Indy 360-1 vs TFS VS W2

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I agree, the Trick Flow OOTB would make a better street/ strip head for the OP's 10 sec goal.
a max effort Indy 245 would not make for a good street head, but more for a maximum build strip head. maximum horsepower
The W2 ? well how much money do you have...……
 
fishmens67 said:
I agree, the Trick Flow OOTB would make a better street/ strip head for the OP's 10 sec goal.
a max effort Indy 245 would not make for a good street head, but more for a maximum build strip head. maximum horsepower
The W2 ? well how much money do you have...……
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The 245’s are very nice BUT if you get a leaker from Indy you married it. And trust me I’ve heard some nightmare stories.
 
The machinist I use built a 420ish small block with a ritter block, big solid roller and otb victor heads. On the dyno it made around 650 which seems like a good number but when you look at the heads and the work involved it was a bit shy of what you would expect.
 
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lead69 said:
The machinist I use built a 420ish small block with a ritter block, big solid roller and otb victor heads. On the dyno it made 630 which seems like a good number but when you look at the heads and the work involved it was a bit shy of what you would expect.
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Wow that’s way shy of what I would think and that’s dyno horsepower. Sorry but there’s something is wrong with that combo somewhere.
 
I would like to see someone do a build with some careful porting on a set of trickflows and a .700 lift solid roller and see what it makes.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Wow that’s way shy of what I would think and that’s dyno horsepower. Sorry but there’s something is wrong with that combo somewhere.
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I didn't want to put out bad info so I corrected the post above, the engine was in the mid 600s on hp and it was a pretty tame build considering the parts used. It was originally slated to make 800hp but one thing led to another and it was detuned considerably.
I think he was just not happy with the overall project between the amount of work on the ritter block and the geometry on the heads and the final hp.
 
lead69 said:
I didn't want to put out bad info so I corrected the post above, the engine was in the mid 600s on hp and it was a pretty tame build considering the parts used. It was originally slated to make 800hp but one thing led to another and it was detuned considerably.
I think he was just not happy with the overall project between the amount of work on the ritter block and the geometry on the heads and the final hp.
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How much $ to ‘work’ the Ritter block?
How much time?
 
greymouser7 said:
So a virgin set of opened chambered, bare, W2’s, with headers, and intake manifold is worth how much?
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I have access to an uncut set of bare Econo heads for $600 but passed because the cost or rockers and headers. I wouldn't pay more than $1300 max for that and it would depend on whose headers and intake.

I've got a set of mopar iron w2 rockers now, so I may not pass on the next set. But I hear it is getting tougher to find the long valves now too.
 
greymouser7 said:
So a virgin set of opened chambered, bare, W2’s, with headers, and intake manifold is worth how much?
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W2 what? There are a LOT of different part numbers. Econo? Race? Which ones? The headers and intake are nice, but the valve gear is more important and more valuable. Do you have any of that?
 
gzig5 said:
I have access to an uncut set of bare Econo heads for $600 but passed because the cost or rockers and headers. I wouldn't pay more than $1300 max for that and it would depend on whose headers and intake.

I've got a set of mopar iron w2 rockers now, so I may not pass on the next set. But I hear it is getting tougher to find the long valves now too.
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You can get valves anywhere. That's not even hard.

The big deal is rockers.

An intake is an intake. You can find them. I have 2.

This is why the W2 never went anywhere. The GM guys will spend money on **** and the Chrysler guys won't.

You can use conventional headers if they are big enough on the W2 head. That's what I'm doing.
 
yellow rose said:
You can get valves anywhere. That's not even hard.

The big deal is rockers.

An intake is an intake. You can find them. I have 2.

This is why the W2 never went anywhere. The GM guys will spend money on **** and the Chrysler guys won't.

You can use conventional headers if they are big enough on the W2 head. That's what I'm doing.
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The GM guys pay 60 cents on the dollar for the same crap the the Mopar guys would love to have but won't come until they've made every Chevy and Ford version first. What are you talking about? Mopar zealots pay way more than those other mouth breathers to put their cars together.
 
gzig5 said:
The GM guys pay 60 cents on the dollar for the same crap the the Mopar guys would love to have but won't come until they've made every Chevy and Ford version first. What are you talking about? Mopar zealots pay way more than those other mouth breathers to put their cars together.
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Anytime you have the option of getting your stuff set up to take Chevy stuff do it. Example if you order an ATI damper get the Chevy pattern for pulleys so you have different size options at cheaper prices. The valves I use in my Edelbrock heads are Chevy valves. Think outside the box.
 
gzig5 said:
The GM guys pay 60 cents on the dollar for the same crap the the Mopar guys would love to have but won't come until they've made every Chevy and Ford version first. What are you talking about? Mopar zealots pay way more than those other mouth breathers to put their cars together.
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Really? In 1985 what head did GM have to compete with the W2? NOTHING.

