Something In my #5 Cylinder?

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Not sure I'm really giving up any power with the timing locked out. This procharger starts making boost at 3,000 RPM. I leave the line at 3,000 RPM. It's been 6.42 @ 107 MPH in the 1/8. The car has no weight taken out and full interior, weighs 3,600 with me in it. I'm making decent power I think.
yeah, you are making more than "decent power".......
My NA 367 Barracuda went 93 and I was thinking it was making decent power. Your decent is a good 250hp more decent than mine, lol. And your ET matches your mph pretty close.
Congrats on a great combo
 
Have you read 67Dart273s rebuild of his Allen machine? I’m going to assume you probably already have, but it looks like some good information. Starting to rebuild the Allen distributor machine


Yeah, I did find that, but my machine is newer than that, and from what I've heard, much more electrically complicated than the earlier stuff.

I do know I hope to document what it takes to get my machine up and running, because there is so little info on them.

I do know several guys using them. Rocky Rotella, the magazine writer has one and uses it all the time. In fact, I contacted him and he was the one who hooked me up with the operating manual.

There is a guy on speedtalk.com with one and he hooked me up with what Allen calls the "test cards" which are really hard to find. I only had one and needed all 5 test cards. He was gracious enough to loan his out to a guy he didn't know so I could have them duplicated. So if someone reads this and needs any or all of the test cards, contact me and I'll hook you up with the company that made mine for me.

Like I say, I can't wait to get this up and running.
 
Not sure I'm really giving up any power with the timing locked out. This procharger starts making boost at 3,000 RPM. I leave the line at 3,000 RPM. It's been 6.42 @ 107 MPH in the 1/8. The car has no weight taken out and full interior, weighs 3,600 with me in it. I'm making decent power I think.


Wallace says you are making 685 HP. That's great power, but I think you have some you are giving up? Yeah. But will it be enough to upgrade to a grid...IDK. Enough to upgrade to something you can change timing with...yeah. Enough to justify an upgrade to EFI...IDK that either. I'd have to see some prices and your spark plugs and see what they look like.
 
wow, i feel for you…..new engine and now this trouble. Regarding the ignition retard: i think for a blow trough application there´s nothing better than a super Sniper 1250....controls fuel, ignition, fans, two step, rev limiter….unbeatable variability for the price in my opinion. Something to think about during winter ;-)

Michael
 
This may not apply to the OPs situation but I have to wonder about the idea that because I launch at 3000 rpms I donthave to worry about the timing at 2000.
The engine may be at 3000 on the line but once you launch it will drop some and have to climb back to the 3000. So the timing below 3000 really does count even if it only momentary. .... a 4 speed is even worse.
 
Whatever it is that you may do, do it one step at a time. Get a new short block, get it running. Then start experimenting with ignition and fuel. If it’s just a drag car - I don’t think you’d really care or see much improvement with more ignition control. You stomp the pedal, 20ish degrees ignition timing and 11.5:1 ish afr and that’s it. As long as it starts and the idle attitude is ok. But I’d be shooting for 1.5- 2 degrees of ignition retard per 1 psi of boost. And cut back boost to 6-8 psi. Then experiment with each pass, check plugs, make adjustments, repeat. Add boost, add timing slowly. All the gadgets listed in the reply’s above are great and I use them too - but they really just make it simpler and faster to tune. And they also give you better driveability and power between idle-wot. It sounds like you live at idle and at wot - not in between. A quality afr gauge is a must. Data logging is super helpful, as well.
 
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View attachment 1715420051 This is what it looks like. Can't wait to make it work.

Jesus as much as I like it all I see I a dinosaur. MSD's 6AL-2 programmable makes that thing a relic and I've been promoting the 6AL-2 programmable since 2010. There are many others out there. In fact if you are not utilizing a programmable ignition NOW then you ARE giving up power and efficiency. Oddly enough if the OP of this thread had one and knew how to use it (which is so easy) this thread wouldn't exist. J.Rob
 
Wow. Hadn't considered that. But a real possibility.

You can't see enough of the bore though to see the damage that happens to the bore when the rings butt.

But that's a very real possibility.

