Rhoads Lifters On Solid Lifter Cam - Setting Valve Lash

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enigma57

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Have a lash adjustment question regarding Rhoads lifters when running them on a solid lifter cam. I spoke with Jack at Rhoads and they have a V-Max lifter that can be run on a solid lifter cam. So I ordered a set and they should be here next week.

He said lash adjustments are made using a feeler gauge much like you would with a regular solid lifter. With dry lifter (not pumped up and not having been soaked in oil beforehand) on heel of cam and feeler gauge in place between valve tip and rocker, carefully tighten lash to depress spring loaded plunger in lifter until it 'just' bottoms but does not lift valve off seat. Then tighten poly-lock and proceed to next lifter.

I am thinking that when setting lash, I should 'stack' tolerances. In other words...... Take the recommended hot lash for the solid lifter cam...... Add .002" for initial cold lash setting (iron heads and block)...... Then add the amount I want to use for delaying complete pump-up of the fast bleed down Rhoads lifter. He cautioned not to exceed 0.035" in all and the way I have it figured, I should 'just' be within that parameter...... 0.026" lash for intake and 0.028" for exhaust. Does that sound right to you guys?

Any assistance much appreciated,

Harry
 
The only assistance I can offer is..... why wouldn’t you just use solid lifters?

Just because you “can use” those lifters on a solid lifter cam doesn’t mean it will work just as well.

It might...... it might not.
I’m not really seeing the “up side”.
 
:) Good question. I was going to do that. Was looking at these lifters from Hughes...... A bit pricey, but look to be what I would want in a light weight solid lifter with EDM hole......

Hughes Engines

That said...... I decided to see how Rhoads lifters would work for me in this particular engine.

Why? Think of the Rhoads lifter as 'old school VVT' (variable valve timing)....... Only without computers and all the complexity of today's modern methods of accomplishing the same thing.

Doable if I can work out the lash setting and optimal weight of oil to accomplish what I would like to do.

Bonus...... I can pick up a complete set of Rhoads lifters with the optional oiling groove (an old racers trick) for the price of 4 of the Hughes solids I was looking at. So about 1/4 the price of the light weight EDM solids.

Best regards,

Harry
 
It’s Jacks product so I would follow his instructions if you explained what your trying to accomplish. I have a almost new set of Rhodes lifters sitting on the shelf as I tried them in a magnum engine I put together a few years back. The magnum naturally has a tick to it with the adjustable valve train but the Rhodes lifters make quite a racket. More racket than I want to listen to anyway so I went back to the standard roller lifters.
 
enigma57 said:
Have a lash adjustment question regarding Rhoads lifters when running them on a solid lifter cam. I spoke with Jack at Rhoads and they have a V-Max lifter that can be run on a solid lifter cam. So I ordered a set and they should be here next week.

He said lash adjustments are made using a feeler gauge much like you would with a regular solid lifter. With dry lifter (not pumped up and not having been soaked in oil beforehand) on heel of cam and feeler gauge in place between valve tip and rocker, carefully tighten lash to depress spring loaded plunger in lifter until it 'just' bottoms but does not lift valve off seat. Then tighten poly-lock and proceed to next lifter.

I am thinking that when setting lash, I should 'stack' tolerances. In other words...... Take the recommended hot lash for the solid lifter cam...... Add .002" for initial cold lash setting (iron heads and block)...... Then add the amount I want to use for delaying complete pump-up of the fast bleed down Rhoads lifter. He cautioned not to exceed 0.035" in all and the way I have it figured, I should 'just' be within that parameter...... 0.026" lash for intake and 0.028" for exhaust. Does that sound right to you guys?

Any assistance much appreciated,

Harry
Click to expand...
Running an hydraulic lifter on a solid grind?
That's a new one on me.
Most people want to do just the opposite.
 
send a pic of that oil groove or both for comparison
I have a set of Rhodes for a 440 Ill dig them out
 
Wyrmrider said:
send a pic of that oil groove or both for comparison
I have a set of Rhodes for a 440 Ill dig them out
Click to expand...
This oil groove allows additional oil to get to the face of the lifter and cam lobe? EDM hole allows same but through a different path?
 
enigma57 said:
:) Good question. I was going to do that. Was looking at these lifters from Hughes...... A bit pricey, but look to be what I would want in a light weight solid lifter with EDM hole......

