LA top end rebuild question

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I guess I'm stupid, but what's the lock collar you keep talkin about?
I think like this:
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Good Day everyone.
I am in progress of rebuilding/ replacing the top end on my 340. I plan to replace from the cam up. My question is - has anyone experienced installing a Milodon gear drive and if so how did it come out? Was it a worthwhile upgrade? I was toying with the idea of replacing my double roller timing chain and gear set with one of these. I know it is quite a bit more $ than the typical chain/ gear. I was thinking about the longevity of a gear set vs a chain/ gear set. My current timing chain is a bit stretched and should be replaced anyway.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.
Something like a Cloyes or Rollmaster true double roller and your done.
 
I like mine and it's quiet enough that you can't tell it. I have a buddies small block nova in the garage right now and it has a Pete Jackson in it and it noisey.
 
First off I dont have a gear drive so no skin in that game but I will say most common double roller chains are junk now imo.We used to run cloyes double rollers in just about everything but it seems the quality just isnt there now. The last cloyes that was bad only had a couple thousand miles on it was too lose and that was a chevy small block.My advice is open the wallet and buy the best billet true roller chain you can or get a gear drive.
One thing you all should know if you plan on EFI on you engine in the future. Which will be the only way to go with today's fuels. You cannot use a gear drive. They interfere with the Knock sensor if used. The harmonics are terrible which also causes wear. Today belt drive is the way to go. You get what you pay for
 
Who has belt drives for the SBM & what is involved in installing the belt drive?
Jessel has them. I think they are around $1700 you can get around $2500 into the conversion with the crank triggered ignition.

But then you can eliminate the distributor. 1 coil pack per cylinder. You will need fabricated valve covers to weld on mounts for the coils. Complete tune with a lap top with TPI .

Now you don't need the ignition and the TPI but if you ever heard a SBM rev with this system you'll want one.

The quiet smooth belt drive or true roller is a must for a good injection system . Gear drives are a thing of the past. The noise is for EGO not performance.

I might put one on a heavy hauling big block truck not a car. Diesels have gear drives they have the torque that they can afford to lose.

Last time I checked I haven't seen any sprint car or NASCAR teams using Gear drives. They would lose a car or two coming off every turn. That is how bad they are on using torque.

You don't have to agree. This is only the way I look at this Gear drive controversy. You all can do and believe what your granddad's taught you.

Wonder what they are using on the new Hellephant motors. ????? LOL

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That cost. Seems a bit excessive for a street engine.
Gear drive and the Jesel system.
After all we are talking about the OP’s engine....
 
Most folks have said it's quiet. I installed one on the 429 Cobra Jet in my Cobra replica several years ago. Had several folks wonder if I had a supercharger because of the noise. Just my experience.


You had a Milodon GD and it made noise? If so, it was either installed wrong or it had issues and should have went back. I've used dozens of Mlodon GD's and never had a single one make noise.
 
Gear drives use up more torque. There is noting better than a light weight true roller. A good quality true roller. Pricey but well worth the money. If your not worried about the torque loss. Have at it what ever floats your boat.

Here is what I can tell you all. A roller timing chain most of them from summit are junk . The way you can tell a true roller is the barrel of the roller in the chain must spin. If it doesn't it is just a double roller they are junk.

Back in the day Grumpy Jenkins would run a factory nylon over aluminum gear and chain. Any weight you can eliminate from the reciprocating mass of an engine will increase torque.

If I were to change to anything it would be a belt drive. $$$$

My chain in my motor was in there for over 8 years of some high torque loads and RPM's When we tore the engine down it was still tight. They make different length chains for initial builds if your Crank to cam center line is short. correction The chains are not shorter the sprockets are bigger. They come in .005" and .010" oversize.

Mine had to be special ordered shorter. Tensioners are for mild motors or for idiot built race motors. They only hold the same length under a pull or at idle . Accelerate and decelerate RPM's the tensioner jumps. Close valve to piston clearance and you are taking a chance.

Remember this, A "True roller" not "Double roller" 340's came with "Double rollers". The cheapest true roller is a "Cloyes true roller". They are a good chain and perfect for any Street/ mild or race build engine.

I stayed with a chain in the small block because the motor was built like this originally .The timing cover mods and other parts are just things we don't want o spend money on again . Our BB will be a belt drive with a crank triggered ignition. The distributor is just another thing you have to turn .

