ET'S with ported J/or other iron heads SB

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i didn't read this whole thread but the stock NHRA classes have many 340 A body's in the 10's using stock iron 2" x and 1.88" valve j heads.Having said that, these are purpose prepped drag cars but I think too many guys think the sun sets on heads and cams.
 
The bottom line is, there are a lot of people who get offended at the idea that someone is just out-working them.
Stockers don’t go fast by accident.
You have to work on it, and be willing to swap out some parts if you want to keep advancing the performance.

When they don’t like what they hear, then they just start adding stipulations to justify why it’s faster than their car.
Oh it doesn’t run on pump gas, oh they can drive it on the street, oh the converter is expensive.
No ****...... everything is a compromise.

If you want to drive to the track on pump gas and run a cheap converter, and not have a cam that’s hard on parts..... that’s fine.
It’s going to go slower.

Others who have placed a higher priority on better ET’s have made their choices....... and that’s why they run like they run.


Exactly.
Well that's where we all get into the no s*** Sherlock...
It's exactly is 318 said people leave out a big part of the conversation when they talk about "somebody else's car" doing a certain time.. and that's another piece of the puzzle it's never their car... Not the guy from Michigan that started us down this road, not you, or 318 - "somebody else's car"... like 318 said we talked about what our cars do today from bumper to bumper no matter what the results are and we live with that and I'm proud of How Far We've came...
 
Honestly, just telling the "one part" and leave the whole story out makes me sketchy. I say my combo from bumper to bumper. It is what it is. If someone likes it, great. IF not, ok. Truth be told, I could go down to Jabs house and build a low 11 second car within 24 hrs. He has 4.88's, stocker cam, 8" converter (4800 it think), and a 73 Duster with cage. All I would need to bring is the proper valve springs. His 750 DP would get it there. Just say'n, this isn't uncovering ancient secrets.
First run, low 11's 67 Belvedere with built 440 4spd and 4.30 gear with slicks and a worn out chassis.
The car was all over the track. one pass because underware was completely full. lol 1979 Spokane Raceway.
 
My car was as fast as your car, weighed more, and had a smaller motor with heads that had less work done to them......
but it was a BB, so it didn’t have stock iron SB heads.

11.26@119 @3670lbs with a 383 and unported 906’s(400 cast crank, stock rods, heavy TRW pistons, non-file fit rings).
No fresh air, no electric fuel pump, battery still up front, full interior, heater, wipers, etc.
But it did have an aftermarket intake, high lift cam, big carb.

As good as that might have been....... the same combo as a well sorted out Stocker would dip into the 10’s........ without the aftermarket intake, big carb, or high lift cam.
 
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The bottom line is, there are a lot of people who get offended at the idea that someone is just out-working them.
Stockers don’t go fast by accident.
You have to work on it, and be willing to swap out some parts if you want to keep advancing the performance.

When they don’t like what they hear, then they just start adding stipulations to justify why it’s faster than their car.
Oh it doesn’t run on pump gas, oh they can drive it on the street, oh the converter is expensive.
No ****...... everything is a compromise.

If you want to drive to the track on pump gas and run a cheap converter, and not have a cam that’s hard on parts..... that’s fine.
It’s going to go slower.

Others who have placed a higher priority on better ET’s have made their choices....... and that’s why they run like they run.


Exactly.
Not arguing one bit. And, I love stockers, and I love your posts. But I think the point is when somebody says "buddies car runs 10.8's with .430 lift" or whatever, why just tell the lift? Why not only tell the converter? "buddy runs 10.8's with 5200 stall". Or just say "my buddies stocker runs 10.8's". Why only the lift? That tells me that there is a "wow" factor trying to be implemented of somebody has undiscovered speed secrets. That truck in the video is a junkyard 360 (what, 200 dollar motor with stocker cam and springs?) pulling a truck at 12.4's. His good motor pulled it 11.3's. In a Duster he'd be high 10's for sure. Like Paul Harvey used to say... "now, the rest of the story"... LOL
 
i didn't read this whole thread but the stock NHRA classes have many 340 A body's in the 10's using stock iron 2" x and 1.88" valve j heads..
about 10 - 12 years ago i watched a Demon (3100 lbs i think he said) turn 10.8's. Stocker of course. J heads, TQ, cast intake. Of course, big converter, big duration, big gears. But, lift was stock :) That was about 10 - 12 years ago, they were doing it then.
 
