2 - 1''Row Alum rads Any good

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A Body 440 WHY NOT

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I am putting a 440 into a 69 Dart . I am see these 2 row alum rads with "true" 1''tubes that claim to be better than 3 or 4 row rads. Anybody running one of these 2 row rads ? The ad is all over this web site. Naturally , on a budget. Any rad ideas ? I was going to use a 26'' rad and want to get one large enough for NO overheat issues.
Thanks guys ,
 
I'm putting together the same setup but 383 instead of 440. I've seen both of these radiators, and I'm certain the two 1" tubes will be far more efficient at flowing than more rows of smaller tubes. Partly it's a volume thing, based on total area of the tubes. Liquid flows better through a larger tube than a smaller one due to the ratio of wall area to liquid volume. Smaller tubes will be harder to push a given volume through and would result in greater pressure. I've checked with multiple BB Dart gurus, who all agree - you really want a 26" radiator. These things are not easy to keep cool. YMMV, of course.
 
What did the factory put in for rad, fan, pulleys, water pump. I bet the engineers spent a lot of time getting the application correct for most conditions

Just my two cents.
 
Yes! As long as you get a good quality brand, such as Griffin, for instance. They cool better than most import 4 row radiators. Be Cool Is another good choice. So is a brass/copper Modine, IF you can find one.
 
I run a Northern 22" radiator with the two 1" cores on my 383 Dart with a Fan shroud and flex fan and 180 stat.
Never had any overheating issues, good solid radiator that's made for the 383-440 motors.

Screen Shot 2019-10-15 at 12.40.47 AM.png
 
I run a 3 core, 26" champion radiator for a .060" over, iron-headed 340 pushing 400+ hp. I've never had cooling issues with it. I use a Ford Contour dual electric fan set up with a programmable controller so I can set the exact temps to run my engine at, and so far that's held up even on 110* days. Cheapest radiator you can buy, works great. $130 OE electric fan. 190* standard thermostat, GMB high volume water pump.

There isn't a radiator manufacturer out there that provides enough data to really do the calculations to figure out how much heat they'll dissipate or how much water they'll flow. Make assumptions about how much a 1" tube can flow without the friction loss numbers and I can tell you that's all they are, assumptions. The 2 row 1" radiator manufacturer say theirs are best and provide no data to prove it. The 3 and 4 core radiator manufacturers say their radiators are best and provide no data to prove it. None of the websites provide actual data, just a sales pitch.

I'm putting together the same setup but 383 instead of 440. I've seen both of these radiators, and I'm certain the two 1" tubes will be far more efficient at flowing than more rows of smaller tubes. Partly it's a volume thing, based on total area of the tubes. Liquid flows better through a larger tube than a smaller one due to the ratio of wall area to liquid volume. Smaller tubes will be harder to push a given volume through and would result in greater pressure. I've checked with multiple BB Dart gurus, who all agree - you really want a 26" radiator. These things are not easy to keep cool. YMMV, of course.

Everything you said about tube volume and how liquid flows is a giant assumption. Greater pressures? OK, sure boss. Radiator tubes aren't round. A 1" tube isn't a diameter, it can be smashed down to 1/32" of an inch wide and it won't flow "more efficient" than a "smaller" tube. It has a longer cross section, but that doesn't necessarily mean better flow like you think.

I'm not saying the 2 core 1" radiators won't work, they will. All I'm saying is, I've seen cheap radiators work great and expensive radiators not get the job done. There's a couple of threads on this board about $700, name brand radiators not cutting it. Don't believe the manufacturer's hype on either side, because none of the websites have good scientific data. Just stuff that seems "science-y" and kinda makes sense. Well, the devil is in the details, and they don't publish those numbers. A big tube with water in the middle that isn't close enough to the tube walls to conduct heat transfer efficiently isn't an advantage. You can do larger tubes and get less cooling if it's not done right. The radiator that flows the most water doesn’t necessarily dissipate the most heat, and that’s what you need.

A cooling system is more than a radiator too. You have to have the right water pump, pulley diameters, and thermostat too. And that's before you even get into fans. And they all have to be matched and work together. Use a really nice radiator with the wrong pump and it won't work. Use the right pump with the wrong pulley and it won't work. You get the idea, you need the components to work together. Buying the most expensive radiator just means you spent the most money, not that you'll have the best cooling system. You have to look at everything when you ask someone about their radiator. What pump are they running, what's the pulley ratio, what fan they have, what thermostat. It all makes a difference.
 
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I’ve used champion and griffin radiators with the two 1” tubes. Both worked very well.

I stuck a radiator out of an s10 truck in a rat rod with a 383.... that thing is only about 3/4 thick and cools the engine great with a clutch fan and no shroud. I didn’t think it would work but it does. Lots of factors involved in making a system work
 
I am really happy with my cold case radiator,it has 1.25 tubes,also got a discount for being a fabo member,just message Ccas for info.
 
