else or have someone mill it for me. It's very very illegal for me to ever sale or trade it so once it's done its mine forever! Lol
There is no pistol registration in va.
 
According to my book the Difference between Muzzle velocities between a 26" and a 14" tube is right at 500fps on the same load. Using a faster pistol powder might bump it up a little bit. 2400fps on that short tube is still pretty respectable. I miss my 22-250 :(
 
This is the first I've heard of marking a lower on the 4473. I gotta look into that.

From my experience, I'd go 10" barrel. I don't want my hands that close to exiting projectiles and remember no vertical grip onna front. See the NOT PLEASANT pics from the Kel-tec shotguns to see what I mean. Pistol rounds don't kick like .223/5.56.... UPDATED: Another devastating Kel-Tec KSG injury - The Gun Writer

Unless you're committed to visibly marking ammunition, mags, and guns, and keeping them FAR apart, I would not run 300 Blackout, either. Get one of those 300 BLK rounds in your 556 ammo, and you will have a bad day. It WILL chamber and fire. I kinda want to build a 300 BLK but I can't imagine my wife or anyone coming along after me realizing what's up until it's blown up in their face.
main-qimg-83ef2876bc496f109bb37bf1c05a0245.webp


Nowadays, I feel that the 300 BLK, although neat as hell, was poorly executed specifically for this reason.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkvBVVg7mTwiGq2LqURJYqqK5zasVV4WmPeXsmOK-aKgvikwq0.jpg


image-203-660x472.jpg


AGAIN: 300BLK In 5.56 Rifle -
 
OK, IT DEPENDS ON YOUR STATE.

For free states, if you fill out the 4473 and just purchased a receiver, bare, stripped, Etc. it should just be marked 'receiver/other' on the 4473. Then it can be built as either, as long as you don't build it into a rifle and then convert to a pistol, you've done no wrong.

And you can possess pistol barrels, I just would not store them with my other AR's and I damn sure wouldn't build a pistol upper and toss it in the safe with all my rifles, no way.

Jeez, what a clusterfunk.
 
jos51700 said:
This is the first I've heard of marking a lower on the 4473. I gotta look into that.

From my experience, I'd go 10" barrel. I don't want my hands that close to exiting projectiles and remember no vertical grip onna front. See the NOT PLEASANT pics from the Kel-tec shotguns to see what I mean. Pistol rounds don't kick like .223/5.56.... UPDATED: Another devastating Kel-Tec KSG injury - The Gun Writer

Unless you're committed to visibly marking ammunition, mags, and guns, and keeping them FAR apart, I would not run 300 Blackout, either. Get one of those 300 BLK rounds in your 556 ammo, and you will have a bad day. It WILL chamber and fire. I kinda want to build a 300 BLK but I can't imagine my wife or anyone coming along after me realizing what's up until it's blown up in their face.
main-qimg-83ef2876bc496f109bb37bf1c05a0245.webp


Nowadays, I feel that the 300 BLK, although neat as hell, was poorly executed specifically for this reason.

View attachment 1715381310

View attachment 1715381311

AGAIN: 300BLK In 5.56 Rifle -
Click to expand...
You are absolutely correct about the 300 in a 223 chamber. That can end very badly. I already have both I have. 556 rifle and a blackout rifle I have specifically marked magazines for my blackout and am very careful when I take them to the range I will not shoot one without the other put up its case. It's really no different that owning a 243 and a 308 you have to be safe and mindful about the ammo your using. I also own 2 glocks a 26 and a 23 one is a 9mm the other is a 40 same thing again.
I dont even understand how you would accidentally get your hand in front of the barrel without knowing it? That's just simple gun safety. I hate that guy lost his hand but damn he what was he thinking?
You are correct about the 4473 but in this case I'm using a 80% so I wont have to fill one out.
 
