Intermittent No start.

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JoePole1

JoePole1

A dude in a B body
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Hey All. I've had this issue for a few years now. Every once in a while I get these no start situations on my 72 Plymouth with factory electronic ignition. I'm talking once every 3 months or longer. Sometimes when the car is hot and sometimes cold. In the past I have had luck changing out the ballast resistor but did not test them afterwards (away from home deal). I made sure I have bare metal mounting and added additional grounding to the Ign module and the voltage regulator and use dielectric grease on the connectors. I had the issue this weekend and found no spark out of the coil. Swapped the ballast. NFG. Put the old back in. Swapped the VReg (wanted to replace anyway with adjustable) NFG. Left it in. Had a helper crank so I could test and went from no spark to nice hot spark. Car started and ran great ever since. Now I really doubt it was my ballast resistor all along and just luck. I'm also 90% sure I have replaced the Ignition Module since this started as well. The one thing that I do know is that during almost every no start is that after cranking and stop, then releasing the key 1 position, the engine turns over maybe half a turn (not sure forward or back) and I get a slight pop of gas through the carb. I'm kind of thinking I have an ignition switch going on me. I'd like to get nailed down before it leaves me stranded but I guess at least I could diagnose. Anyone ever experience this?
Thanks.
 
That's my problem? It's in the factory electronic distributor? I have a spare dizzy that I can swap out.
Edit - Can you tell me which part in the distributor I should look at please?
The other thing about installing an aftermarket part is that if it craps out,
I can't easily find a replacement at local parts store.
 
Mine was doing that and I swapped out the ignition module & that fixed it. New ones don’t seem to last as long. For $20 at Advance I carry a spare. Mine is just a driver so I don’t care about that last 10%....
 
No backfire. It just wouldn’t start, or would die while driving & wouldn’t restart for awhile.
 
Don't excited with throwing parts at the car, although sometimes this does work. It is possible it's a bad wiring connection, the few that I would look for is...........

right in the ignition switch/ connector. Might be that the IGN2 circuit (usually brown) dies some of the time. Could be through the bulkhead connector

Could be the distributor connector THAT IS A VERY LIKELY suspect as there is NO real current through that connector, only low level AC generated by the distirbutor pickup. So Work that in/ out several times, inspect for corrosion, and "feel" for tightness as you work it.

Also work the main ECU connector in/ out and inspect.

Make CERTAIN the ECU is grounded well.
 
Had one of these run me in circles for 2 years. I'd say this is a smart place to start...OR swap in that spare distributor.
1974 DODGE DART 5.2L 318cid V8 Distributor Pickup Coil | RockAuto

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67Dart273 said:
Don't excited with throwing parts at the car, although sometimes this does work. It is possible it's a bad wiring connection, the few that I would look for is...........

right in the ignition switch/ connector. Might be that the IGN2 circuit (usually brown) dies some of the time. Could be through the bulkhead connector

Could be the distributor connector THAT IS A VERY LIKELY suspect as there is NO real current through that connector, only low level AC generated by the distirbutor pickup. So Work that in/ out several times, inspect for corrosion, and "feel" for tightness as you work it.

Also work the main ECU connector in/ out and inspect.

Make CERTAIN the ECU is grounded well.
Click to expand...

This, there is more to an intermittent no start than the ignition box or pickup. I've seen bad switches, starter relays, grounds, coil, wires, ignition boxes etc.... Get a volt meter and do some sleuthing.

My money is on bad ignition switch or starter relay.
 
Joe; had a similar problem with a Volare'. Cranked but wouldn't start. After a few tries it almost started, but only when I let off the key. Aah ha. Tried that a few more times and it started. I let the car warm up fully to avoid a chance of stalling and to keep the family warm [and happy]. Drove home, put an old ECU unit in it the next day, and it fired right up. Put a new ECU unit in a week later. Put the old good ECU unit in the glove box with a ballast resistor, a phillips screwdriver, and a 7/16 box wrench. Never had to use them. Happiness is.
 
There's always a KIA ^^^^ (know it all) . . . . . didn't sound like a bad switch issue to me. It sounded like a ballast/module issue to me. I know I'll get hammered for this,the Chrysler electronic ignition system is ancient technology with to many pieces. To add to that , most replacement parts are poorly made parts made in other countries. the ignitor system is simple,and it works. :lol:
 
The new ECU's and pickups suck for sure. When a ballast resistor goes it opens no going back with that, I have never seen one ever be intermittent either they work or don't!
 
a12 said:
There's always a KIA ^^^^ (know it all) . . . . . didn't sound like a bad switch issue to me. It sounded like a ballast/module issue to me. I know I'll get hammered for this,the Chrysler electronic ignition system is ancient technology with to many pieces. To add to that , most replacement parts are poorly made parts made in other countries. the ignitor system is simple,and it works. :lol:
Click to expand...

