727 fluid level

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1994redram

1994redram

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I've researched this topic all over but never found a sure answer.

I installed my 727 about 2 years ago and used a Milodon braided stainless dipstick. I put a transgo shift kit in it and a 2800 stall. The engine made 304 HP at the wheels and it went 12.80 in the 1/4. It NEVER felt like it slipped, but it never had a good firm shift. It always shifted soft.

I built a 408 and decided to have the trans rebuilt. The builder insisted on using a TCI valvebody. The shifts were still soft and boring after the build. The trans locked up after ~20 miles, so i sent it back to the builder. It ended up being the reverse band piston turned sideways and smoked the band. He went thru the the trans again to clean it out and he double checked everything for the soft shifts and lack of downshifting after coming to a stop.

I put the trans back in and it's still the same! I'm thinking the fluid is awfully high. I pulled the dipstick back out. At the FULL level on the stick the fluid is nearly 3/4" above the top of the trans case. The add line is about level with the top of the case. I don't have a stock tube to compare with. I have a deep pan installed and I prefilled the converter, the trans took 9 quarts to get it full.
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Also, the dipstick says to check the fluid level when hot and in park. Chrysler requires the fluid to be checked in neutral. I'm thinking Milodon dropped the ball on this dipstick.
 
1994redram said:
Also, the dipstick says to check the fluid level when hot and in park. Chrysler requires the fluid to be checked in neutral. I'm thinking Milodon dropped the ball on this dipstick.
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The length of the dipstick looks to be the correct length.

For checking the fluid warm up the car, block the wheels, have it idling in neutral, that is when the pump is pumping fluid, not in park.

Like the Transgo SK TF SC shift kit. This kit allows the pump to pump fluid in Park, but is still recommended to check the fluid idling in neutral. Trans pumps fluid better in neutral to fill the torque converter and give the best "Pan Level" fluid reading.

Some of the Trans guys on here like Old Kimmer and TrailBeast can tell you how to firm up your shifts. PR adjustments with the Transgo Kit are: Spring Seat Flush, believe you can back that off 1/4" and it will firm up your shifts. Also enlarging the recommended holes in the separator plate firms up the shifts too. But best to ask the trans guys to be sure.

PR Adjusting Screw is on the lower left of this picture of the valve body, can adjust in the car with the pan off.

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George Jets said:
The length of the dipstick looks to be the correct length.

For checking the fluid warm up the car, block the wheels, have it idling in neutral, that is when the pump is pumping fluid, not in park.

Like the Transgo SK TF SC shift kit. This kit allows the pump to pump fluid in Park, but is still recommended to check the fluid idling in neutral. Trans pumps fluid better in neutral to fill the torque converter and give the best "Pan Level" fluid reading.

Some of the Trans guys on here like Old Kimmer and TrailBeast can tell you how to firm up your shifts. PR adjustments with the Transgo Kit are: Spring Seat Flush, believe you can back that off 1/4" and it will firm up your shifts. Also enlarging the recommended holes in the separator plate firms up the shifts too. But best to ask the trans guys to be sure.

PR Adjusting Screw is on the lower left of this picture of the valve body, can adjust in the car with the pan off.

View attachment 1715383927
View attachment 1715383928
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, I now have a TCI forward shift valve body. The shifts were soft and mild with both the previous transgo modified valve body and the current TCI valvebody.

I set the line pressure "flush" at first and eventually adjust it 4 turns more per the transgo instructions. It didn't make much difference. The TCI that is now installed has the line pressure cranked way up past the transgo settings as far as the screw settings go.

I just got a transmission pressure test kit from my dad, I'll check out the actual line pressure when I get time.
 
The normal level is right about flush with the dipstick hole. That dipstick looks fine other than the wrong directions stamped on it. Milodon probably repurposed a ford or chevy dipstick.
 
That dipstick looks pretty darn close to a stock level to me. Maybe not tho, as the stock one wouldnt have that much shoulder and the double o-rings, so you may want to run about 3/8" higher on the stick and see. You can always pull it back out. I'd try and different core and rebuild again. You may have a bad case or other major component. I guess the pressure test will tell you for sure!
 
CudaFactHackJob said:
I guess we're all assuming that you have the kd lever hooked up properly and adjusted correctly...
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I`m thinking a hi fluid level wont make it shift too soft , would have a tendancy to leak tho ---ask me how I know. Had the same problem w/ the dipstick , but not the shifts. Mine slams hi gear so hard if I`m not accelerating it worries me . Already backed the throttle kick down off a hair , barely helped .
 
"lack of downshifting after coming to a stop". Does that mean that it's stuck in a higher gear and that you have to downshift manually to get it to take off in first? Sounds like a governor problem.
 
