Anyone flowbench the trickflow 190 heads yet???

Wyrmrider · Oct 19, 2019

Comparing the same head on different benches gives you no additional information
You have to compare different heads on the same bench and adjust for conditions.
One thing about velocity is when the intake valve is closing you want to maintain as much flow as possible for as long as possible.
Here low lift flow and velocity is important
Many hold the intake open too far for too long then slam it down
They stall the flow
just saying

MOPAROFFICIAL · Oct 19, 2019

mderoy340 said:
Engine builders need to make a living. The equipment, testing, and knowledge is an investment on their part. You want to play you got to pay if you're upgrading areas beyond your expertise. I have Brian's RHS heads on my car and picked up .4 from my home ported Js with no other changes. Car would even run quicker with the correct cam which is going to happen soon.

To a closed chamber head?
There's that .4

lead69 · Oct 19, 2019

j par said:
I can see where if a guy's expecting these big numbers out of these new heads that he would want a bigger cam and a little bit bigger carburetor to accommodate...
Definitely going down the line if you're going to do this you better do that...
I bet he spent every dime of 5K to get those heads on there.. head, valve cover, header, intak gaskets bolts (hopefully he had the correct rockers) of course everything has to be checked out by a machine shop$$, and like me has to make sure the correct Springs are installed...
If someone came out with a better head the fact could change...
if there was no internet I could come over with my cheap Speedmaster heads slap them on the table and we would look at them like perfection... I see not one thing wrong with these to not call them great except for the guru's running around in our heads... (Pun wasn't intended but it worked fine..)
Don't you have a set of trick flow heads? And if I'm not mistaken aren't these the ones that YR quote- "had his nose pickers on?.." lol..

Yes and yes and I am a trickflow fan boy for the right application lol.I know your heads look good but what do the guides measure?,how is the seat runout?,what are the spring specs?,are you going to rely on shims to locate the springs and not wear into the spring pads?,not being a smart *** Im serious,these are all good questions that I like to know/figure out.Now I don't need super high quality on all my builds,I have a built a ton of low buck stuff and the speedmaster heads have a place.But on an engine like you and I have I would want the above questions at least addressed and make a decision as to if close is good enough. If Rich said he has close to 5k in the refresh he does but he also mentioned the carb and cam and he don't run cheap stuff. Seriously,come on by in December when YR is here and bring the heads and have a bench race session, we are going to be doing some tuning on my car.

j par · Oct 19, 2019

lead69 said:
Yes and yes and I am a trickflow fan boy for the right application lol.I know your heads look good but what do the guides measure?,how is the seat runout?,what are the spring specs?,are you going to rely on shims to locate the springs and not wear into the spring pads?,not being a smart *** Im serious,these are all good questions that I like to know/figure out.Now I don't need super high quality on all my builds,I have a built a ton of low buck stuff and the speedmaster heads have a place.But on an engine like you and I have I would want the above questions at least addressed and make a decision as to if close is good enough. If Rich said he has close to 5k in the refresh he does but he also mentioned the carb and cam and he don't run cheap stuff. Seriously,come on by in December when YR is here and bring the heads and have a bench race session, we are going to be doing some tuning on my car.

YR has your heads!?.. :realcrazy:

...lol...

..

j par · Oct 19, 2019

lead69 said:
Yes and yes and I am a trickflow fan boy for the right application lol.I know your heads look good but what do the guides measure?,how is the seat runout?,what are the spring specs?,are you going to rely on shims to locate the springs and not wear into the spring pads?,not being a smart *** Im serious,these are all good questions that I like to know/figure out.Now I don't need super high quality on all my builds,I have a built a ton of low buck stuff and the speedmaster heads have a place.But on an engine like you and I have I would want the above questions at least addressed and make a decision as to if close is good enough. If Rich said he has close to 5k in the refresh he does but he also mentioned the carb and cam and he don't run cheap stuff. Seriously,come on by in December when YR is here and bring the heads and have a bench race session, we are going to be doing some tuning on my car.

