Submarines Don't (didn't) Fight One Another

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dibbons

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After playing the 80's video game "UP Periscope" today, I found this article interesting:

The True Story of the Only Underwater Submarine Battle Ever

U-864.jpeg
 
So they dumped alot of sand and rock to fill up a ditch underwater, but did nothing at all to clean up the mess.How is that considered clean up?
 
After playing the 80's video game "UP Periscope" today, I found this article interesting:

The True Story of the Only Underwater Submarine Battle Ever

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Dibbons, read Blindman’s bluff.

Read WW2 submarine exploits.

Not only have submarines killed each other, boarded each other, run into the screw of an enemy submarine, hunted each other, tapped into underwater cables in foreign water, etc.

They have shot down aircraft, Tomahawk-cruise missiled foreign countries.

They have tracked terrorists on the terrorists cell phone and shot missiles at them guided by Navy Seals. They have hunted surface ships HUNDREDS of kills.

Submarines were used/attempted before the world wars.

German subs left hundreds of gallons of mercury in their hulls, polluting Scandinavian seas.

They instead of saying they never had combat-ask a submariner or double check your sources.
 
Dibbons, read Blindman’s bluff.

Read WW2 submarine exploits.

Not only have submarines killed each other, boarded each other, run into the screw of an enemy submarine, hunted each other, tapped into underwater cables in foreign water, etc.

They have shot down aircraft, Tomahawk-cruise missiled foreign countries.

They have tracked terrorists on the terrorists cell phone and shot missiles at them guided by Navy Seals. They have hunted surface ships HUNDREDS of kills.

Submarines were used/attempted before the world wars.

German subs left hundreds of gallons of mercury in their hulls, polluting Scandinavian seas.

They instead of saying they never had combat-ask a submariner or double check your sources.
Well said good Sir and those of us rocking a Eagle Globe and Anchor know the truth. Thanks for the delivery service as well!
 
Well said good Sir and those of us rocking a Eagle Globe and Anchor know the truth. Thanks for the delivery service as well!

HarryCar13.jpg


True. I spent 4 years of my 2nd enlistment in the Navy during the '70s working aboard submarines. It was a lot different than the infantry. Patched up a lot of subs banged up playing chicken with the Russkies. Welding, brazing, fitting new piping aboard the nuke fast attack boats, mainly. Later worked my way into NDT inspecting welds.

The fast attack boats were designed specifically to hunt down and kill other submarines. That was/is their primary mission. Also worked on what remained of our diesel boats at the time, an occasional boomer (ballistic missile sub), the Trieste (bathyscaphe), the Dolphin (deep diving R & D boat) and assorted other craft including a Canadian diesel boat and a British nuke fast attack boat. Spent enough time in nuclear reactor compartments that I probably glow in the dark now.

Best regards and Semper Fi,

Harry
 
I was only aboard one boat in port, a friend came up to see me from NAS Miramar from the sub docks down S San Diego. I wish I could remember the name, I believe it was the last or perhaps one of 2 or 3 diesel fleet boats still in service. This was ?? 71-2-3 don't remember. So we go down there, and there the damn thing is, every hatch and door open that safe to open, and has been so for whatever period they were tied up there. Even so, the damn thing smelled like a mix of sweat, mildew, dirty clothes, diesel, battery acid, "the toilet" and maybe even a little puke. He showed me his (shared) rack above a torpedo. had a 1-MC (the PA system) great big sharp cornered metal box above his head. Not EVEN enough room to turn over hardly, and neither of us were "big" guys. NO THANK YOU and kudoos to the guys who did.

I've read some about WWII and the trouble the U.S. had with torpedoes, and how some suppliers and bigshots damn near torpedoed their own guys and themselves because they were too damn egotistical and stubborn to admit there might be a problem. Who knows how much shorter the war might have been if we had had a few more successes. Even so, subs on all sides scored a tremendous kill tally at the loss of a very high percentage of boats and personnel.
 
We blew up a train in WW2.

The records aren't as clear on the Japanese side to break down like above, but 128 subs in total were lost during WW2

Japanese Submarine Casualties in World War Two (I and RO Boats)

Shows over 15 Japanese subs sunk by American submarines. We lost one submarine to the Japanese sub attack.
Initially, our WW2 torpedoes were not that great, so they had to shoot multiple ‘fish’ to hit the target-they had to hunt and target another submarine to kill it. Often the torpedo would circle around and kill its own crew. About as dependable as our gasoline powered tanks in WW2 as my grandfather told me.