Not being that at all man. I was simply saying IF it's a bad switch, Pertronix would do him no good. That's kinda jumping the gun when he needs to diagnose.
 
a12 said:
There's always a KIA ^^^^ (know it all) . . . . . didn't sound like a bad switch issue to me. It sounded like a ballast/module issue to me. I know I'll get hammered for this,the Chrysler electronic ignition system is ancient technology with to many pieces. To add to that , most replacement parts are poorly made parts made in other countries. the ignitor system is simple,and it works. :lol:
Click to expand...

No argument from me Pertronix is a decent product. Although I've seen very recently people talking about failures in those too. I know somebody needs to make something of good quality because NOS Standard stuff and the like won't last forever. Even MSD has slipped in the past few years. I'm not gonna hammer you because you're right. The Chrysler Electronic Ignition has been around a long time. That doesn't make it a bad choice. It does however, make finding good, quality replacement parts more difficult, since the factory has stopped making them and no one in the aftermarket really makes anything rock solid. I don't like any of the new fangled "rev limiting" ECU boxes, as I've seen those fail as well, so that leaves hunting down good quality NOS stuff, which like I said won't last forever. Unfortunately, nothing is without its flaws, as Pertronix can leave you walking too.
 
I love the petronix I, I just had my first fail in my car, but could have been me leaving the key on for other work (troubleshooting) Mallory mech YL. Not a big fan of the III, have seen three failures on them so far so I wont go near them. As for factory mopar ecu it is a great system the trick is to find parts made pre 1980 for them. I have been picking up NORS ECU's lately for all in one kits and have a old Tektronix tester for them like they used to have in the parts store. Standard and Neighoff seem to be the best for Mopar. Really like the Kem GM 4 pins. The new stuff has a serious high fail rate around 50% when hot. Same on pick up coils and also points condensers.
 
And it's true most of Pertronix stuff is made in USA, but their coils are made globally here, China and Mexico. I read the reason is because there's only one plant that makes coils here and they cannot keep up with production.
 
RustyRatRod said:
And it's true most of Pertronix stuff is made in USA, but their coils are made globally here, China and Mexico. I read the reason is because there's only one plant that makes coils here and they cannot keep up with production.
Click to expand...
I did not know that. Their flamethrower coil seems to perform well for sure.
 
Never saw a nos one before. That will go into a special car for sure. I am a points fan for a driver myself like you.
 
Your ignition switch would do this intermittent. It is the only thing that would give it spark when leaving off the key besides the ballast and you changed that. The ballast would be consistent its either bad or good. When cranking the engine the coil gets 12 volts, When releasing to run it gets 8 volts . I believe you have an ignition switch problem.
 
a12 said:
There's always a KIA ^^^^ (know it all) . . . . . didn't sound like a bad switch issue to me. It sounded like a ballast/module issue to me. I know I'll get hammered for this,the Chrysler electronic ignition system is ancient technology with to many pieces. To add to that , most replacement parts are poorly made parts made in other countries. the ignitor system is simple,and it works. :lol:
Click to expand...

Here's the deal man.
The factory ignition system has two circuits that come out of the ignition switch.
Ign.1 and Ign.2.
When you turn the key to the on position you are supplying the ignition coil power through one circuit. (the run circuit)
When you turn the key to start, the ignition is supplied power through a different circuit inside the switch. (the start circuit)
If you crank the engine and it doesn't fire until you let off the key it means the start circuit isn't getting power but the run circuit is. (usually)
A low battery can also cause this because the coil doesn't get good power until the starter isn't cranking but the engine hasn't quite stopped turning yet.

Sometimes it's caused by the "Start" side of the ballast being burned out and only supplying power to the ignition through the "Run" circuit. (let the key back from start and suddenly there is power to the coil and the engine tries)
Other times it can be a wiring issue, and others it can be the ignition switch or wiring in between.
And THEN there's the random spark from the coil every time you turn the ignition off from the coil field dropping, so that can also confuse things a bit when there's a pop from a cylinder when the key is turn off when the engine hasn't started after being cranked.

So, only firing when the keys is let off the start position usually means the power to the "Run" side of the ignition is dead for whatever reason.
A different ignition module type would also not have power to it in the "Run" position.
PLUS, the point made above about replacing parts with parts that can usually only be ordered is a totally valid concern.

IMO, you are a bit new to be calling people you don't know anything about "Know it all".

I also vote for a bad switch, connector or wiring to the ballast. (since he replaced the ballast already)
It's also possible the pigtail connector on the distributor is making an intermittent contact because of the heat cycling of the engine.
(Turn the key off from cranking, the coil field drops and POP)
 
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