j par
Well-hung Member
can you please compiled a list of people that I don't know that I'm supposed to have respect for.
Anyone flowbench the trickflow 190 heads yet???
- Thread starter duster360
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I agree but i think what is trying to be said....or maybe i should just say. I .
I have made this statement many time but i will post it up again......wish i could remember the porters name.......The one that sells Pipe Max software......
any how, he ported two different sets of heads both had the same cross sectional area, both flowed the same CFM and there was a 100 HP difference. Between the two heads.
Two head with the same cfm, But are not even in the same ballpark.
keep that in mind when they say numbers are not that important.
They are! but you can chase yourself down that big cfm rat hole path if you are only thinking cfm.
EDIT let me clarify both set of head were identical in every way before porting then. I made it sound like to different style or brands. no identical heads.
This is how I feel about the guys in the know. Not all ppl are on FB. It’s the same as posting a for sale ad with no pics. Their either to lazy or don’t give a dam about helping others out but their paying customers. Now that I’ve said that let the flaming begin Kim
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You get no argument from me. Somehow I think you already knew that.
j par
Well-hung Member
my favorite is when they dance around the real information while clowning you at the same time... Flame on...
They can't give out every bit that's how they make their money...
How many times do I have to tell you people *it's a profit thing!"..
I don't expect them to shoot himself in the foot...
I can give another example here, @IQ52, but there's a difference. Jim is always gracious about when you ask "too much". Not only that, but he's probably shared more proprietary information than all the other experts on this site combined. If I EVER run into the kind of money it takes to really build a monster, I will talk him into helping me with it.
I agree, Jim has helped lots of ppl out with his postings. He showed how the low compression engines can be a player. His and Cody’s heads porting is right up there with the very best. I have also talked to him on the phone. Great guy. U ask him and he will tell u. Doesn’t make u feel belittled. Kim
Exactly. He doesn't even make you feel belittled when he tells you he caint tell you. LMAO
mderoy340
Well-Known Member
Engine builders need to make a living. The equipment, testing, and knowledge is an investment on their part. You want to play you got to pay if you're upgrading areas beyond your expertise. I have Brian's RHS heads on my car and picked up .4 from my home ported Js with no other changes. Car would even run quicker with the correct cam which is going to happen soon.
I agree 100%. Probably more. I cannot imagine the number of tire kickers they get. But there was no excuse for the response the OP got here. I ain't buyin it. .....and if I was, I wouldn't be buyin it from either of "them".
PRH
Well-Known Member
Frankly, imo you’ve totally missed the point of my posts as well as Jesse’s.
When you buy a set of heads that come from the manufacturer already CNC ported....... they’re going to have VERY little variation from head to head.
If you see wildly varying flow numbers.....the difference is in the bench, not the head.
So, if you had ten sets of numbers, with ten different results...... which one would you believe?
This is not at all the same scenario as an independent CNC head shop that’s buying bare heads and doing them in house...... and you’re trying to compare results from different head services, where the numbers from shop “A” are wildly different than shop “B”.
They may or may not be different, since it’s not the identical product.
So, in that scenario having both A and B heads tested at the same facility would eliminate the variable of different heads being tested at different facilities.
The TF site has flow numbers on their heads. IMM posted his results.
More test results aren’t going to change what the heads actually flow.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Exactly. Flow is just one point that needs to be considered.
It was Jim McFarland (well respected and damn smart guy) who said its more about QUALITY than QUANTITY.
While they both matter, flow quality is often overlooked. You can measure flow quality any number of ways. And you should. But those are the numbers I'm not so fast to share.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
That would be Larry Meaux. And anyone who wants to get a better understanding of cylinder heads, induction and horsepower would do well to search for anything he has said on the web and read it.
The guy is a smart cookie with the experience and numbers to back up what he says.
I posted the 1 scenario I know about. 1/10 i I ant enough to make me jump on the TF bandwagon. Unless someone has dyno numbers to back up their claims. Kim
j par
Well-hung Member
I swear you just said the same exact thing you already said...lol... While flow benches and Dinos our tools they're not micrometers... Not everybody's going to have the same one with same results..
