First time road racing at the track!

After years of wanting to see how my Duster would do on a road course I finally attended a Time Attack series event at Pikes Peak International Raceway. Not to ruffle any feathers but I've had my car down the 1/4 mile several times and there's no comparison, this is WAY more fun! Flooring the gas off the line coming up to the first turn, easy on the brakes, start turning and you feel the tires start to slip and giving it gas coming out of a turn and getting the rear end to swing out, DAMN what a rush! I'm totally addicted, the last event of the season is October 6th I hope to have front and rear sway bars installed by then and get the ride height more leveled out.

Here's a video a friend of mine took, it was just with a phone so he wasn't able to zoom in much but you can start to see my car pretty well about halfway through. I love how you can see the torque twisting the car coming up to the finish line and then it drops when I let off and hit the brakes.



The coolest part is I only ran about 6 seconds slower than a newer Mitsubishi Evo with sticky tires. My best run was 60.11 seconds and I think his best was a 54.8. Everyone I met was surprised at how well my car did it was great! "Don't underestimate the torsion bars!" lol

Never done it but it looks like fun. Your car looked so much better on that track than anything I saw go by....

MopaR&D said:

After years of wanting to see how my Duster would do on a road course I finally attended a Time Attack series event at Pikes Peak International Raceway. Not to ruffle any feathers but I've had my car down the 1/4 mile several times and there's no comparison, this is WAY more fun! Flooring the gas off the line coming up to the first turn, easy on the brakes, start turning and you feel the tires start to slip and giving it gas coming out of a turn and getting the rear end to swing out, DAMN what a rush! I'm totally addicted, the last event of the season is October 6th I hope to have front and rear sway bars installed by then and get the ride height more leveled out.

Here's a video a friend of mine took, it was just with a phone so he wasn't able to zoom in much but you can start to see my car pretty well about halfway through. I love how you can see the torque twisting the car coming up to the finish line and then it drops when I let off and hit the brakes.



The coolest part is I only ran about 6 seconds slower than a newer Mitsubishi Evo with sticky tires. My best run was 60.11 seconds and I think his best was a 54.8. Everyone I met was surprised at how well my car did it was great! "Don't underestimate the torsion bars!" lol

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Glad you had a good time and glad you got out there.
That's the most important thing.

Can't quite see what the course is made up of, but looks like there is a fair amount of room, which is nice.
I was planning hitting a couple track events this year, but its not going to happen. Just sticking with autocrosses, and will try to squeeze in one time at a drag strip.
Its OK. I'm having fun and working on my skills.

Get the front sway bar on and lower the rear if you have room. The rear sway bar if you have time. Not sure how fast you may be going in the turns, but if above highway speeds, be prepared to disconnect the rear bar if neccessary.

I agree. I read somewhere that a drag strip shows how fast the CAR is, a road course shows how fast the DRIVER is.
I've done both as well and drag racing is way too one dimensional. I have always favored a better handling car as opposed to the straight line stuff.

I think we should start a Dodgie Van race like the do in Japan.... Look it up on Utube

where is this track ….I am assuming near Denver ??

I never thought to run a car like this but it looks fun. I might have to put the sway bar back in the dart, dang thing might just be worth something after all, instead of hanging from the ceiling being used as a pullup workout bar

Kern Dog said:

I agree. I read somewhere that a drag strip shows how fast the CAR is, a road course shows how fast the DRIVER is.
I've done both as well and drag racing is way too one dimensional. I have always favored a better handling car as opposed to the straight line stuff.

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I will build a street/strip Mopar at some point but after yesterday stuff with turns will always be a higher priority. Drag racing is cool but I just think road racing is a bit... cooler? lol

What's awesome is how much more connected I feel to my Duster now. Since I finally was able to push it past its limits in a controlled environment I know exactly how it will react to my driving inputs and where its limits actually are. I never really felt that after making a run down the drag strip, more just got a feeling of how quick the car is, where the engine likes to shift etc.

My chassis/suspension isn't totally stock btw it does have '73-up front discs, Just Suspension 1" torsion bars, adjustable strut rods, homemade rear leaf packs and the steering was upgraded with a Stage 2 Firm Feel P/S box. Also has a B-body 8 3/4" rear with a worn-out clutch-type SG but that didn't do much for handling except increase unsprung weight lol.

Rainy Day Auto said:

where is this track ….I am assuming near Denver ??

I never thought to run a car like this but it looks fun. I might have to put the sway bar back in the dart, dang thing might just be worth something after all, instead of hanging from the ceiling being used as a pullup workout bar

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It's near Pikes Peak actually ... just south of Colorado Springs in Fountain, a lot closer to you than to me in Fort Collins that's one reason I haven't gone earlier. I drove the 2 hours to the Springs the night before and stayed in a cheap-er hotel, also had a group of guys from up here who I met up with at the track.

If you put that sway bar back in use polyurethane bushings or it's basically useless lol. At least that car has provisions for a sway bar, I just ordered a Hotchkis kit and will have to weld brackets onto the K-member and lower control arms.