CudaFactHackJob said:
"lack of downshifting after coming to a stop". Does that mean that it's stuck in a higher gear and that you have to downshift manually to get it to take off in first? Sounds like a governor problem.
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You are correct. I have personally removed and inspected the governor in the tailshaft. The trans builder also said it all looked great. I've always had an issue with it not wanting to down shift to 1st after a stop. It works fine when manually shifted. I assumed that I messed something up on the transgo install, but it's still acting up with the new TCI valvebody.
 
You inspected it; he said it looked great...whatever; throw it in the trash can. They're too hard to change. If you take the trans apart completely, check the governor support. Unbolt it from the case and check everything about it. If you want to study that governor, take it apart right next to a known good one and I think you'll see a difference. Might just be a stuck governor valve. I wonder if A&A still has governor PN 22204-58 to shift automatically at 6200 wot.
 
What are the clearances set at in the clutch packs and the what are the bands set at? Does sound like u have a bad/sticking governor. What ratio is the front apply lever? How many springs in the front servo? What converter and stall speed is it? Kim
 
Converter is a custom 9.5" PTC 3200 stall. The apply lever is a 2.9 ratio. The band's were set by the builder to "TCI recommended specs" per the builder. I have since adjusted them to factory specs per my ATSG manual.

I don't know the clutch clearances. I don't know how many springs are in the servo either.
 
I drove the car last night and it "locked up" on me in 2nd gear. The shifter was in D AND it started dragging/bogging. I limped the car ~5miles home and had no reverse when backing into the garage. The fluid was dark red and smelt burnt. I pulled the pan and found the L/R piston stuck in the extended position. I got it unstuck an it retracted into the case and released the band. I then pulled the valve body to inspect the band and drum.

The band is wasted, its down to metal. The drum is all scored up and blue/purple. Unfortunately, I need to pull the trans out, AGAIN!
 
I think TransGo recommends tightening the band until the drum won't move by hand on the driveshaft; then back off 1 turn. Too much clearance allows that piston to wobble. I guess it started taking off in first gear like it's supposed to...otherwise I'm sure you wouldn't have taken off for a five mile drive..
 
CudaFactHackJob said:
You inspected it; he said it looked great...whatever; throw it in the trash can. They're too hard to change. If you take the trans apart completely, check the governor support. Unbolt it from the case and check everything about it. If you want to study that governor, take it apart right next to a known good one and I think you'll see a difference. Might just be a stuck governor valve. I wonder if A&A still has governor PN 22204-58 to shift automatically at 6200 wot.
Click to expand...

I have one in my garage , I never got around to installing.
 
I rebuilt the trans the evening. It was FUBAR'ed. The jam nut for the low/reverse band adjuster was loose. I think it backed out and allowed the piston to over travel and get stuck. It's warped and bent and has a small crack. The band and drum are trash.

The clutches were burnt and needed replaced. But I was shocked to find that the inner seal for the front clutch piston was gone! The trans builder didnt put one in it. I'm surprised the car drove at all... The trans was full of clutch material.

So it now has billet servos, billet accumulator, 3.8:1 lever, alto red clutches, ALL of the seals replaced, two new rigid band's and a new drum. I should have just built it myself from the start. Lesson learned to quit being lazy and just do it myself from now on.

The pics show some of the destruction after about 20 miles of driving this "built" trans. Im pissed I payed that guy $950 for lousy work.

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1994redram said:
I rebuilt the trans the evening. It was FUBAR'ed. The jam nut for the low/reverse band adjuster was loose. I think it backed out and allowed the piston to over travel and get stuck. It's warped and bent and has a small crack. The band and drum are trash.

The clutches were burnt and needed replaced. But I was shocked to find that the inner seal for the front clutch piston was gone! The trans builder didnt put one in it. I'm surprised the car drove at all... The trans was full of clutch material.

So it now has billet servos, billet accumulator, 3.8:1 lever, alto red clutches, ALL of the seals replaced, two new rigid band's and a new drum. I should have just built it myself from the start. Lesson learned to quit being lazy and just do it myself from now on.

The pics show some of the destruction after about 20 miles of driving this "built" trans. Im pissed I payed that guy $950 for lousy work.

View attachment 1715403620 View attachment 1715403621 View attachment 1715403622
Click to expand...

Sad to see, but yes motivation for learning to build your own for sure. Then you know what you got . . .
 
Like looking at the inside of that valve body @1994redram

Did the "Trans-Go" trans reprogram kit to a 727 here, very happy with the results on how things shifted, and worked. Think that is going to be standard issue on the transmissions we go through here. Went conservative on the separator plate drillings as I did not want it banging into gears.
 
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