Make it easy on yourself and just copy this post and paste it every other day...
And YR has name drop two names in two post...
.....
j par
Well-hung Member
I'm on this bandwagon as well I don't have any hate for trick flow heads whatsoever or am trying to knock them..
When I see someone at the drag strip meet them talk to them watch them take passes with their car.. They put 5K into getting these setup and don't gain 1/10...
I need something better to hold on to then people arguing about flow numbers for my money will ever go out...
PRH
Well-Known Member
As anyone who’s been on Moparts through the years knows, I have no problem posting flow numbers.
I’ve probably posted more of them there than anyone.
And, I’d have posted TF190 numbers here if I had them.
But, if you’re looking at buying a set of these heads, and basing that decision on flow numbers...... there’s already enough info out there to make that decision(either yes or no).
One set from the manufacturer, another set that backs those numbers up.
I’ve probably posted more of them there than anyone.
And, I’d have posted TF190 numbers here if I had them.
But, if you’re looking at buying a set of these heads, and basing that decision on flow numbers...... there’s already enough info out there to make that decision(either yes or no).
One set from the manufacturer, another set that backs those numbers up.
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lead69
hopeless car junkie
So here's where I think some people miss out. I agree with you the cnc speedmasters flow well and make power and those who switch from one cnc ported head to another cnc ported head and are expecting some sort of voodoo magic get a little upset when they do not get it. But the other side is by the time you pay for the speedmasters bare and load them with good parts there really is no savings,and in fact cost more in most cases. That's where I am coming from,apples to apples the trickflow is a more complete better quality head with more support and a much better warranty. I am not a bandwagon guy I just use the best quality part for the money depending on the desired power level and performance.If somebody wants a 500 hp plus engine and is starting from scratch they get a complete quality package and warranty with the trickflow heads.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Hey..not bad, a site veteran now. Lol
PRH
Well-Known Member
They’re about 2g’s(in other words, cheaper than prepped/bowl blended RPM’s with a spring upgrade).
Where did the other 3g’s go?
Happens a lot.
Even hand ported vs cnc ported.
In the case of small Mopar, especially when both heads are working with the pinch area for the non-offset rocker.
If you’ve already got a well sorted out combo with decent heads, it’s not always easy finding that next 50hp.
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lead69
hopeless car junkie
5k is misleading since he changed a bunch of stuff,he don't have 5k in the heads. Now if he had just changed the heads we would have an apples to apples comparison but even then it would not change the fact that the QUALITY of the trickflow heads is not matched by any other out of the box heads,that fact will not change.
Thaaaank Yr i could pull his name out of my hat for nothing.
j par
Well-hung Member
I can see where if a guy's expecting these big numbers out of these new heads that he would want a bigger cam and a little bit bigger carburetor to accommodate...
Definitely going down the line if you're going to do this you better do that...
I bet he spent every dime of 5K to get those heads on there.. head, valve cover, header, intak gaskets bolts (hopefully he had the correct rockers) of course everything has to be checked out by a machine shop$$, and like me has to make sure the correct Springs are installed...
If someone came out with a better head the fact could change...
if there was no internet I could come over with my cheap Speedmaster heads slap them on the table and we would look at them like perfection... I see not one thing wrong with these to not call them great except for the guru's running around in our heads... (Pun wasn't intended but it worked fine..)
Don't you have a set of trick flow heads? And if I'm not mistaken aren't these the ones that YR quote- "had his nose pickers on?.." lol..
PRH
Well-Known Member
This is the same reason why the TF BB Mopar heads are so popular.
It’s really not that they are superior in making power to their true rival counter parts....... it’s that in order to have the rival head be prepped/ported to equal the power output, and be outfitted with equivalent componentry, you’ll have way way more money in the other heads.
One of the best features/selling points of the TF heads is the level of quality you get for the price.
In the BB world, they really can’t be touched for the money.
I’m sure it’s going to play out the same way for the SB heads.
They aren’t the right choice for every application, but......If you’re building something where heads like the TF190’s would be a suitable choice....... I don’t see how you could go wrong........ even if the ootb flow numbers were only like 285.
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