I have a cheap, dual 1" core, 26" aluminum radiator with the biggest s blade fan and shroud that could possibly fit. Also have a moroso elec water pump. It does NOT cool a 600hp engine once warm.

Do it once, do it right.

There is truth in the increased volume/cooling of the 1.25 tubed cores doing the job better. That's what I'm buying this winter. (1.25 dual tubed rad)
 
Cold Case and Griffin both have dual 1 1/4" tubes for the absolute top of the line cooling.

More volume = better cooling.
 
Cold Case and Griffin both have dual 1 1/4" tubes for the absolute top of the line cooling.

More volume = better cooling.

Clearly you’re a salesman and not someone that designs radiators.

More volume does not necessarily mean better cooling, that’s just a wild oversimplification. With any heat exchanger surface area is by far the largest driving component of the thermodynamic equation. The ability for the coolant to dissipate heat is far more important than the coolant volume.

Look, I’m not saying you don’t sell good radiators. But you’re tossing around sales pitches, not data.
 
Clearly you’re a salesman and not someone that designs radiators.

More volume does not necessarily mean better cooling, that’s just a wild oversimplification. With any heat exchanger surface area is by far the largest driving component of the thermodynamic equation. The ability for the coolant to dissipate heat is far more important than the coolant volume.

Look, I’m not saying you don’t sell good radiators. But you’re tossing around sales pitches, not data.


It's all about flow. It's that simple. Two bigger tubes will out flow three smaller tubes. More isn't better.

Buy the biggest core you can fit, with the two biggest tubes you can get and get the waterpump overdriven. You can cool anything with that.

The data doesn't support more smaller tubes.
 
What data?


If you call Griffin radiators, Stewart components or Evans Coolant they'll give you the data. It isn't hard to find. This crap has been know for almost 100 years.

The marketing ploy of more tubes of smaller diameter is just that. Marketing nonsense.

Also, the two bigger tubes will cause more turbulance (so will speeding up the water pump to where it should be and using a high flow pump) than more, smaller tubes.

You can find this stuff if you go look.
 
I am putting a 440 into a 69 Dart . I am see these 2 row alum rads with "true" 1''tubes that claim to be better than 3 or 4 row rads. Anybody running one of these 2 row rads ? The ad is all over this web site. Naturally , on a budget. Any rad ideas ? I was going to use a 26'' rad and want to get one large enough for NO overheat issues.
Thanks guys ,
Talk to the folks at Griffin they are the best game out there.
I have had several of their two row radiators never had any issues.

Barracuda new 340 002.JPG
 
I went with a OER 2 core 1 inch aluminum radiator. I think it was around 400-500. Looks like factory radiator. 22 inch.

I run a factory 7 blade clutch fan setup with no shroud on my 500 hp 408 stroker. I use a Flowkooler billet factory appearing 68 style waterpump and a milodon high flow balanced thermostat. My battery died when I was on a cruise and I had several stops to make last summer so I couldn't shut my car off. I let it idle for 30 minutes in 90 degree heat and it never got hot.

Downside is you can't run a factory shroud without making some modifications to it which is why I didn't bother being it doesn't over heat anyways.
 
There are several types of radiator construction....plate fin, stacked fin, staggered tube and others.

We ran a 427 Ford on the dirt tracks years ago...used a plate fin radiator from a 40's Lincoln V-12. Never got over 180 degrees. Never had to cool it down.

I've had to replace a few radiators in my trucks over the years. A rep from Modine told me when Peterbilt designed the new for 1987 379 conventional they wanted a radiator that would last 1,000,000 miles. They chose a plate fin radiator design.

The one iny 379 lasted almost two million miles until a drink illegal pulled in from of me.

A staggered tube design will generally be the best in an automobile. The tubes get more air flow.

Two tube radiators are ok if sized correctly. Two BIG tubes.

I prefer copper... When push comes to shove aluminum just can't compare. There a zero aluminum radiators in HD trucks and equipment. Well maybe in Volvo's or Freightshakers...those are trucks for people who don't know trucks.

US Radiator carries a nice line of copper radiators.
 
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Thanks All ! thats a lot of info
What diameter pulleys are best to run ? Crank and WP ? I have some pulleys , but they may be small bloc. I don't know if the diameter is different or no ?
 
Thanks All ! thats a lot of info
What diameter pulleys are best to run ? Crank and WP ? I have some pulleys , but they may be small bloc. I don't know if the diameter is different or no ?


I run my water pump at 6% over crank speed and if I could have found pulleys that were 10% over cranks speed I'd have used those.
 
Clearly you’re a salesman and not someone that designs radiators.

More volume does not necessarily mean better cooling, that’s just a wild oversimplification.

