UCA Bushings don't fit?

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Will Gant

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I recently had a shop press in new Moog UCA bushings (K408, non-offset) for my '69 Dart with front drums. Now that I have gone to put them in, both control arms don't fit in between the mounting ears. Did I buy the wrong bushings, or have the ears shifted with the old bushings? Could I bend the ears out with a hammer to get the new bushings to fit, or should I try getting the Moog offset bushings. I have attached a picture of the worse fitting arm, the other one goes into the bracket but doesn't line up well enough for both bolts to go through. Thanks in advance.

UCA1 copy.jpg
 
Those are way off.

It's not unusual to have to spread or pinch the UCA mounting tabs a little to get them to fit right when you install new UCA bushings. The mounting tabs do flex, so some adjustment can be necessary. But that bushing doesn't look right, it's hanging way out on the outside of the UCA and it looks like you'd have to move the tabs more than a 1/4", which is more than what's normal.

There have been several members that have had issues with new Moog bushings lately, seems like they either changed something or their quality control has slipped even further. I haven't been impressed with their quality on most of their parts for some time now.

As for the offset bushings, I would never install standard bushings on a car I intended to run with radial tires. I would always use the offset bushings if I was keeping the stock UCA's. The standard bushings just don't allow for enough positive caster. But before you go and order offset bushings, I'd be taking a close look at your current bushings, UCA's, and UCA mounting tabs to figure out what's going on. Compare that UCA and the mounting tab width to the other side, take a good look at the bushings, and make sure that the shop didn't damage that UCA. Otherwise you could just be throwing more money at a bad part.
 
The shop likely caused this. You can't press the bushings in using the other side to press against.
 
A little hard to really tell from the pic, but sure seems the bushing is wider than the space between the ears. Any measurement of the overall bushings as to the ear space?

It should always be a tight fit when aligned front to rear and a little bumping on the Bj end of the arm with a rubber mallet should always be required after a rebush. Reposition front to rear may be required, push them in together equally. Knowing how the bushings were installed is important as well as I have seen More than a few that tweaked the arm to distort it due to a bad method of the bushing replacement.
 
More likely than not this is from improper bushing installation. All you can do now is spread the ears and hope the front can be aligned properly.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
More likely than not this is from improper bushing installation. All you can do now is spread the ears and hope the front can be aligned properly.
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If the bushings were installed improperly the last thing he needs to do is screw up the mounts to match.

What he needs to do is investigate, figure out which part is actually causing the issue, and fix it. That way he won’t have to “hope” it can be aligned.
 
Or over think it like your doing now.
72bluNblu said:
If the bushings were installed improperly the last thing he needs to do is screw up the mounts to match.

What he needs to do is investigate, figure out which part is actually causing the issue, and fix it. That way he won’t have to “hope” it can be aligned.
Click to expand...
 
1969383S said:
A little hard to really tell from the pic, but sure seems the bushing is wider than the space between the ears. Any measurement of the overall bushings as to the ear space?

It should always be a tight fit when aligned front to rear and a little bumping on the Bj end of the arm with a rubber mallet should always be required after a rebush. Reposition front to rear may be required, push them in together equally. Knowing how the bushings were installed is important as well as I have seen More than a few that tweaked the arm to distort it due to a bad method of the bushing replacement.
Click to expand...

I won't be able to get to the car until Friday, so no measurements until then. One of the old bushings was really bad and it spun freely inside of the control arm. The guy said he filled up the spot that was causing it to spin with weld and then he sanded and/or ground it down to make it circular. I never saw how bad it really or how he actually installed the bushing. I'm thinking that the other side might just need to be hit with a mallet because I can almost fit it.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
Or over think it like your doing now.
Click to expand...

some old guy with a hammer probably started this whole mess. Someone should take some time to think about it before something really gets screwed up.

Will Gant said:
I won't be able to get to the car until Friday, so no measurements until then. One of the old bushings was really bad and it spun freely inside of the control arm. The guy said he filled up the spot that was causing it to spin with weld and then he sanded and/or ground it down to make it circular. I never saw how bad it really or how he actually installed the bushing. I'm thinking that the other side might just need to be hit with a mallet because I can almost fit it.
Click to expand...

Bushing spinning in the control arm? Sounds more like the control arm is totaled and the fix didn’t work.

Like I said, better figure out what’s actually going on before you start hitting stuff with a big hammer. Screw up those mounts for a busted, screwed up UCA and they won’t work for crap later.
 
Will Gant said:
I won't be able to get to the car until Friday, so no measurements until then. One of the old bushings was really bad and it spun freely inside of the control arm. The guy said he filled up the spot that was causing it to spin with weld and then he sanded and/or ground it down to make it circular. I never saw how bad it really or how he actually installed the bushing. I'm thinking that the other side might just need to be hit with a mallet because I can almost fit it.
Click to expand...

That is surely suspect to an issue. Good Arms are easily found to replace them, I had to get one as the UBJ was welded at some point and ripped it apart with a long leverage bar before noticing the weld. No issue with the bushing area but! I suggest making a simple measure across either side to see the difference. Tight is good IMO. You may be able to salvage it but is it worth that? I replaced my welded BJ arm prior to new bushings very cheaply!
 