MopaR&D said:

I will build a street/strip Mopar at some point but after yesterday stuff with turns will always be a higher priority. Drag racing is cool but I just think road racing is a bit... cooler? lol

What's awesome is how much more connected I feel to my Duster now. Since I finally was able to push it past its limits in a controlled environment I know exactly how it will react to my driving inputs and where its limits actually are. I never really felt that after making a run down the drag strip, more just got a feeling of how quick the car is, where the engine likes to shift etc.

My chassis/suspension isn't totally stock btw it does have '73-up front discs, Just Suspension 1" torsion bars, adjustable strut rods, homemade rear leaf packs and the steering was upgraded with a Stage 2 Firm Feel P/S box. Also has a B-body 8 3/4" rear with a worn-out clutch-type SG but that didn't do much for handling except increase unsprung weight lol.

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The only thing you feel at the end of a drag strip is you trying to slow down a meteor coming into the atmosphere, at the end of track. When I raced 1/4 mile, I had drums and the whole car would shake when the brakes were applied. I had to pump the brakes so it didn't shake as bad between applies LOL and the wind coming through the rust hole on the floor was interesting.

This roundy poundy stuff look fun

I would believe that a person with better road course skills would be a better driver on the street, maybe even be able to avoid accidents better due to an increased sense of vehicle control.

Kern Dog said:

I would believe that a person with better road course skills would be a better driver on the street, maybe even be able to avoid accidents better due to an increased sense of vehicle control.

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I sure felt that way on the drive home! I would say I now have a higher chance of swerving to avoid an accident instead of slamming on my brakes because I know how to swing the car around. Quick lane changes on the freeway are a lot less unsettling now.

Rainy Day Auto said:

The only thing you feel at the end of a drag strip is you trying to slow down a meteor coming into the atmosphere, at the end of track. When I raced 1/4 mile, I had drums and the whole car would shake when the brakes were applied. I had to pump the brakes so it didn't shake as bad between applies LOL and the wind coming through the rust hole on the floor was interesting.

This roundy poundy stuff look fun

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I had the '73-up brakes on my car by the time I got the chance to go to a drag strip, I can't recommend them enough. My friend who recorded the video went for a ride on one of my runs and said he was impressed with the brakes, and he drives a modified 2000's Mazda Miata.

Yeah...The 73-76 Disc drum A body is a great brake system even if NON power. My Brother In Law's 72 Duster and my '67 Dart are non power and they stop quite well.

Kern Dog said:

Yeah...The 73-76 Disc drum A body is a great brake system even if NON power. My Brother In Law's 72 Duster and my '67 Dart are non power and they stop quite well.

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We grew up driving like that, was no dragstrip around , other than a lonely road. We used to paly chikin and see how fast we could take corners , broadslideing and racing each other and outrunning the cops. I outgrew it when the factories started the muscle car wars. Still like unadulterated brute h.p. -----

Rainy Day Auto said:

I might have to put the sway bar back in the dart, dang thing might just be worth something after all, instead of hanging from the ceiling being used as a pullup workout bar

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Definately keep doing those pullups, it will make you a better driver.

MopaR&D said:

If you put that sway bar back in use polyurethane bushings or it's basically useless lol.

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I basically agree.^^^
Rubber bushings aren't totally useless, but for sports driving poly a cheap improvement. Especially on the links, polyurethane will provide a more immediate response.
BUT. On a stock link, double up the washers or buy some heavy aftermarket washers and tube with the polyurathane bushings.
Otherwise the tube will eventually punch through the washers.
When going polyurethane on the mounts, use 'polygraphite', or better yet, install grease fittings.

MopaR&D said:

Since I finally was able to push it past its limits in a controlled environment I know exactly how it will react to my driving inputs and where its limits actually are. I never really felt that after making a run down the drag strip, more just got a feeling of how quick the car is, where the engine likes to shift etc.

Click to expand...

It looks like you had an autocross type environment - lots of runoff and spin room. if so, then that's definately the place to feel out the limits.
One small caution. Even street tires have noticibly less grip on street than when running an event. I think its a combination of heat and the buildup of rubber off of everyones tires into the courses. I noticed this most after autocross events in the wet.
Drag strip is definately useful for focusing on engine and drivetrain changes. Its one reason I'm trying to work that into my schedule rather than a track event. Top end doesn't quite feel right and I also want to check the AFR at the high rpms and load.

MopaR&D said:

My chassis/suspension isn't totally stock btw it does have '73-up front discs, Just Suspension 1" torsion bars, adjustable strut rods, homemade rear leaf packs and the steering was upgraded with a Stage 2 Firm Feel P/S box. Also has a B-body 8 3/4" rear with a worn-out clutch-type SG but that didn't do much for handling except increase unsprung weight lol.

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Hmmm. I'd be cautious about a rear bar. Set it as soft as you can to start.

MopaR&D said:

At least that car has provisions for a sway bar, I just ordered a Hotchkis kit and will have to weld brackets onto the K-member and lower control arms.