My friend Mr. Green had the enemy (Cold War) drive into and break his screw (he was a nub, cranking at the time) where his boat had to emergency blow to the surface, IN A STEEL TUBE, on the waves, float adrift for days on the Philipeen Sea while they waited for a surface ship to come rescue them. A sub on the surface could make Jesus himself seasick. It would be easier to walk on water.

At 400 feet we drove 18,750 tons ( One Million foot pound rated driveshaft {& we broke 2 on the Maine}) under a class 4 hurricane and took 15 degree roles, on the surface you feel as if you will tip over.

Mr. Green worked weapons QA in the office down the hallway and we would talk about all the different Mopars he owned-70 something years old, smoked a pack a day, tougher than nails. It’s like here, you can meet the best people.

52 boats lost. The Submarine Service represented only 1.6% of all Navy personnel during the war but they accounted for over 55% of all Japanese ships sunk, including one-third of the Imperial Japanese Navy. During World War II, the U.S. Navy’s submarine service suffered the highest casualty percentage of all the American armed forces, losing one in five submariners. Some 16,000 submariners served during the war, of whom 375 officers and 3131 enlisted men were killed.

24 ICBM’s on my first boat. Only two bases we deployed from, and we could reach out and touch anyone on the globe, over and over again, pretty much change all the maps.

USAF Satellite guys are more dangerous, there has been ‘Space Force’ stuff for years.
 
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Back when I was running my Auto Upholtery business 35 years ago, I became friends with an old timer submariner who served in WWII. He used to show me the scar on his shin where he got strafed while on deck by a Jap Zero while “Doing his impression of John Wayne” firing back at the attacking aircraft with his .45

He was just about 5’3” tall and tough as nails.

I used to show him the old photos of the boats my grandfather did the electrical wiring on for WWII and he would tell me his stories.

CF306555-73FB-4035-A8CB-4174675F8A73.jpeg


He once told me about the terror of long hours of sitting on the bottom while depth charges were being dropped all around...and then coming up and sinking the bastards.

He only told me the worst stuff after he had a few too many. He would never talk about it otherwise. His name was Pat DiDonato...but I always called him “Pappy”.

I miss the tough old buzzard.
 
Saw a bumper sticker this week...” there are only two kinds of ships....submarines and targets”.

Early 2000’s I transported sub oxygen scrubbers several times on my flatbed... ran from Kings Bay, GA to Louisville, KY to the outfit that rebuilds them.

Big top secret load... must be securely tarped with none of the crates showing. Then I get to Louisville and they store them outside in the employees parking lot !


Pretty neat how they explained how they scrub the CO2 from those units With activated charcoal while in the sub.


And they explained how they fuel and arm the subs under cover then push them into the open and open all the hatches so the Ruski sattellites can take photos of the boats.

The security going into the sub base was heavy... used dogs to search my interior, mirrors under the truck/ trailer... then you leave and no one even waves to you... no one at the exit gate. I could have stolen a complete sub and no one would have noticed.
 
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I work with a retired Airdale who always talks about how crazy you have to be to go on a sub.

To that I tell him:

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ship_cod5.jpg


You may find this footage of USS Cod (SS-224) in action during the 2nd World War of interest. Towards the end of the war in the Pacific, Cod came to the rescue of a Dutch submarine crew.

The O-19 had run aground on Ladd Reef at low tide. She was making about 16 knots when she hit the reef. The Dutch crew after lightening their boat of mines and torpedoes and pumping fuel overboard was still unable to free her at high tide. The Cod attempted to pull them off the reef as well, but the O-19 was stuck fast. So the Dutch crew had to abandon their sub and after they set scuttling charges and paddled over in inflatable rafts, the Cod finished off the Dutch sub with her 5" (127mm) deck gun and a torpedo to keep it out of enemy hands .

The Netherlands was occupied by neighbouring Germany during the war, however Dutch warships in the Pacific not captured by the Germans continued to fight alongside the Allies. This action happened off the coast of Viet Nam and what is left of the Dutch submarine remains there today. To put this action in context...... At the time the O-19 ran aground, Germany had surrendered a month priour. However, the Dutch continued the fight against Japan in the Pacific. A month later, the atom bombs were dropped on Japan and 2 months following the O-19 having run aground, Japan surrendered and the 2nd World War ended.