First run, low 11's 67 Belvedere with built 440 4spd and 4.30 gear with slicks and a worn out chassis.
The car was all over the track. one pass because underware was completely full. lol 1979 Spokane Raceway.
great story... except I could have lived without the image of your shorts being filled :D
 
So, if you had all the same specs as a Stocker cam, but had way more lift...... would it go slower?

Way back when my friend was in the very early stages of getting the car sorted out..... we were doing cam swaps.
As a bracket car it had already run the bottom of the 11’s, so we knew the “car” was capable of it.
But the bracket motor was making way more power.
We were probably into the 5th or 6th cam....... none of which proved to be quite what we were after(only one had run 11’s, and that one was a real parts breaker)....... we thought maybe we were barking up the wrong tree with the cams.
So, as a test...... we put in his old UD street/strip solid lifter cam.
.100 more lift and much better ramps.

Car picked up .4 and 5mph.

Yeh...... there was power in a cam.

The thing with the low lift isn’t so much about the lift of the cam...... you have to think about how much can the heads be flowing if you’re only opening the valves that far?
Regardless of the timing events, the lift rule is a restriction....... and the cars would be even quicker and faster if they could run more lift.

For the record...... I can’t imagine a situation where I would choose to run a lift rule cam in something that didn’t require one.
 
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So, if you had all the same specs as a Stocker cam, but had way more lift...... would it go slower?

Way back when my friend was in the very early stages of getting the car sorted out..... we were doing cam swaps.
As a bracket car it had already run the bottom of the 11’s, so we knew the “car” was capable of it.
But the bracket motor was making way more power.
We were probably into the 5th or 6th cam....... none of which proved to be quite what we were after(only one had run 11’s, and that one was a real parts breaker)....... we thought maybe we were barking up the wrong tree with the cams.
So, as a test...... we put in his old UD street/strip solid lifter cam.
.100 more lift and much better ramps.

Car picked up .4 and 5mph.

Yeh...... there was power in a cam.

The thing with the low lift isn’t so much about the lift of the cam...... you have to think about how much can the heads be flowing if you’re only opening the valves that far?
Regardless of the timing events, the lift rule is a restriction....... and the cars would be even quicker and faster if they could run more lift.
See here comes more of the story when you say "WE".. meaning two mechanics at once trying several different cams and all kinds of combinations.. the problem is 95% of the forum is probably like me by myself and maybe my wife to hold a drill... Like 318 probably doing a lot of the work in his driveway by himself... it's like you said the wow factor and all the pieces of the puzzle are not thrown out front.. it's likely back in 2007 when that temporary member asked the question he wasn't looking for someone's friends stock Eliminator stuff likely just what he could do in the garage.... again you guys both probably did all this and your friends garage and was there anybody else helping?.. I'm extremely comfortable with what my car does an extremely comfortable knowing why it does it... For the record...
 
I'm 5 years into this project and on my third cam. Actually on my first cam with its third grind LOL things go slow on a slow budget but I will never be able to be a stock Eliminator and I'm comfortable with that...
 
Now excuse me for a minute I got to get another coat of paint on this motor...
In my garage LOL...
 
I'm 5 years into this project and on my third cam. Actually on my first cam with its third grind LOL things go slow on a slow budget but I will never be able to be a stock Eliminator and I'm comfortable with that...
Honestly, if you forgot the street car and went stocker, you could do it cheaper than what you have now. Maybe not be a class winner, but certainly mid 11's on a 1000 dollar stocker motor is completely realistic. Just add gears and converter. True street cars are much harder to build.
 
Honestly, if you forgot the street car and went stocker, you could do it cheaper than what you have now. Maybe not be a class winner, but certainly mid 11's on a 1000 dollar stocker motor is completely realistic. Just add gears and converter. True street cars are much harder to build.
I ran an automatic for a short time a few summers ago with that pink 318 and that taught me that I don't want another automatic in my car over again if it all possible...
Even though it had the stage 3 transgo and shifted for an automatic like a dream it still was no for Speed and was quite boring to me..
 
And just for the record, J par is right. My work is done in my drive way, with a helping hand from time to time to hold or guide something from any of the three: my wife, son, or Dad. But that doesn't matter at all. Not one bit. Also, I'll say my current car is not the fastest car/A-body I've owned, but past is past, and current is current, so I have no war stories... saving them for when i'm down to only checkers... and spaghetti. :D LOL
 
I ran an automatic for a short time a few summers ago with that pink 318 and that taught me that I don't want another automatic in my car over again if it all possible...
Even though it had the stage 3 transgo and shifted for an automatic like a dream it still was no for Speed and was quite boring to me..
But my point was...…. stocker in the "middle of the pack" in their class are pretty easy to build. Jeremy here on this site was selling stocker cams and converters from his Duster on this site. My friends truck even has different size headers/mis-matched. LOL. And what, a 200 dollar motor that he added stocker cam and springs to? I mean, really, it's not that big of a deal. Fun cars to watch, though.
 