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That's where Firm Feel's bars are a little easier for folks; no welding.
I don't know what Hotchkis instructions say, but another tip from the school of hard knocks. When you go to weld the brackets to the LCA, tack them or mark them with the car at normal ride height. Mock it up with the bar hanging from the K and the links.

Kern Dog said:

I would believe that a person with better road course skills would be a better driver on the street, maybe even be able to avoid accidents better due to an increased sense of vehicle control.

Click to expand...

I agree! One thing we see a lot is that good autocrossers tend to develop into good road racers. But road racers often have a hard time becoming good autocrossers. One speculation is that autocross emphasizes precision relative to the track (as oppose to other cars), and that everything happens very quick. On a track the car is going at higher speed, but in an autocross the action is non-stop. That's probably what road racers and track addicts are unprepared for.

Mattax said:

Definately keep doing those pullups, it will make you a better driver. View attachment 1715395105

I basically agree.^^^
Rubber bushings aren't totally useless, but for sports driving poly a cheap improvement. Especially on the links, polyurethane will provide a more immediate response.
BUT. On a stock link, double up the washers or buy some heavy aftermarket washers and tube with the polyurathane bushings.
Otherwise the tube will eventually punch through the washers.
When going polyurethane on the mounts, use 'polygraphite', or better yet, install grease fittings.

It looks like you had an autocross type environment - lots of runoff and spin room. if so, then that's definately the place to feel out the limits.
One small caution. Even street tires have noticibly less grip on street than when running an event. I think its a combination of heat and the buildup of rubber off of everyones tires into the courses. I noticed this most after autocross events in the wet.
Drag strip is definately useful for focusing on engine and drivetrain changes. Its one reason I'm trying to work that into my schedule rather than a track event. Top end doesn't quite feel right and I also want to check the AFR at the high rpms and load.


Hmmm. I'd be cautious about a rear bar. Set it as soft as you can to start.


That's where Firm Feel's bars are a little easier for folks; no welding.
I don't know what Hotchkis instructions say, but another tip from the school of hard knocks. When you go to weld the brackets to the LCA, tack them or mark them with the car at normal ride height. Mock it up with the bar hanging from the K and the links.

I agree! One thing we see a lot is that good autocrossers tend to develop into good road racers. But road racers often have a hard time becoming good autocrossers. One speculation is that autocross emphasizes precision relative to the track (as oppose to other cars), and that everything happens very quick. On a track the car is going at higher speed, but in an autocross the action is non-stop. That's probably what road racers and track addicts are unprepared for.

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So as a life long drag racer showing my ignorance, what is difference between auto cross and road racing?

Sublime one said:

So as a life long drag racer showing my ignorance, what is difference between auto cross and road racing?

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I'm sure you're not the only person here with that question!

Autocross = Timed runs through a course made up of traffic pylons. Every cone knocked out of its box is time penalty, usually 2 seconds.
Track event = Driving at speed on a road course. Share the course with other drivers of similar skill. Passing allowed by point by. Usually no timing.
Often goes by other names such as High Performance Driver Education or Experience, Track-night, Track day.
Road race = Driving against other drivers on a road course. Starting position is based on qualifying times (best timed run on the course). Winning is based on first car across the finish line after x number of laps (or hours for enduros).

Time Attacks & High Speed Autocross are usually a timed competition on a road course or portion of a road course. Rules vary with sanctioning group and classes. Anything approaching race car type situations almost always requires race car type safety equipment. Again, varies with sanctioning organization and track.
Hill climbs are amongst the oldest and best known type of competitive time trial, and they always require at least a 4 pt bar, race seat, harness, suit etc.

Carefull, you’ll get addicted

Examples:
Autocross
@abodyjoe shot this video a few years ago. The reason I'm posting it is not my skills (definately rusty!), but becaues you can pretty much see the whole course.

This is how it should be when its done really well. (Not mopar video. lol)


High Speed Autocross
Mitch Lelito Challenger T/A clone at 2014 Midwest Council HSAX


Track Day at Willow Springs.
@autoxcuda posted this a few years ago. He noted the cars are sticking closer together than normal track event for the purpose of making this video.


Road Race,
New Jersey Road Race Classic (JRRC, pronounced jerk) inside Robert Benson's '66 Dart


Hillclimb,
Jess Neal 'Team Cuda' at Pikes Peak Hillclimb
Featured in Hot Rod Unlimited Episode 16 (2012)
1971 Plymouth 'Cuda Conquers Pikes Peak! - HOT ROD Unlimited Episode 16
View from over the driver's left shoulder (my favorite)
Jess Neal at the 2012 Pikes Peak International Hill Climb

dart4forte said:

Carefull, you’ll get addicted

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Oh I already am lol, I was completely expecting this to happen. I've played some of the newer racing video games that have classic Mopars (Forza Motorsport series) and it made me think "man it would feel AMAZING to whip one of these around a track in real life!"

I already have plans to go to the next event and see about registering for next season as well. There's a group of 6-7 people here in Fort Collins I know who are track fiends, they've been going to pretty much every PPIR Time Attack for the past 2 years (they got addicted after the first try as well lol!).