Hughes Engines

That said...... I decided to see how Rhoads lifters would work for me in this particular engine.

Why? Think of the Rhoads lifter as 'old school VVT' (variable valve timing)....... Only without computers and all the complexity of today's modern methods of accomplishing the same thing.

Doable if I can work out the lash setting and optimal weight of oil to accomplish what I would like to do.

Bonus...... I can pick up a complete set of Rhoads lifters with the optional oiling groove (an old racers trick) for the price of 4 of the Hughes solids I was looking at. So about 1/4 the price of the light weight EDM solids.

Best regards,

Harry
Click to expand...


45 bucks each? For ZERO gain? I'd eat a poop sandwich before I ever bought those lifters. That's crazy.
 
It’s an interesting idea....... but I don’t think the effective lash being vastly reduced as the rpm goes up is going to yield positive results....... for the same reasons that running the lash too tight with regular solid lifters doesn’t often work out very well.

With no lash, the clearance ramp starts to become part of the timing events.
Unless the cam is tiny, I’m not at all optimistic about the outcome.

But it’s a fairly basic test.
If it doesn’t work out, just put solid lifters in it.

A set of EDM solids is only about $200+/-
 
It's not zero gain. Those V-Max lifters are supposed to be badass. They allow a reduction in duration up to about 20* up to 4000 RPM. After that, the full duration of the camshaft is allowed. This can allow you to run a larger duration camshaft than you would otherwise choose. Exactly as the OP tried to explain. Variable valve timing, but I'm not too sure about how "old school" it is. I think it's solid technology. It's also controlled by engine RPM and not by oil pressure like a lot of people think. Plus with their superlube option you get two flats ground on each side of the lifters to allow oil to get straight to the cam lobes where they contact the lifters. Rhoads didn't just fall off the turnip truck. They've been around a LONG time and the founder of that company had a long and successful racing career.

Getting back to @enigma57's question. Do not include anything regarding the solid lifter camshaft when making your adjustment. Think of it this way. You depress the lifter plunger with the feeler gauges in place like you are adjusting a solid, but you lightly bottom the plunger out, lock the nut down and slide the feeler gauges out. Basically, you are adjusting the lifter off the BOTTOM of the plunger travel, instead of the top. I am thinking about running some on something myself and I just may, although I will be running a fairly stout hydraulic cam. I think Rhoads lifters can be a good idea in the right application. It's like running several camshaft grinds in one. I've messed with @krazykuda Karl about them in the past, but I like them in the right place.....and they do have a right place.

Instead of dismissing them, yall should read up about them. They are pretty innovative.
 
RustyRatRod said:
It's not zero gain. Those V-Max lifters are supposed to be badass. They allow a reduction in duration up to about 20* up to 4000 RPM. After that, the full duration of the camshaft is allowed. This can allow you to run a larger duration camshaft than you would otherwise choose. Exactly as the OP tried to explain. Variable valve timing, but I'm not too sure about how "old school" it is. I think it's solid technology. It's also controlled by engine RPM and not by oil pressure like a lot of people think. Plus with their superlube option you get two flats ground on each side of the lifters to allow oil to get straight to the cam lobes where they contact the lifters. Rhoads didn't just fall off the turnip truck. They've been around a LONG time and the founder of that company had a long and successful racing career.

Getting back to @enigma57's question. Do not include anything regarding the solid lifter camshaft when making your adjustment. Think of it this way. You depress the lifter plunger with the feeler gauges in place like you are adjusting a solid, but you lightly bottom the plunger out, lock the nut down and slide the feeler gauges out. Basically, you are adjusting the lifter off the BOTTOM of the plunger travel, instead of the top. I am thinking about running some on something myself and I just may, although I will be running a fairly stout hydraulic cam. I think Rhoads lifters can be a good idea in the right application. It's like running several camshaft grinds in one. I've messed with @krazykuda Karl about them in the past, but I like them in the right place.....and they do have a right place.

Instead of dismissing them, yall should read up about them. They are pretty innovative.
Click to expand...



Rusty, are you taking about the Hughes lifter mentioned above, or a Rhodes lifter??
 