This is only my opinion and what I prefer. Everyone has there own preference. To me those heavy heat treated gears are not good for the cam or main bearings. Give it some good thought. As the are loaded they are pushing out on the cam shaft and crank shaft

Besides the 8" converter .The only thing the crank drives on our small block is the Timing chain Altenator and Distributor. He shut the Alternator off while staging.

"True Roller" Or a "Belt drive"

View attachment 1715402445

View attachment 1715402446


Post your PROOF that a good gear drive takes more power to drive, because you are wrong again. Just show the proof.

Gears take LESS power to drive than a chain. It's that simple.

Gears are more accurate. Stumpy Thinkins was crazy back then. The lobes he was using on his roller junk aren't as good as high end flat tappet stuff today and he didn't run much spring load either.

If he was writing today he'd say to run a belt drive.

Go look around on YouTube for running chain dynamics. Those junk chains whip around like mad under that timing cover. Another reason you need more P/V with a chain.
 
One thing you all should know if you plan on EFI on you engine in the future. Which will be the only way to go with today's fuels. You cannot use a gear drive. They interfere with the Knock sensor if used. The harmonics are terrible which also causes wear. Today belt drive is the way to go. You get what you pay for


And there it is. Let's see the PROOF of this.

They won't use a gear drive because of cost.
 
That cost. Seems a bit excessive for a street engine.
Gear drive and the Jesel system.
After all we are talking about the OP’s engine....
You asked who made them. A good true roller is what I use. They are the least expensive and I never had a good one stretch. You get what you pay for. "Roll master" is a good set for a race car. Cloyes is the cheapest true roller and work well. True rollers have less harmonics then a standard chain, Double roller, or gears, Less wear.

My big block will get a belt.
 
Post your PROOF that a good gear drive takes more power to drive, because you are wrong again. Just show the proof.

Gears take LESS power to drive than a chain. It's that simple.

Gears are more accurate. Stumpy Thinkins was crazy back then. The lobes he was using on his roller junk aren't as good as high end flat tappet stuff today and he didn't run much spring load either.

If he was writing today he'd say to run a belt drive.

Go look around on YouTube for running chain dynamics. Those junk chains whip around like mad under that timing cover. Another reason you need more P/V with a chain.
Listen "yellow fish with no teeth just lips" I posted clearly this is my opinion so I don't have to hear from your pie hole. But its only common sense "which you do not have" that the more weight you have to turn the more torque it takes.

Gear drives are only
preferred on engines that turn more than the cam such as Oil pump ,fuel pimp, power steering, This is the world of outlaw cars. Not normal 358's or 410's. As far a harmonics interfering with the Knock sensor that to is common knowledge. You think your brain is almighty. You don't have to always call people out personally. Take the advise plus others and use it as you feel fit. You are always looking for an argument. I wouldn't let you put a Chain on my bicycle. The reason is you think your way is the only way. You are what we would normally call a Donkey Crater.

Now I know these guys are *** holes in your world also But I just did a quick search. Seams like you are eating your words again. Watch both videos and listen carefully. I post my opinions, You post bullshit. "yellow fish with no teeth just lips"



KoiPond-fshDo-Koi-have-teeth-390x268.jpg
 
Using that lock collar works great. But you can perfect it even better if you put the oil pump drive shaft in a lathe and bore a slight recess in the gear. Then cut the exact step in the collar while tightened on the excact diameter shaft as the distributor. You do not have to go deep just 1.25 deeper then the recommended clearance. What this does is prevents side movement on the distributor shaft also. Just another helpful hint you may want to consider if using a collar. Now I am sure "Yellow fish with no teeth just lips" has a better way so lets wait for the professional advise.
 
Good Day everyone.
I am in progress of rebuilding/ replacing the top end on my 340. I plan to replace from the cam up. My question is - has anyone experienced installing a Milodon gear drive and if so how did it come out? Was it a worthwhile upgrade? I was toying with the idea of replacing my double roller timing chain and gear set with one of these. I know it is quite a bit more $ than the typical chain/ gear. I was thinking about the longevity of a gear set vs a chain/ gear set. My current timing chain is a bit stretched and should be replaced anyway.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Thanks everyone for the great input on this discussion - gear drive vs timing chain set. There were some awesome and somewhat comical responses. I think I am going with a quality timing chain set. :)
 
Listen "yellow fish with no teeth just lips" I posted clearly this is my opinion so I don't have to hear from your pie hole. But its only common sense "which you do not have" that the more weight you have to turn the more torque it takes.