I watched a guy do everything he could to bolt the W2 head to a SBC. He was using my heads.

What rockers did the SBC have to compete with the W2? NOTHING. There were some shaft rockers for SBC's but nothing spectacular. When they became available, they sold like hot cakes.

Do a little research. It is the same cost to do a SBM as a SBC when you build them the same.

So don't give me that crap. I lived through it. That's why it chaps my *** when everybody and their mother says they had 8500 RPM small block mopars with W2 heads. I was running from Seattle to Woodburn and made a trip to Boise and I know of two other guys with W2 stuff. That was it.

You should at least know what you are talking about.
 
greymouser7 said:
So a virgin set of opened chambered, bare, W2’s, with headers, and intake manifold is worth how much?
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The Econo heads can not be purchased new. There really only worth about as much as someone would pay for new units, if they were available.

Headers, who’s? As long as you realize that no one will pay more for them when they can get them new and have no return issues.

Intake, which one do you have?
Intakes are inexpensive most of the time. Ding dongs on E-gag sometimes want more for there used up greasy garbage than the exact same one still available to be sold new at Summit or Jegs.
 
greymouser7 said:
How much $ to ‘work’ the Ritter block?
How much time?
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More than he initially thought, I won't name drop but he was in contact with a couple guys out east and they were working through issues together. The biggest thing is no machinist wants to spend that much effort with those kind of parts and have it make that hp. As I said the plans for the build changed and the customer wanted what they wanted.
 
yellow rose said:
Really? In 1985 what head did GM have to compete with the W2? NOTHING.

I watched a guy do everything he could to bolt the W2 head to a SBC. He was using my heads.

What rockers did the SBC have to compete with the W2? NOTHING. There were some shaft rockers for SBC's but nothing spectacular. When they became available, they sold like hot cakes.

Do a little research. It is the same cost to do a SBM as a SBC when you build them the same.

So don't give me that crap. I lived through it. That's why it chaps my *** when everybody and their mother says they had 8500 RPM small block mopars with W2 heads. I was running from Seattle to Woodburn and made a trip to Boise and I know of two other guys with W2 stuff. That was it.

You should at least know what you are talking about.
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What does any of that have to do with your accusation that Mopar guys won't spend money?

"This is why the W2 never went anywhere. The GM guys will spend money on **** and the Chrysler guys won't."
 
So the indy 360-1 is basically and alu version of the cast iron MPP W2 right? ..................
 
gzig5 said:
What does any of that have to do with your accusation that Mopar guys won't spend money?

"This is why the W2 never went anywhere. The GM guys will spend money on **** and the Chrysler guys won't."
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It's called reality. If you are buying used junk or scrounging junk yards then yes, the GM stuff is cheaper.

If you have nothing the cost for either is the same. Within a few hundred dollars. Maybe.

The difference is back when the Chevy guys had no heads with an offset intake rocker and Chrysler did, the Chrysler guys cried their eyes out about needing expensive rockers.

The question then becomes, what did Chevy have that was comparable? Nothing. So how do you say it's more expensive when you are comparing a junk assed stud mounted rocker to a shaft mounted rocker? You can't.

And that's my point. When the Chrysler guys had the opportunity to buy things that the Chevy guys could only dream of, they cried about the cost.

And that's why you still see guys building 400 plus inch small blocks with heads that are grossly undersized. It's not a instant issue. Years ago if these parts sold you'd still have them today.

My local Direct Connection dealer was running Super Gas. He had access to anything you could possibly want. And yet, he used a 383 B engine because he had a dozen of them, he could run a 9.50 flat out with it and he was throttle stop racing.

When I pointed out to him he could build a W2/W5 stoker engine and run even quicker. He said why. Chrylser guys won't buy that ****. Why spend MY money on something 99.9% of my customers won't.

And there you have it. He knew it. I knew it. And now you know it.
 
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