You didn't consider that? It's the first thing I though without the pics. Here's what happened--the rings butted from excessive heat ie. pre-ignition not detontation < those are two diff things. The ring gaps weren't set large enough and OP had a tune that was not in the safe zone. End of story. Blew the top off the piston and smashed the electrode. It didn't happen on DW or you would have noticed the miss then. It happened very recently most likely. Get a boost referenced timing/fuel system and dial it in , in small careful steps. J.Rob
 
You didn't consider that? It's the first thing I though without the pics. Here's what happened--the rings butted from excessive heat ie. pre-ignition not detontation < those are two diff things. The ring gaps weren't set large enough and OP had a tune that was not in the safe zone. End of story. Blew the top off the piston and smashed the electrode. It didn't happen on DW or you would have noticed the miss then. It happened very recently most likely. Get a boost referenced timing/fuel system and dial it in , in small careful steps. J.Rob


It's hard to see. Usually you see bore scratching when the rings butt. And I think I said that before he posted the pictures. I think.
 
Jesus as much as I like it all I see I a dinosaur. MSD's 6AL-2 programmable makes that thing a relic and I've been promoting the 6AL-2 programmable since 2010. There are many others out there. In fact if you are not utilizing a programmable ignition NOW then you ARE giving up power and efficiency. Oddly enough if the OP of this thread had one and knew how to use it (which is so easy) this thread wouldn't exist. J.Rob
HI I'M THE OP. I'm a younger guy and learning boost. Are you calling me a dinosaur? I don't understand why you seem pissed at me in your post. I've never looked into a 6AL-2 but I will now.
 
HI I'M THE OP. I'm a younger guy and learning boost. Are you calling me a dinosaur? I don't understand why you seem pissed at me in your post. I've never looked into a 6AL-2 but I will now.


Seriously, for boost I wouldn't use a 6 box from any brand.

Why you ask? Because you ain't no different than the rest of us. Pretty soon you'll be jacking up the boost and now you are buying another system and spending money you don't need to twice.

This is one of the places where more is better. I'd get a 7AL3 box and use that and get the grid later if you can't or don't want to spend all that cash now.

BTDT when I switched to the magneto from my battery fired stuff. The guy doing my machine work at the time was dead set on using a mag. This was a 14:1 alcohol injected W2 engine. On the dyno you could see the engine losing power above 6000. So I wanted the mag, and the guy said you'll loose power. It takes 20 HP just to drive the mag (how he pulled that out of his *** IDK because the FACT is it takes less that 1 HP to drive the mag...I've even see pin WJ make that silly claim) and all you need is an alternator. Early A body, with a belt drive fuel pump and front mounted fuel cell so it was a nightmare to get the alternator mounted. Took the engine back out and another day on the dyno. Guess what?? Didn't do ****. And, we had to gap the plugs at .020 to get it to turn 8000 anyway.

So I bought the mag. Everything else the same. Back on the dyno. Again. When it lit off, you could tell it wasn't the same. Not even close. It sounded differently. First pull and it was 20 HP better. And it was pig rich because the weak, battery fired ignition couldn't fire the cylinders at the correct a/f ratios.

By the end of the day, I was up 35 HP with a real safe tune up and the engine would run to 8500.

Moral of the story is: buy your ignition upgrade once, or at least buy a system that will let you upgrade with out buying every piece new. Otherwise you just keep spending and spending.
 
I have to tell you that I have personally seen a bunch of problems created by the programable boxes. I have seen two 7’s go bad right out of the gate and two others in two different cars flake out and both ended up with engine damage. That being said it is more expensive and you are leaving power on the table in the beginning, but I like the idea of starting out, learning engines and power adders with a simple box. Takes a bunch of variables out of the question during your learning curve. When you are comfortable with the motor and running a power adder you can upgrade to a more sophisticated box and pursue the power left on the table that lives near the edge.
 
Also, you end up with a spare box that you can throw in the trailer, which could get you through a weekend if your programmable dies and the grid works with all the legacy boxes
 
Also, you end up with a spare box that you can throw in the trailer, which could get you through a weekend if your programmable dies and the grid works with all the legacy boxes
Rhett, I agree completely. I know I might be leaving a little power on the table by running 23* locked but as I've mentioned..... I'm basically as fast as I can go with my current roll bar.

To answer an earlier questions. This car gets driven on the street all the time. 1,000 miles at drag week and weekly street driving all other times of the year. But I have no complaints about how it drives on the street with 23* locked out. I pretty much drive like a grandma until the right time and place then it's WOT. Not much in between.
 
Rhett, I agree completely. I know I might be leaving a little power on the table by running 23* locked but as I've mentioned..... I'm basically as fast as I can go with my current roll bar.