Honestly, just telling the "one part" and leave the whole story out makes me sketchy. I say my combo from bumper to bumper. It is what it is. If someone likes it, great. IF not, ok. Truth be told, I could go down to Jabs house and build a low 11 second car within 24 hrs. He has 4.88's, stocker cam, 8" converter (4800 it think), and a 73 Duster with cage. All I would need to bring is the proper valve springs. His 750 DP would get it there. Just say'n, this isn't uncovering ancient secrets.

Come on down and lets get the Duster together.
Already have the valve springs and have a fresh tq carb from a stocker record holder.
Would like some differant rocker arms tho. Got the mechanical 273 stock rockers at the moment.
 
Come on down and lets get the Duster together.
Already have the valve springs and have a fresh tq carb from a stocker record holder.
Would like some differant rocker arms tho. Got the mechanical 273 stock rockers at the moment.
273 rockers will get the job done.... I head back to work today. Holiday break is over.
 
“We” is just semantics.......
He did most of the cam swap stuff himself.
I came by for the first and second one, then I showed him the stuff I felt needed checking, then he did all the rest of them.
We’ve tried at least a dozen cams in those motors through the years.

The one that went in the 350 is one we had tried in the 400 at some point, and felt like it was a bit too small.
It seemed like it would be about right for the 350, so in it went.
 
There is the other side of:

“You don’t know what you don’t know”,

and that is......

“Once you know...... you know”

My friend can know build as many mid-10 second 400 Pontiac Stocker motors as his heart desires....... without having to do any type of R&D........ because he knows what it takes.
Order the right parts, have the block machining done, have the heads done....... bolt it together and go.
 
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Take a low to mid pack stocker type build.
Put in a “real” cam, good intake and carb...... it’s not going to make less power.
One really important element of the Stocker build is the converter.
And if you’re chasing ET’s...... the ET friendly converter isn’t going to be any good on the street.
Same goes for the gears.

The thing about looking at stockers and there performance, is to take note of all the things they don’t use to get it....... and then look to see if you can apply some of that thought process to your not-a-Stocker.

If it’s a “street” car, that will be seeing some real street duty..... then you just start piling on the compromises........ which results in comparatively poorer performance(for the sum of the parts).
 
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I could elaborate on the car, but I’m not going to.

He’s a regular guy with a regular job.
A mechanic at a dealership.
Started out bracket racing in the early 90’s, decided to morph his bracket car into a Stocker a few years later....... and has been racing in Stock ever since.
When he first started in Stock the car wouldn’t even run the index.
He kept working on it, making changes, learning...... about 10 years later it set the record and became the first GTO Stocker to run in the 10’s.
In 2005 he bought a ratted out Firebird, had the body done and did all the mechanical work himself, and took the motor/trans out of the GTO and put it in the Firebird.
That car has set the record a couple of times.

Other than the body work, the roll bar install, and the engine machine work...... he does all the rest himself.

View attachment 1715446573


Ok, that's 100 times the cool because he's doing it with a stick. I just love that.
 
Take a low to mid pack stocker type build.
Put in a “real” cam, good intake and carb...... it’s not going to make less power.
One really important element of the Stocker build is the converter.
And if you’re chasing ET’s...... the ET friendly converter isn’t going to be any good on the street.
Same goes for the gears.

The thing about looking at stockers and there performance, is to take note of all the things they don’t use to get it....... and then look to see if you can apply some of that thought process to your not-a-Stocker.

If it’s a “street” car, that will be seeing some real street duty..... then you just start piling on the compromises........ which results in comparatively poorer performance(for the sum of the parts).


Or the clutch of its a stick car and like you are saying, gearing is a big deal.
 
The clutch is key....... but even when what he was running for a clutch was clearly not optimum for the car....... it was still pretty quick for what it was.

3650lb GTO, Pontiac 400 Stocker build, 4 speed......11.30’s in F/S...... 20 or so years ago.

That car never had the clutch situation figured out.
That didn’t happen until he was a few years into the Firebird.
 
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