Really I got to put all those clearance questions back on you... I've never even seen the trick flow heads (I should have)..
I have a set of Speedmaster heads as we all know and the only thing I know (fact) about them is they are aluminum... And until you have your heads taken apart and measured unless you already have? That's what you know about yours (factually speaking)...
and Everybody's Talkin like buy the trick flow heads and slide them out of the box right onto your block.. they're comparing that price to having speedmasters serviced and gone through..
Go ahead and run down your price comparison for me real quick please..
Speedmaster fully loaded CNC heads can by had sent to the door for $1271...
(This is where I would like to interject 70aarcuda timeslips...)

Brian Hafliger · Oct 19, 2019

oldkimmer said:
This is how I feel about the guys in the know. Not all ppl are on FB. It’s the same as posting a for sale ad with no pics. Their either to lazy or don’t give a dam about helping others out but their paying customers. Now that I’ve said that let the flaming begin Kim

Ok, so....the biggest reason I haven't posted flow #'s is because I feel they would be misleading. I have tested 4 different TF heads in the last 2 months, and on my bench they exceed TF's #'s by a fair amount. I even calibrated my bench to make sure what I was getting for info was correct.
To be fair, they have met my goals every time so far, and I don't have to hand port as much as I used to which I love!
I'm not trying to be secretive, it's just that I feel if I posted better #'s than TF has, some people may think by bolting them on over an already good set of heads will net them more power, which could be a big mistake and I don't want to do that.
If I wanted to sell more, and that's all I'm about, I would post more often, trying to lure people to my business.
I would ask that if someone wants to post flow #'s, they should also then supply dyno #'s and build combo so a correct assessment can be made. I have posted flow#'s, just not on here. Partially for what I said earlier, and partially because I get tired of being accused that I'm only here to sell. I have been asked to pay to advertise on here and Moparts, and have declined mostly because I think sharing idea's is best done in thread form, not fancy advertising.
But I don't post as much anymore, so...guess I just linger cause I'm still a mopar guy.

The trickflow heads flow well, they make power, but like everything else when it comes to engines...the combo trumps everything else!

To the OP, if you need flow numbers, Trickflow has them on their site. I have found them to be more than accurate.
Brian

yellow rose · Oct 19, 2019

j par said:
I swear you just said the same exact thing you already said...lol... While flow benches and Dinos our tools they're not micrometers... Not everybody's going to have the same one with same results..
Make it easy on yourself and just copy this post and paste it every other day...
And YR has name drop two names in two post... .....

No I didn't. CudaFever could remember Larry Meaux so I posted it up.

That's not name dropping. That's answering a question.

j par · Oct 19, 2019

ou812 said:
Ok, so....the biggest reason I haven't posted flow #'s is because I feel they would be misleading. I have tested 4 different TF heads in the last 2 months, and on my bench they exceed TF's #'s by a fair amount. I even calibrated my bench to make sure what I was getting for info was correct.
To be fair, they have met my goals every time so far, and I don't have to hand port as much as I used to which I love!
I'm not trying to be secretive, it's just that I feel if I posted better #'s than TF has, some people may think by bolting them on over an already good set of heads will net them more power, which could be a big mistake and I don't want to do that.
If I wanted to sell more, and that's all I'm about, I would post more often, trying to lure people to my business.
I would ask that if someone wants to post flow #'s, they should also then supply dyno #'s and build combo so a correct assessment can be made. I have posted flow#'s, just not on here. Partially for what I said earlier, and partially because I get tired of being accused that I'm only here to sell. I have been asked to pay to advertise on here and Moparts, and have declined mostly because I think sharing idea's is best done in thread form, not fancy advertising.
But I don't post as much anymore, so...guess I just linger cause I'm still a mopar guy.

The trickflow heads flow well, they make power, but like everything else when it comes to engines...the combo trumps everything else!

To the OP, if you need flow numbers, Trickflow has them on their site. I have found them to be more than accurate.
Brian

BAZINGA...

PRH · Oct 19, 2019

I have a set of Speedmaster heads as we all know and the only thing I know (fact) about them is they are aluminum...