Of technical interest...... The O-19 was the first submarine equipped with schnorchel (snorkel) allowing air to be drawn in so diesel engines can be run underwater near surface at periscope depth, batteries recharged and fresh air drawn into the boat. The schnorchel was invented by Dutch engineers in 1930s and in the later years of the war, was copied by the German Navy (Kriegsmarine) and fitted to many of their U-boats. It wasn't until the war was over and America and other countries had an opportunity to examine the German adaptation that our submarines were fitted with schnorchel from the early 1950s until now.

USS Cod rescues Dutch sailors......



Lengthier, more detailed footage of the rescue, but no sound......



More footage from Cod's 7th patrol including the rescue of the Dutch submariners......





The USS Cod survived the war and is now a war memorial berthed on Lake Erie in Cleveland, Ohio. Her diesel engines have been restored and from time to time are started to keep them limbered up.

A tour of USS Cod given to 'Russia Today' TV......



USS COD HOMEPAGE

DBF,

Harry
 
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I was only aboard one boat in port, a friend came up to see me from NAS Miramar from the sub docks down S San Diego. I wish I could remember the name, I believe it was the last or perhaps one of 2 or 3 diesel fleet boats still in service. This was ?? 71-2-3 don't remember. So we go down there, and there the damn thing is, every hatch and door open that safe to open, and has been so for whatever period they were tied up there. Even so, the damn thing smelled like a mix of sweat, mildew, dirty clothes, diesel, battery acid, "the toilet" and maybe even a little puke. He showed me his (shared) rack above a torpedo. had a 1-MC (the PA system) great big sharp cornered metal box above his head. Not EVEN enough room to turn over hardly, and neither of us were "big" guys. NO THANK YOU and kudoos to the guys who did.

I've read some about WWII and the trouble the U.S. had with torpedoes, and how some suppliers and bigshots damn near torpedoed their own guys and themselves because they were too damn egotistical and stubborn to admit there might be a problem. Who knows how much shorter the war might have been if we had had a few more successes. Even so, subs on all sides scored a tremendous kill tally at the loss of a very high percentage of boats and personnel.
Blueback comes to mind Dell. My first two yrs were spint on a YTM at Bangor Naval Ammunition Depot out side of Bremerton Wash. It was also the Polaris reload pier for Polaris sub's.
We did get one conventional Sub in
the Blueback , one of the last operating diesel electric sub's left. Larger then early diesel sub's but still cramped. Had to walk down passage way sideways and yes smell , you could smell a subber for three blocks.
 
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We had 3 submariners at the RADAR shop at Miramar while I was there. Two were enginemen which were assigned to our GCA RADAR unit allegedly to maintain the "prime mover" (truck we didn't have to move the RADAR) and the power generator---neither of which applied at Miramar. So the sub guys got to order and maintain inventory/ parts, run errands, and play pool and drink coffee. One of our chiefs was a sub guy, I forgot what he started out, maybe machinists mate but had converted to ET. he always jabbed at me about constantly working on my RoadRunner.

I can still remember a sub Chief who was a company commander of another company in boot. He was a short guy and this, in San Diego he wore short sleeve khakies. As he walked away from you, he had big ornate "barn door hinges" tattooed on his elbows LOL
 
I think the Barbel and Darter were the last two diesel boats, but they were teardrop hull design.
 
I think the Barbel and Darter were the last two diesel boats, but they were teardrop hull design.

I remember the Blueback from sub pier at San Diego in the late '70s. Diesel boat with a teardrop hull. Not sure which was the last combat capable diesel boat to be decommisioned. The Dolphin was a deep diving R & D boat. Pretty sure she was last diesel boat decommissioned, but Dolphin was always an experimental boat and never put on the line.

My favourite diesel boat was the Gudgeon. She was like an old car that just keeps running as long as she is maintained. And her crew did a great job of keeping the old girl going. Gudgeon was one of the boats built in the early '50s using a great deal of what was learned from the highly advanced Type XXI U-boats surrendered at wars end. Even her shape reminded me of a U-boat and the hair on my neck would stand on end every time I saw her.