To answer an earlier questions. This car gets driven on the street all the time. 1,000 miles at drag week and weekly street driving all other times of the year. But I have no complaints about how it drives on the street with 23* locked out. I pretty much drive like a grandma until the right time and place then it's WOT. Not much in between.

exactly. You can’t go any faster anyways. So why try and sell you something? Fix the short block then mess with other things. No point in an expensive ignition system right now. I’d spend that money on an AFR gauge.

one suggestion - relying on water/meth can cause problems. There have been blow ups. For whatever reason.
 
Rhett, I agree completely. I know I might be leaving a little power on the table by running 23* locked but as I've mentioned..... I'm basically as fast as I can go with my current roll bar.

To answer an earlier questions. This car gets driven on the street all the time. 1,000 miles at drag week and weekly street driving all other times of the year. But I have no complaints about how it drives on the street with 23* locked out. I pretty much drive like a grandma until the right time and place then it's WOT. Not much in between.


Eventually though you'll get a cage, right? So that should change your thinking in terms of value and use now and in the future.

If you do street driving with locked out timing you are giving up a ton.

As I've said before, ALL ignition boxed retard worth RPM. Every one of them. Some as much as 2 degrees!!!!!!

So think about that for a minute.

You set your timing at 23 degrees at a 1000 RPM idle. We will use a 1 degree/1000 RPM retard. At your 3000 RPM where boost starts you'll only have 20 degrees. At 5000 you'll only have 18 degrees of timing.

You'll never see this with a timing light because the strobe doesn't react quick enough to catch it, but it's real.

If you don't account for that, you are just making your tuning harder because the plug sees the retarded timing but the timing light doesn't. And if your not good at reading plugs, you'll never see it on the plugs yourself, even with a clean cutoff read.

Just things you should consider. I realize you are not considering power at the moment due to the roll bar issue. But the day will come when you can look for power. If you buy pieces that are upgradable you can buy the basic box and oil now and upgrade later. And start developing your tune up and plug reading skills.

BTW, things like being able to pull timing out at the hit and drop your 60 times like no body's business. Then ramp it back in and make it run out the back door like a freight train.

Just things to think about.
 
exactly. You can’t go any faster anyways. So why try and sell you something? Fix the short block then mess with other things. No point in an expensive ignition system right now. I’d spend that money on an AFR gauge.

one suggestion - relying on water/meth can cause problems. There have been blow ups. For whatever reason.
Yep, by the way I already have an AFR gauge.
 
Yep, by the way I already have an AFR gauge.


That's a good thing. Now as you learn to read your spark plugs you can verify the A/F readings.

Like any other measuring device of its kind, it can fool you if you aren't careful.

As long as the plugs are following the O2 sensor you'll be getting good info.
 
inexpensive distributor advance limiting device: a 383 distributor!
set your initial timing as high as you like. as rpm increases,advance decreases. it rotates the opposite
direction to advance. so as it runs,it pulls timing out.
not sure on shaft length but it's gotta be close.
somebody we know did this the other way around.
 
inexpensive distributor advance limiting device: a 383 distributor!
set your initial timing as high as you like. as rpm increases,advance decreases. it rotates the opposite
direction to advance. so as it runs,it pulls timing out.
not sure on shaft length but it's gotta be close.
somebody we know did this the other way around.


How do you correlate that retard to boost?
 
The Supercharger helps. It’s boost coincides with rpm


Post 94 was advocating using a CCW rotation distributor to retard timing with RPM but I don't see how you can make that boost related.

It could be I'm just stupid and don't understand what post 94 means. It not like I've never been wrong. Hell, I woke up wrong this morning.
 
Post 94 was advocating using a CCW rotation distributor to retard timing with RPM but I don't see how you can make that boost related.

It could be I'm just stupid and don't understand what post 94 means. It not like I've never been wrong. Hell, I woke up wrong this morning.
not stupid and you are probably correct. it was a tongue in cheek reply. but what if?
we had a fellow that bought a well built 383 short block, put it in his car and said it was "hollow". found out, he had a small block distributor in it. so instead of timing
advancing, it retarded. that got me thinking about this thread and while,that I know of,there is no way to control it,could it work? guess if you had a machine to play
with the distributor, it could be possible.so,actually,the reply was more sarcastic BUT,maybe not.
 
There is a funny story. Being the b motor distributor is .300 shorter ....aka the SB is .300 longer than a 383 distributor.
Love the net.
 
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