Diesel engine swaps

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MopaR&D

MopaR&D

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I know this subject has been brought up before but it usually centered around the Cummins 6BT which in my mind is a giant heavy truck engine that doesn't belong in a car (and the 4BT just isn't ballsy enough). I have a few local car buddies who own old-school Mercedes diesels and those things are pretty neat but a tad too small; I have an idea to diesel swap a C-body so I can go on road trips and drive it when I feel like it but not get eaten alive by big-block gas mileage. Anybody familiar with other automotive diesel engines which might be good swap candidates?
 
Part of the issues with this swap is weight and height of the engine. To clear the hood even the 225 was turned on a slant.

diesels are also full of torque but low on horse power so highway gears actually have a purpose. Turbos help on the Horse power side. Without a full frame in a unibody car the diesel puts a lot of strain on the body and turns in corners driving. So if an aluminum diesel can be had (or partial aluminum head is aluminum and block is cast) like in an Isuzu delivery truck. They last forever and sip fuel. Light(er) weight good solid automatic transmission behind it. They are in expensive too. Not sure on the Mercedes Benz engine as diesels. I don’t have much experience with those diesels but they are lower center of gravity to fit under the hood of those cars. BMW had a 6cyl diesel also compact. Just stay away from the old GM 6.2 and 6.5 diesel v8 engines. Very heavy and very low power. The 6.2 crack in the lifter valleys easy. The 6.5 turbos love oil.
Syleng1
 
Just my 2 cents.

If MPG is what you are looking for wouldn't a modern 392 (or the like) electronic FI engine swap be easier and gain the increased MPG over a carb engine.

Diesel in my neck of the woods is the same price as gas and the increased MPG of diesel seem small compared to modern FI engines.
 
How about a vw diesel?
They were put in cars and sold in the US, so should be available
 
My cousin is putting a 6bt into a dart. Its a full tube chassis car though. My other cousin put an old 12v into a fox body mustang. They do fit, they are just really tall, so a hood really isnt an option.

Diesel is the way to go for power honestly. The foxbody running a small turbo, slightly tweaked pump and stock wore out trans ran a 12:30 at 124mph. Look up Coalstang if you are curious. A set of compounds or really big single on a 12v can make close to 1000hp without really changing too much.

A little TDI motor would be really cool! They dont make the most power though. Go for the ALH motors, much simpler and laster pretty much forever.
 
I know its not an A-body, but still for the reference, they do fit in small cars

1988-Mustang-with-a-6BT-Turbo-Diesel-Inline-Six-02-768x768.jpg
 
When the original 413 in this beast finally gives up I plan to throw a 4bt in her. If a 4bt can move a bread truck down the road I’m sure it will do just fine in the wagon.

499E42D5-85DB-42E7-BD75-FEAB256C9D00.jpeg
 
One of the local BOCES auto mechanics teachers put a Mercedes TD in a falcon future (el camino style)

Personally I'd stay away from any of the big engines in an Abody. I'd be looking at a VW diesel, maybe a Mercedes. THe VW swap will make decent power and is a 4 cylinder. I guess the scope for me would be diesels that came in passenger cars.
 
MopaR&D said:
I know this subject has been brought up before but it usually centered around the Cummins 6BT which in my mind is a giant heavy truck engine that doesn't belong in a car (and the 4BT just isn't ballsy enough). I have a few local car buddies who own old-school Mercedes diesels and those things are pretty neat but a tad too small; I have an idea to diesel swap a C-body so I can go on road trips and drive it when I feel like it but not get eaten alive by big-block gas mileage. Anybody familiar with other automotive diesel engines which might be good swap candidates?
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the 4BT isn't ballsy enough? Yeah, the 4BT can cheaply and easily make 600+ hp. factory, they have more torque the a Gen II hemi, at nearly 500 ft lbs. it'll move any car just fine.
 
I like the idea of a C body diesel cruiser, too. If the electronics weren’t such a night mare, my first choice would be a Cummins V8 out of a Nissan Titan XD. Set up with a 518 or 46RH automatic with a towing converter and highway gears it should make a good highway cruiser.
 
Garrett Ellison said:
I like the idea of a C body diesel cruiser, too. If the electronics weren’t such a night mare, my first choice would be a Cummins V8 out of a Nissan Titan XD. Set up with a 518 or 46RH automatic with a towing converter and highway gears it should make a good highway cruiser.
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the electronic wouldnt be as much of an issue as one thinks... the Cummins, as with all their engine, use a stand alone ECM that is seperate from the chassis computer on the vehicle. you'd just have to have the program or find someone with the programs to turn off the parameters inside the Cummins ECM that looks for the feedback from the trans. literally a click of a mouse.
 
dukeboy_318 said:
the electronic wouldnt be as much of an issue as one thinks... the Cummins, as with all their engine, use a stand alone ECM that is seperate from the chassis computer on the vehicle. you'd just have to have the program or find someone with the programs to turn off the parameters inside the Cummins ECM that looks for the feedback from the trans. literally a click of a mouse.
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A 12v cummins is pretty much completely mechanical. Few odds and ends are electric, but they dont require a computer to run. Thats one of the reason people want to swap in 12v vs the 24v cummins.
 
DartVadar said:
A 12v cummins is pretty much completely mechanical. Few odds and ends are electric, but they dont require a computer to run. Thats one of the reason people want to swap in 12v vs the 24v cummins.
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yes I know. I was replying to his comment about using the V170. I worked for Cummins and an aftermarket diesel company for 10+ years. We did tons of swaps in various things. We even 4Bt swapped a Jeep Liberty back in 05.
 