Not sure why you don't think I'm qualified to make that statement but regardless, we have a ton of experience. We better have, or we wouldn't be in the performance radiator business for long! ;)

Anyway I didn't say that the 'only' way to cool is with higher volume. You assumed that I oversimplified my response. I simply stated that a larger volume radiator will dissipate heat better than one with less volume. We firmly stand by that as does just about every other long standing well respected Aluminum radiator manufacturer.

I didn't want to start a big debate about which radiator is best. That's why I went out of my way to include our #1 competitor in the mix nor did a bad mouth any of the other radiator brands or styles available. I have stated in many other posts, a small 2 row, small 3 row and small 4 row radiator may get the job done for your vehicle just fine.
 
Not sure why you don't think I'm qualified to make that statement but regardless, we have a ton of experience. We better have, or we wouldn't be in the performance radiator business for long! ;)

Anyway I didn't say that the 'only' way to cool is with higher volume. You assumed that I oversimplified my response. I simply stated that a larger volume radiator will dissipate heat better than one with less volume. We firmly stand by that as does just about every other long standing well respected Aluminum radiator manufacturer.

I didn't want to start a big debate about which radiator is best. That's why I went out of my way to include our #1 competitor in the mix nor did a bad mouth any of the other radiator brands or styles available. I have stated in many other posts, a small 2 row, small 3 row and small 4 row radiator may get the job done for your vehicle just fine.
I am putting a 440 into a 69 Dart . I am see these 2 row alum rads with "true" 1''tubes that claim to be better than 3 or 4 row rads. Anybody running one of these 2 row rads ? The ad is all over this web site. Naturally , on a budget. Any rad ideas ? I was going to use a 26'' rad and want to get one large enough for NO overheat issues.
Thanks guys ,


I see a company with ads om
n this forum from ECP , " engineered cooling products " They offer a 26'' alum rad for 220$ Anybody use these ? good or bad ? price looks to good to be true
thanks guys,
 
I see a company with ads om
n this forum from ECP , " engineered cooling products " They offer a 26'' alum rad for 220$ Anybody use these ? good or bad ? price looks to good to be true
thanks guys,


It's what I use. It's not a bolt in radiator like they say. They will tell you to check the blueprint. Which I did. The issue is the print doesn't give the X/Y/Z zero so even though you measure the core support against the print and the numbers match, the holes will be out of place when you go to fit it.

That pissed me off because I wasn't nearly as diligent looking at the print as I should have been, and since I can read blue prints I know better.

I didn't want to drill any holes in my core support but I didn't it anyway.

The radiator works, but if I were you, I'd PM member lead69 and ask him about his cold case radiator.

IIRC, he bought one for his car and it was actually a bolt in deal. To me, I'd pay extra for that.

But, the ECP radiator will cool the engine if everything else is correct, no doubt about it. And it's made pretty well. It's not junk by along way. Pretty nice really other than what I mentioned above.
 
I see a company with ads om
n this forum from ECP , " engineered cooling products " They offer a 26'' alum rad for 220$ Anybody use these ? good or bad ? price looks to good to be true
thanks guys,
ECP utilizes dual 1" tubes which is enough for a lot of cars on the road. The reason I had specifically mentioned that a few of us use dual 1 1/4" tubes is simple. Some cars (for whatever reason) need more volume. I have told this story before but well in advance of Cold Case even existing, I had a nightmare overheating problem that prevented me for going cruising on hot summer days. My newly restored 462 stroked 67 GTO had a brand new Desert cooler US Radiator 4 row copper brass radiator. I'd climb 5 degrees every 5 minutes until eventually I'd have to pull over. Sometimes I'd spew antifreeze all over if I didn't shut it down soon enough. I tried many different solutions from shrouds, to thermostats, springs in hoses etc etc. with little or no improvement. I finally bit the bullet and bought an dual 1" aluminum radiator from Rodney Red. I got in some traffic on a hot summer day and Finally! here I was at only 210 after sitting for about 30 minutes. However, my excitement ended when another 15 minutes passed and the temp started climbing again. I had to pull off the road. I thought I was out of options. I then was told about a company that made dual 1 1/4" tube aluminum radiators. (Mark V) I bought and installed it. Everything else remained the same. From that day forward, I have never run past 195 despite repeating the very same driving conditions that caused me to pull over.

Since the radiators were identical except for the size (and volume) of the tubes, the conclusion is pretty clear that the additional volume was enough to solve my problem.

Later on after we started Cold Case, we replaced that Mark V radiator with our version and the car continues to run exactly the same. 195 max.

Over the last 4 years, we've encountered many similar situations with customers and have had an incredibly high success rate.

So I'll say this again and continue to say it; small 2 row, small 3 row, dual 1" and even small 4 row aluminum radiators may solve your overheating problems. But for me and many others, they didn't. So you have to decide whether you want to take that chance or do it once and know that if you still have an overheating issue, it's NOT the radiator.
 
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