Unconventional said:
According to my book the Difference between Muzzle velocities between a 26" and a 14" tube is right at 500fps on the same load. Using a faster pistol powder might bump it up a little bit. 2400fps on that short tube is still pretty respectable. I miss my 22-250 :(
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Yea I read somewhere that they were getting close to 2500 with a 55g factory round out of a 10 inch and close to 2200 out of a 7 inch with much ammo. Not to bad imo. I haven't decided yet but I'm kinda leaning towards the 10 in a 223 wylde with a carbine gas system so I can run a mil spec 3 ounce buffer.
 
dartfreak75 said:
You are absolutely correct about the 300 in a 223 chamber. That can end very badly. I already have both I have. 556 rifle and a blackout rifle I have specifically marked magazines for my blackout and am very careful when I take them to the range I will not shoot one without the other put up its case. It's really no different that owning a 243 and a 308 you have to be safe and mindful about the ammo your using. I also own 2 glocks a 26 and a 23 one is a 9mm the other is a 40 same thing again.
I dont even understand how you would accidentally get your hand in front of the barrel without knowing it? That's just simple gun safety. I hate that guy lost his hand but damn he what was he thinking?
You are correct about the 4473 but in this case I'm using a 80% so I wont have to fill one out.
Click to expand...

In the case of the Kel-tec, he was rapid-firing and the foregrip broke off (plastic rails. Fantastic idea.). Jammed the slide home and momentum did it's thing while he pulled the trigger. There have been several of those.

dartfreak75 said:
Yea I read somewhere that they were getting close to 2500 with a 55g factory round out of a 10 inch and close to 2200 out of a 7 inch with much ammo. Not to bad imo. I haven't decided yet but I'm kinda leaning towards the 10 in a 223 wylde with a carbine gas system so I can run a mil spec 3 ounce buffer.
Click to expand...

The AR makes a poor pistol, but they are fun. If it's a pistol caliber, I'd run a shorter barrel but with the .223, most of that power is gone to wind in a short barrel. I say build it and enjoy it, but watch the new closely; They're under scrutiny thanks to that psychotic dipshit in Dayton.
 
jos51700 said:
OK, IT DEPENDS ON YOUR STATE.

For free states, if you fill out the 4473 and just purchased a receiver, bare, stripped, Etc. it should just be marked 'receiver/other' on the 4473. Then it can be built as either, as long as you don't build it into a rifle and then convert to a pistol, you've done no wrong.
Click to expand...

Correct, it must be marked anything but rifle or shotgun. Pretty strange that you cannot build a pistol from a rifle lower, yet you CAN switch a pistol to a long gun and switch back with no violation of the NFA.

jos51700 said:
And you can possess pistol barrels, I just would not store them with my other AR's and I damn sure wouldn't build a pistol upper and toss it in the safe with all my rifles, no way.
Click to expand...

You CANNOT have a barrel shorter than 16" in your possession without having a designated "pistol" lower OR an NFA stamp. If you do, it's a violation of the NFA.

See U.S. v. Thompson/Center Arms Co., - U.S.- (1992)
As Mr. Bardwell explains:

This is another recent examination of the meaning of the language of the NFA by the Supreme Court, along with Staples. Neither involves constitutional law. In this case the court was called upon to decide what constituted a short barreled rifle. T/C wanted to market a kit consisting of one receiver for their Contender gun, a 16"+ barrel, a >16" barrel, a pistol grip and a shoulder stock. This kit could be used, as intended, to assemble a rifle or a pistol, or it could also be used to assemble a SBR. As it could be so used, ATF decided it was a SBR. T/C made one unit on a Form 1, then sued for a tax refund, claiming it wasn't subject to the NFA. This is the way to challenge such a classification. Doing the thing York or SWD did, in those cases, is an invitation to a prosecution. The Staples case will limit such things, but one can easily lose....Here all that was at stake was money. The court decided that the language of the definition of a SBR was vague, and gave it the reading most favorable to the taxpayer, T/C. They decided the kit was not a SBR, nor was any set of parts where they could be used for a legitimate purpose, even if they could also be used to assemble a SBR. However a SBR fully assembled was also clearly a SBR. Thus the other grey area was a SBR in parts form, like an Uzi carbine and a Uzi SMG barrel. A lower court had held in a prior case that that set of parts was a SBR. The (Supreme) Court agreed; that if the parts had only one use, to make a SBR, and a person possessed them all that was a SBR also.