383Scampman said:
First off a monte carlo is a full frame car . C-bodies aren't
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yeah, but the engine bay in a C body is larger than a Monte. That said, a good fabricator can make anything fit if they want to put the effort into it.
 
Weight and reinforcement to the K frame is going to be the greater issue of a retrofit. Not saying it cant be done, but a Cummins 6BT weighs 1100 pounds, a Duramax weighs 835 pounds. My personal choice would be a Navistar/International DT444 out of a school bus. 920 pounds and stand alone electronic/computer control.
 
Back in 1972 a dealer put Nissan diesels in a-bodies . they have only 4 main bearings and were total dogs . the problem with auto diesels is almost all of them are computer controlled and are lightweight design for the European market . Ram and chevy trucks offer lightweight diesels in their 1/2 ton trucks . Ram is having a lot of problems with durability . They just can't take the pounding. I serviced 4bt and 6bt when I worked for Fleetpride .. they'r big, heavy,ugly , dirty and LOUD . No thanks
 
A stock trim big bock mopar with air conditioning and power steering has to tip the scales pretty heavy
 
dukeboy_318 said:
the 4BT isn't ballsy enough? Yeah, the 4BT can cheaply and easily make 600+ hp. factory, they have more torque the a Gen II hemi, at nearly 500 ft lbs. it'll move any car just fine.
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Well I guess I'm wrong about that but they're still incredibly loud, unrefined engines with tons of vibration and a limited RPM range. And they still weigh about as much as a big block if not more.

I'm not against using a more modern diesel out of a car, there are standalone ECUs available for a lot of the electronic controlled diesels from Mercedes.

12v cummins is a truck engine; i'll eventually be putting one in my 1972 D200 but no way i'll put one in a car that's supposed to be a comfy quiet cruiser to eat up the miles. Also don't feel like having to re-engineer the front end to handle the weight of an 1100-lb engine.
 
I don't know what a C body front clip measures at the front K frame mounting points, but a Dodge pickup frame is 38-1/2 inches wide across the rails. I would be looking at the possibility of the front of a Cummins D250 frame section with suspension at this kind of weight and some 16 inch eight lug wheels with the Dodge hubcaps, front and rear. For rear axle choices you could go with a Dana 61 semi floater, 14 bolt GM semi floater, or Chrysler 9-1/4 8 lug (two wheel drive 3/4 ton semi floater from eightees). I’d look for one of the positive retention axles before going with a 9-1/4, unless custom axles and Dana 60 housing ends are in the plan.
 
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Just an FYI, at least up to the mid 80's merceded turbo diesels had NO computer controls. They had mechanical lift pumps, mechanical IP's and a mechanical shutoff.
 
MopaR&D said:
Well I guess I'm wrong about that but they're still incredibly loud, unrefined engines with tons of vibration and a limited RPM range. And they still weigh about as much as a big block if not more.

I'm not against using a more modern diesel out of a car, there are standalone ECUs available for a lot of the electronic controlled diesels from Mercedes.

12v cummins is a truck engine; i'll eventually be putting one in my 1972 D200 but no way i'll put one in a car that's supposed to be a comfy quiet cruiser to eat up the miles. Also don't feel like having to re-engineer the front end to handle the weight of an 1100-lb engine.
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Garrett Ellison said:
I don't know what a C body front clip measures at the front K frame mounting points, but a Dodge pickup frame is 38-1/2 inches wide across the rails. I would be looking at the possibility of the front of a Cummins D250 frame section with suspension at this kind of weight and some 16 inch eight lug wheels with the Dodge hubcaps, front and rear, and a Dana 61 with 3.08 or the like gears.
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The 4BT weighs about the same as a Gen II hemi., roughly 780 pounds. the 6BT does weigh just under 1100. As for vibrations, have you ever driven a vehicle with one? Factory or Swapped? Limited RPM Range? They can rev to 4,000 but with the torque and power, you don't need 8k RPMs to rev too. My truck hit 120 in a 1/4 at 8600 lbs.
 
dukeboy_318 said:
The 4BT weighs about the same as a Gen II hemi., roughly 780 pounds. the 6BT does weigh just under 1100. As for vibrations, have you ever driven a vehicle with one? Factory or Swapped? Limited RPM Range? They can rev to 4,000 but with the torque and power, you don't need 8k RPMs to rev too. My truck hit 120 in a 1/4 at 8600 lbs.
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Interesting, no I have not driven one but I subscribe to Deboss Garage on YouTube, he swapped a 4bt into a 2000s Suburban and after a while it wasn't all that worth it. He said it was noisy and vibrated quite a bit and you could definitely hear it clearly in his in-car videos. This coming from a guy who is currently swapping a Caterpillar engine out of a dump truck into an OBS Ford. Said it got up to 28 mpg though...

Like I said I'll gladly swap a 12v 6bt into my D200 at some point but for a C-cruiser I'd much prefer something quiet with at least 6 cylinders in the 3.0-4.0L range. We do own a 2005 VW Passat with the 2.0L TDI 4-banger and that thing is as loud and shaky as I will tolerate in a passenger car. That particular engine is a tad small to push around a C-body though our Passat weighs about the same as a 4-door A-body.

The early mechanical Mercedes diesels are super easy to swap but don't have much power and can't handle a lot more boost and fuel like bigger truck diesels. It's also really hard to find those in the U.S. in 6-cylinder form, they were almost all 5-cylinders. A friend of mine just got a 1982 Mercedes turbodiesel and even in perfect tune it takes 18+ seconds just to get to 60 mph. And I don't think that car even weighs 2 tons it's the mid-size model (forget the name).
 
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