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I always do them with my press by Each side. I made some jigs to make it easy. I dislike the threaded rod way of doing it. Plus it is easier to get the aux sleeve installed on the trailing bushing that way for big brake cars if equipped. I suggest all cars have that extra sleeve on the trailing bushing today as no one runs 9” drums anymore! As shown in the red circle in the attached pic.

FDEC6557-C8E3-4BEC-BEFC-9C33FBFC5D51.jpeg
 
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1969383S said:
That is surely suspect to an issue. Good Arms are easily found to replace them, I had to get one as the UBJ was welded at some point and ripped it apart with a long leverage bar before noticing the weld. No issue with the bushing area but! I suggest making a simple measure across either side to see the difference. Tight is good IMO. You may be able to salvage it but is it worth that? I replaced my welded BJ arm prior to new bushings very cheaply!
Click to expand...

I agree that I should've just bought new arms to begin with. I could've bought a new set of control arms with good bushings for what I paid him to put the new bushings and ball joints in. If the control arm does end up being bad, should I try to get at least some of my money back from the guy, I've never really had a mechanic break my parts before. Also, do you know if I can unscrew and reuse the new ball joints that were installed in the control arm? (I did make sure that he knew to thread them, not press them)
 
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72bluNblu said:
some old guy with a hammer probably started this whole mess. Someone should take some time to think about it before something really gets screwed up.



Bushing spinning in the control arm? Sounds more like the control arm is totaled and the fix didn’t work.

Like I said, better figure out what’s actually going on before you start hitting stuff with a big hammer. Screw up those mounts for a busted, screwed up UCA and they won’t work for crap later.
Click to expand...

Definitely not just going to go in with a hammer and hope for the best, thanks for the advice!
 
Do you know if your original bushings included the little end caps? I don't know if 69 model is supposed to have those or not. I know if you picked them off the arms would fit the chassis clips.
The piece of tubing inside the bushing would butt up against the oval bolt slot. The end caps change the bite but change the spacing also. You might look closely at the chassis clips and see where the original bite was.
You might find it interesting to learn... When Moogs offset bushings first came onto the market, they did not include end caps. Today we find custom made caps with offset to match that bushing in the box.
 
Pull them out and get new ones . There is something very wrong here and you don't want to go spreading anything in your front end to make it fit !
 
RedFish said:
Do you know if your original bushings included the little end caps? I don't know if 69 model is supposed to have those or not. I know if you picked them off the arms would fit the chassis clips.
The piece of tubing inside the bushing would butt up against the oval bolt slot. The end caps change the bite but change the spacing also. You might look closely at the chassis clips and see where the original bite was.
You might find it interesting to learn... When Moogs offset bushings first came onto the market, they did not include end caps. Today we find custom made caps with offset to match that bushing in the box.
Click to expand...

I can't remember if they had end caps or not. When I get home on Friday I'll look to see if my old ones have them. I'm not sure how much end caps would help because with the end caps, the other UCA wouldn't fit.
 
If you need to spread the brackets, use a length of 1/2" threaded rod and a couple nuts, not a BFH.
 
1969383S said:
I always do them with my press by Each side. I made some jigs to make it easy. I dislike the threaded rod way of doing it. Plus it is easier to get the aux sleeve installed on the trailing bushing that way for big brake cars if equipped. I suggest all cars have that extra sleeve on the trailing bushing today as no one runs 9” drums anymore! As shown in the red circle in the attached pic.

View attachment 1715419280
Click to expand...
I have 9 inch brakes on both my A bodies
 
There's only two things wrong with 9" drums ;
The first is
the spindles break off as soon as you put more than skinny 13" tires on them and stuff her into a corner. And it will do it with a slanty just as quick as with a V8. And when it happens, you will be very sad, cuz the wheel keeps on going, until it hits something or runs out of energy. But on it's way out, it could take out some nearly irreplaceable sheet metal.
If this happens to you, I got a box of spare spindles I might be persuaded to part with
The second is that with skinny 13s, the car don't stop worth spit.

The problem is that tiny outside wheel bearing, that is barely the size of a wheelbarrow bearing. Mine have always broken right inboard of that bearing, and ziiing goes the wheel and everything crashes down, and the car comes to a screeching halt; fastest stop the car ever made, and I never even touched the pedal.
I have never had this happen with any other non-9" drum, A-body, including when smashing into a curb hard enough to destroy a wheel..
 
AJ/FormS said:
There's only two things wrong with 9" drums ;
The first is
the spindles break off as soon as you put more than skinny 13" tires on them and stuff her into a corner. And it will do it with a slanty just as quick as with a V8. And when it happens, you will be very sad, cuz the wheel keeps on going, until it hits something or runs out of energy. But on it's way out, it could take out some nearly irreplaceable sheet metal.
If this happens to you, I got a box of spare spindles I might be persuaded to part with
The second is that with skinny 13s, the car don't stop worth spit.

The problem is that tiny outside wheel bearing, that is barely the size of a wheelbarrow bearing. Mine have always broken right inboard of that bearing, and ziiing goes the wheel and everything crashes down, and the car comes to a screeching halt; fastest stop the car ever made, and I never even touched the pedal.
I have never had this happen with any other non-9" drum, A-body, including when smashing into a curb hard enough to destroy a wheel..
Click to expand...

Is this a problem with the 10 inch drums too? My understanding was that factory v8s got the 10 inch and slants got the 9 inch.
 
I've never in my life seen a broken spindle on anything that wasn't done in an accident. Not one.
 
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