I have very little doubt you couldn’t bolt those heads right on and they would run fine, up to the rpm limit of the springs.

If the seal situation on yours is the same as the ones I had here, it will use oil and likely smoke in a short amount of time.

MOPAROFFICIAL · Oct 19, 2019

What a shocker

j par · Oct 19, 2019

PRH said:
I have very little doubt you could bolt those heads right on and they would run fine, up to the rpm limit of the springs.

If the seal situation on yours is the same as the ones I had here, it will use oil and likely smoke in a short amount of time.

yes and I'm saying this for the masses as you well know I'm going to at least take these apart and try and have things checked out if not check things out myself some way or another. And yes have definitely taking this seal discussion too heart. It will be one of the things that you pointed and I'll definitely be checking on. Cheap and easy while I'm in there..
Thank you!..

MOPAROFFICIAL · Oct 19, 2019

What ever next set of AM heads I buy...I'm going mill off the brand name. Talk about retardation.

MOPAROFFICIAL · Oct 19, 2019

j par said:
yes and I'm saying this for the masses as you well know I'm going to at least take these apart and try and have things checked out if not check things out myself some way or another. And yes have definitely taking this seal discussion too heart. It will be one of the things that you pointed and I'll definitely be checking on. Cheap and easy while I'm in there..
Thank you!..

Just take the springs off and do a little finger mic wiggle to check the guide clearance n run'em. yee haw

j par · Oct 19, 2019

For bench racing purposes--- (RPM limit of Springs)
I think I have my shift light set for something like 58 and my high limiter at I think 64....

PRH · Oct 19, 2019

I have tested 4 different TF heads in the last 2 months, and on my bench they exceed TF's #'s by a fair amount.

You said you’ve also had the CNC SM heads on your bench.

How much difference between the two on your bench?

j par · Oct 19, 2019

MOPAROFFICIAL said:
What ever next set of AM heads I buy...I'm going mill off the brand name. Talk about retardation.

one of the best things I like about my speedmasters is they have no script name on them... That way I can have Jpar written on the front of them.... :thumbsup:

...

j par · Oct 19, 2019

PRH said:
You said you’ve also had the CNC SM heads on your bench.

How much difference between the two on your bench?

take note you guys that get the disagree button all the time this is how you get an agree..

mderoy340 · Oct 19, 2019

MOPAROFFICIAL said:
To a closed chamber head?
There's that .4

Yes the closed chamber helps. Open 66cc to closed 63cc, less timing and .040 quench. Bottom line is they make good power in my application.

j par · Oct 19, 2019

lead69 said:
Seriously,come on by in December when YR is here and bring the heads and have a bench race session, we are going to be doing some tuning on my car.

If it's a clear day I'll drive the car there with the heads.. only one problem...
I'LL ACTUALLY SHOW!!....

lead69 · Oct 19, 2019

j par said:
Really I got to put all those clearance questions back on you... I've never even seen the trick flow heads (I should have)..
I have a set of Speedmaster heads as we all know and the only thing I know (fact) about them is they are aluminum... And until you have your heads taken apart and measured unless you already have? That's what you know about yours (factually speaking)...
and Everybody's Talkin like buy the trick flow heads and slide them out of the box right onto your block.. they're comparing that price to having speedmasters serviced and gone through..
Go ahead and run down your price comparison for me real quick please..
Speedmaster fully loaded CNC heads can by had sent to the door for $1271...
(This is where I would like to interject 70aarcuda timeslips...)

Dam man,you are exhausting lol,I don't know anybody that bolts on heads without checking them,the difference is having them pass inspection and having top notch parts. There are two ends to specs,as an example there are some valve guides with crappy material and or installation process that measure good in places and some that measure good all the way through so it all boils down to what level of quality the person is comfortable with.

There are alot of rpm heads bolted on ootb everyday and run fine and yet everyone I have ever had my hands on had tight guides and most had poor valve jobs.What I and others are saying is to get the overall quality of a trickflow head its more money,the quality of every part/workmanship is better on the trickflows from the casting to guides to springs etc.