Gear drives are only
preferred on engines that turn more than the cam such as Oil pump ,fuel pimp, power steering, This is the world of outlaw cars. Not normal 358's or 410's. As far a harmonics interfering with the Knock sensor that to is common knowledge. You think your brain is almighty. You don't have to always call people out personally. Take the advise plus others and use it as you feel fit. You are always looking for an argument. I wouldn't let you put a Chain on my bicycle. The reason is you think your way is the only way. You are what we would normally call a Donkey Crater.

Now I know these guys are *** holes in your world also But I just did a quick search. Seams like you are eating your words again. Watch both videos and listen carefully. I post my opinions, You post bullshit. "yellow fish with no teeth just lips"



View attachment 1715402731




Once again, you don't have a clue as to what you say. I thought you were leaving.

Other than some bullshit from summit, show me where a gear drive is hard on parts or takes more power to drive. I've looked. Called out NASCAR people. It's not there. There is not one thing about a FIXED IDLER GEAR DRIVE that takes more power or causes harmonics. It's pure bullcrap and you are pushing it.

So again, show me from a reputable source to back your claims. Otherwise, you are just a lying thief like I've said before.
 
Thanks everyone for the great input on this discussion - gear drive vs timing chain set. There were some awesome and somewhat comical responses. I think I am going with a quality timing chain set. :)


You can do what you want. But you swallowed the lies. Any fool can go on YouTube and watch what a chain does under load.

Does a good gear drive cost more. Yup. Is it worth it. Yup. The fools who say otherwise have never used one. But they run their mouths like they have.
 
That cost. Seems a bit excessive for a street engine.
Gear drive and the Jesel system.
After all we are talking about the OP’s engine....


I agree. Cost is the ONLY argument. Other than that, there is no question which is better. I use them on my street engines. Some times stepping over donuts to pick up dog turds ain't worth it.
 
You asked who made them. A good true roller is what I use. They are the least expensive and I never had a good one stretch. You get what you pay for. "Roll master" is a good set for a race car. Cloyes is the cheapest true roller and work well. True rollers have less harmonics then a standard chain, Double roller, or gears, Less wear.

My big block will get a belt.
Jesel makes the belt drive correct?
Under the timing cover set up?
 
I agree. Cost is the ONLY argument. Other than that, there is no question which is better. I use them on my street engines. Some times stepping over donuts to pick up dog turds ain't worth it.



I actually like reading some or most of your posts but man you like spending other guys money for idiotic non needed parts. Lol. 85% of these guys need a gear drive about as much as I need bigger manboobs
 
Once again, you don't have a clue as to what you say. I thought you were leaving.



Other than some bullshit from summit, show me where a gear drive is hard on parts or takes more power to drive. I've looked. Called out NASCAR people. It's not there. There is not one thing about a FIXED IDLER GEAR DRIVE that takes more power or causes harmonics. It's pure bullcrap and you are pushing it.

So again, show me from a reputable source to back your claims. Otherwise, you are just a lying thief like I've said before.

Listen "Yellow fish with no teeth just lips"

This is on the Jessel ad for the belt drive I included the ad above. You probably didn't read it or listen to the videos. Can you ever admit when you learn something. You couldn't have legitimately passed grade school. They must have pushed you through just to get rid of you. Have someone read this to you a couple of times . They will explain the big words you don't know. This was my first post on belt drives when a member asked me who sells them.


Jesels ad
Innovation is at the forefront of any product produced by Jesel and that’s why our Camshaft Belt Drive Systems are one of the most sought after components in the racing industry today. From the first prototype camshaft belt drive ever manufactured by Dan Jesel back in 1982 to the sleekness of today’s CNC machined pieces, Jesel Camshaft Belt Drives continue to lead the industry as the premiere camshaft belt drive assembly. In the never ending quest for more horsepower, engine builders in the 1970’s began using larger cam lobes which in turn required stiffer springs. The stiffer springs allowed the engine to turn more rpm, but eventually became too much for a timing chain to handle. At the time, gear drives were the only solution, but they bring with them their own set of problems. Gear drives transfer a tremendous amount of crankshaft harmonics to the valvetrain, not to mention taking incredible amounts of horsepower to drive. As necessity is the birth of most components in high performance engines, the Jesel Camshaft Belt Drive was created to solve these problems

If you need a tissue get one from your neighbor since you probably are still crumbling up news paper to wipe your ***.



KoiPond-fshDo-Koi-have-teeth-390x268.jpg
 
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