RustyRatRod said:
It's not zero gain. Those V-Max lifters are supposed to be badass. They allow a reduction in duration up to about 20* up to 4000 RPM. After that, the full duration of the camshaft is allowed. This can allow you to run a larger duration camshaft than you would otherwise choose. Exactly as the OP tried to explain. Variable valve timing, but I'm not too sure about how "old school" it is. I think it's solid technology. It's also controlled by engine RPM and not by oil pressure like a lot of people think. Plus with their superlube option you get two flats ground on each side of the lifters to allow oil to get straight to the cam lobes where they contact the lifters. Rhoads didn't just fall off the turnip truck. They've been around a LONG time and the founder of that company had a long and successful racing career.

Getting back to @enigma57's question. Do not include anything regarding the solid lifter camshaft when making your adjustment. Think of it this way. You depress the lifter plunger with the feeler gauges in place like you are adjusting a solid, but you lightly bottom the plunger out, lock the nut down and slide the feeler gauges out. Basically, you are adjusting the lifter off the BOTTOM of the plunger travel, instead of the top. I am thinking about running some on something myself and I just may, although I will be running a fairly stout hydraulic cam. I think Rhoads lifters can be a good idea in the right application. It's like running several camshaft grinds in one. I've messed with @krazykuda Karl about them in the past, but I like them in the right place.....and they do have a right place.

Instead of dismissing them, yall should read up about them. They are pretty innovative.
Click to expand...

I've run Rhoades lifters for many decades... They work and are very reliable... I've put over 200,000 k miles on a set with no problems...
 
It will certainly be an interesting experiment........making the cam bigger using the clearance ramps.......and trying to make it smaller at the same time using the Rhoads lifters.

I had hydraulic roller lifters (not Rhoads) on a solid roller street cam once. The lifters were hell to get to quiet down on fire up, and when they did the engine idle was crap.
 
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I run regular type Rhodes on a small roller, increased vacuum from 17hg to 20 idle
more bottom end power, no loss on top end (more power under the curve). They do everything advertised as far as I'm concerned. Example: coming home from town
(hilly area) I was so used to downshifting 4 to 3 on several sections of road (rpms
approx 2200) after Rhodes install car will just pull the grade without downshifting.
The extra noise to me sounds like nice running solid cam. Some may like that or
lope Rhodes may take out at idle depending how big the cam is to start with, Mine
is a Hughes 208/214 @.050 .480/.490.
 
66jim said:
I run regular type Rhodes on a small roller, increased vacuum from 17hg to 20 idle
more bottom end power, no loss on top end (more power under the curve). They do everything advertised as far as I'm concerned. Example: coming home from town
(hilly area) I was so used to downshifting 4 to 3 on several sections of road (rpms
approx 2200) after Rhodes install car will just pull the grade without downshifting.
The extra noise to me sounds like nice running solid cam. Some may like that or
lope Rhodes may take out at idle depending how big the cam is to start with, Mine
is a Hughes 208/214 @.050 .480/.490.
Click to expand...
Pre-Rhoades; you were having torque issues with a 208/214, and a 4-speed? That's odd. How big a grade? How about a lil more info on your combo?
 
mbaird said:
Ran em .... got nuttin but more noise.
Click to expand...

Did you run the Z-Max lifters or the original Rhoads? Two different animals. We're talking about the Z-Max. They are fairly new. Completely adjustable, whereas the original Rhoads lifters were not.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Pre-Rhoades; you were having torque issues with a 208/214, and a 4-speed? That's odd. How big a grade? How about a lil more info on your combo?
Click to expand...
66 Cuda w low milage 88 318 roller , Qjet edlebrock performer, home ported 302 heads, ported 273 ex.manifolds, custom 3 inch single exhaust, A833 close ratio, 8 1/4 w 2.71 gears, 225/50/15 on 15X7 Cordoba wheels. 65mph is about 2500rpm.
Probably would be considered more of a hill(s) than a grade. Still the low end better with the Rhodes than stock still pulls same on top but I don't go beyond 5500. You know the feeling is different when climbing hills or grades and you don"t get that sinking gas peddle feeling. They also are more quite on cold starts, lifter clatter is not noticable after about 2000rpm.
 
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