Note the boldface sentence: Owning a rifle lower receiver (and no pistol lowers) while also owning an upper with a barrel under 16" is illegal according to the U.S. Supreme Court. Because you have all the parts necessary to assemble an SBR, but no way to use them legally without creating an NFA item, you are in possession of an unregistered SBR.

jos51700 said:
Jeez, what a clusterfunk.
Click to expand...

Ya think...........LOL.
 
jos51700 said:
From my experience, I'd go 10" barrel.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, I went with a 10.5.......this thing shoots flawlessly and so far with pretty good accuracy out to 100 yards with a red dot. I think that is very acceptable keeping in mind "why" it was built.

AR Pistol After.jpg
 
Bad Sport said:
Correct, it must be marked anything but rifle or shotgun. Pretty strange that you cannot build a pistol from a rifle lower, yet you CAN switch a pistol to a long gun and switch back with no violation of the NFA.



You CANNOT have a barrel shorter than 16" in your possession without having a designated "pistol" lower OR an NFA stamp. If you do, it's a violation of the NFA.

See U.S. v. Thompson/Center Arms Co., - U.S.- (1992)
As Mr. Bardwell explains:

This is another recent examination of the meaning of the language of the NFA by the Supreme Court, along with Staples. Neither involves constitutional law. In this case the court was called upon to decide what constituted a short barreled rifle. T/C wanted to market a kit consisting of one receiver for their Contender gun, a 16"+ barrel, a >16" barrel, a pistol grip and a shoulder stock. This kit could be used, as intended, to assemble a rifle or a pistol, or it could also be used to assemble a SBR. As it could be so used, ATF decided it was a SBR. T/C made one unit on a Form 1, then sued for a tax refund, claiming it wasn't subject to the NFA. This is the way to challenge such a classification. Doing the thing York or SWD did, in those cases, is an invitation to a prosecution. The Staples case will limit such things, but one can easily lose....Here all that was at stake was money. The court decided that the language of the definition of a SBR was vague, and gave it the reading most favorable to the taxpayer, T/C. They decided the kit was not a SBR, nor was any set of parts where they could be used for a legitimate purpose, even if they could also be used to assemble a SBR. However a SBR fully assembled was also clearly a SBR. Thus the other grey area was a SBR in parts form, like an Uzi carbine and a Uzi SMG barrel. A lower court had held in a prior case that that set of parts was a SBR. The (Supreme) Court agreed; that if the parts had only one use, to make a SBR, and a person possessed them all that was a SBR also.

Note the boldface sentence: Owning a rifle lower receiver (and no pistol lowers) while also owning an upper with a barrel under 16" is illegal according to the U.S. Supreme Court. Because you have all the parts necessary to assemble an SBR, but no way to use them legally without creating an NFA item, you are in possession of an unregistered SBR.



Ya think...........LOL.
Click to expand...

See, as I read it (re-bolded), owning the barrel is not a criminal act, so I said I figure it's ok to keep a barrel, but not an upper.

I think we're basically in agreement, but with the stupid bullshit the ATF pulls and especially with their confusing language on this crap and changing their own interpretations (Bumpstocks), who the hell knows.

I know when I called the ATF about suppressor lengths, the very nice black lady with a very southern accent said "Don't y'all worry if the actual length ain't the same as what's on y'all's Form 1. We know if you callin' us, y'all's is legal enough for what we care about."

I took that to mean that if they're not nailing you for other crimes, they probably don't care one bit about these technicalities. Keep your nose clean and keep your boogerhook off the trigger until you're ready to fire!
 
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