A cheaper hyundai runs as does a more expensive honda does that mean they are of the same quality of parts,workmanship and longevity?,run your heads and be happy with them but they are not the same as trickflows and ITS OK.

Brian Hafliger · Oct 19, 2019

PRH said:
You said you’ve also had the CNC SM heads on your bench.

How much difference between the two on your bench?

Between the TF and SM head? A BUNCH! In favor of the TF head...but I don't feel that's how they should be picked. If you were to buy both heads complete from their manufacturers, and take them apart...you'll quickly see the TF heads are much better for the money.
Hand ported, the SM heads can make real good power as well, but after all the extra work, will probably cost as much or more than the TF heads that you can buy and bolt on asap.

Only thing I haven't done yet is re work some TF heads...I'm sure someone will want us to, but so far we've made 532HP with pump gas and hyd. roller cam in a "streetable" combo with power accessories and low stall converter app. Still using a dual plane intake as well.
We might be doing a more robust build here shortly, single plane intake, large solid FT cam and even maybe do some work to the heads in search of 600HP on pump gas. I think it'll make 580 no problem, but that extra 20 will be fun to hunt for.

j par · Oct 19, 2019

MOPAROFFICIAL said:
What ever next set of AM heads I buy...I'm going mill off the brand name. Talk about retardation.

...

MOPAROFFICIAL · Oct 19, 2019

j par said:
View attachment 1715410733 ...

Like in school, if you dont have the Jordan's or the this or that.. who cares, do they serve their purpose, yes.
If I were rich and bored ..I'd buy out the maker of the best AM heads out there and change the name to "****" or "DiCK" so that everyone would then have to brag about how much they love their "**** HeADs" or "DicK hEaDS"... lmao Engrave a set of tits on the ends. Call'em Ritz heads.
To not further degrade this thread I will offer to the OP to just assume the numbers are 5-8cfm high and go with that. If I were in the market for a set of heads ..I would probably be buying the trickflow heads before they stop making them. Jk The eddy and copies are plentiful and great too, just not 190cc intake port..

rumblefish360 · Oct 19, 2019

Everyone should have a certain amount of respect given as a courtesy and then from there, that person themselves will adjust your vision on what they should get and/or deserve.

Member OU812, (Brian) as well as PRH & RAMM builds engines for a living. I would give him as well as a few other professional engine builders here enough lee-way to think of them as correct and honest in there findings as accurate as they found them.

Flow benches are a tool best used in a before and after situation. Just like a dyno.

Your immediate response is rude and insulting or only to those that build and port then show results but it is also discrediting them without any of real knowledge of who there are or what they have done and proved or disproven.

By governing yourself in this manor, you dilute the board with trashy comments that in reality only hurt yourself and make yourself look bad as a disgruntled adolescent lashing out. It makes the board look bad and the general population look bad via being guilty by association.

A sure way to destroy a good thing.

In all honesty, this board as of late has gotten catty and ridiculous with the amount of destroyed thread by usless comments that insult, lie about others, bull dog persistent postings of “I’m right, your wrong” followed by cursing out, lies about, insinuations, etc.... rinse and repeat 30 times more....

j par said:
can you please compiled a list of people that I don't know that I'm supposed to have respect for.

pittsburghracer · Oct 19, 2019

Ok let’s see I Jpar will give me hell again or hit the disagree button. I stopped at the TrickFlow tent and for the first time had a chance to touch and fondle a TrickFlow small block head. I talked to a rep for 30 minutes took a few pictures and asked about the intake and when it will be out. They as others are having foundry issues getting work done. Intake should be at the Sema show. I asked why Summit wasn’t there and he said they had a scheduling issue. I told him I wanted to pick up a 10% off coupon and he gave me one. They are very pleased with the Mopar market and their big block head is their number 3 seller. Everything I saw on the small block head I liked. I wish it would have had one intake and one exhaust valve out so I could have fingered the short turn some.