Gudgeon served our Navy from '52 till '83 when she was transferred to the Turkish Navy, who were our allies in those days. She was renamed by the Turks and served them until 2004 when she was decommissioned and tied up at the Turkish Naval Station in Istanbul as a museum ship. 52 years of continuous service in both navies. Gudgeon is the sub directly behind me in the photo I put up on post #8 of this thread.

Here is a photo of Gudgeon. Very strong resemblance to Type XXI U-boat. This is an early photo, likely from the '50s as she has her hull number on side of conning tower. In the '70s, our subs' hull numbers were painted over for security reasons same as during the 2nd World War.

USS Gudgeon......

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U-3008 under US flag in 1946 (note shape of hull and bow planes pivoted into superstructure near bow when running on surface)......

German_submarine_U_3008.jpg


Best regards,

Harry
 
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Harry,

You might be right with the Blueback, she decommed in 1990 and Darter and Barbel were 1989. When I was up in subschool we had an ET in class that had just come from the Darter (circa 1987). He had some interesting stories about their underways and keeping the boat going! Never really considered the Dolphin since she did research and carried no weapons. She's a tourist boat here in San Diego along with a russian diesel Foxtrot.

Spent many a year working on the boats at Point Loma. In a cube now, but kinda miss my connex box down there and watching the sun come up over Coronado!

Tom
 
The amount "of Navy" that used to be in and around San Diego and up the coast to Long Beach was amazing. And a lot more in San Francisco
 
The amount "of Navy" that used to be in and around San Diego and up the coast to Long Beach was amazing. And a lot more in San Francisco
Went to San D Eggo a while back. Wasn't the same ( maybe because I was sober ) 50 yrs makes a difference.
 
I spent some time aboard an LPD and then was stationed aboard the Dixon (sub tender) from early '76 through the end of '79. Went out on the Guitarro and for a short while, the George Washington (boomer). Mostly lived aboard the tender and worked aboard the subs that came into the sub pier for maintenance, repairs and SHIPALTs, though.

Went into the reserves a couple years following and was sent back to do my annual 2-week ACDUTRAs aboard Dixon.

25 years ago, took my wife on a cruise. We flew in to San Diego, rented a car and spend several days there before boarding our cruise ship.

She enjoyed Old Town. I took her the following day to the Cabrillo National Monument and the old lighthouse overlooking Point Loma. On the way back, we stopped at the old cemetery (Ft. Rosecrans) on the hill overlooking what had once been the sub pier 500 ft. below.

It was surreal. The subs and the tenders were all gone. I felt like a ghost up there looking down on what had once been a busy naval base with 2 tenders and a dozen subs tied up. The sounds of men working, the smell of welding, fresh paint and diesel fuel...... All gone. There was only the sound of the wind whistling through the white crosses row on row.

We drove by MCRD on the way back and I pointed out a few things I recalled from boot camp (yes, I was a grunt before I enlisted in the Navy). It was eerily different, as well. The quonset huts we lived in during boot camp in the '60s were long gone and had been replaced with modern barracks buildings.

Spent more time in Old Town and then boarded our ship. Made a stop in Frisco and showed my wife around. I remember visiting the Golden Gate Bridge. First time I had seen it from above. Had only seen it from aboard ship passing under priour to that.

Then we continued our trip to Vancouver and debarked there. Whilst waiting to leave the ship and go through Canadian customs, I noticed a family next to us playing cards whilst waiting their turn and they were speaking German. My Mom's folks came to America from the region of Elsass which is on the border between France and Germany. Changes hands every other war. Mom told me they just wanted to be Alsatians but in the mid-1800s some of our family grew tired of the never ending wars and came to America.

My grandfather had taught me some German as a small child, so I greeted them and my wife and I had a very interesting conversation with them. It was a lot easier once we knew they spoke English.

They lived in Canada. The husband had served aboard U-99 (Kretchmer's boat) and they were taken prisoner when their U-boat was sunk in the Atlantic in 1940. He was 18 years of age when they were sent to a P.O.W. camp in Canada for the remainder of the war. The crew were released and sent back to Germany in 1947. There, he met his wife who worked for the Red Cross. There was nothing left for them in Germany, so they immigrated to Canada in 1959. Became Canadian citizens and raised their kids there. As you may imagine, we had an interesting conversation about submarines and other topics.

My wife and I had a nice visit to Vancouver and then we flew back to Texas.

Best regards,

Harry
 
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