Need Help!!! Intermediate shaft removal

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cudamike13

cudamike13

cudamike13
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I am trying to run oil pump with long hex rod and drill motor.
I can't get the intermediate shaft to rotate and climb up cam gear for removal.
It seems to be very tight tooth engagement between cam and shaft.
I tried coathanger wire (stiff) bent to fit under gear as I always have, no luck, it won't budge.

Maybe I need a bigger screwdriver as what I have is less than 1/2" wide.

What do you think guys/girls??

This is a MRL 416 stroker. Based on 1970 360.
 
I use one of those big fat Harbor Freight magnets on a telescopic handle and a coat hanger wire LOL to get it started and then just pull it out with the magnet on a stick..
 
Sounds like it is stuck in the bushing.

I have in the past used a large flat blade and made a Hook like grabber bar to go under the gear so as I turn it with a screw driver I can pull up. I also had to turn the crank a bit to I guess “relax” pressure. Chucking the screw driver back and forth will typically loosen it up. Especially if any crud is growing like in a dirty motor. Not sure how old your engine is.

Better screw drivers have a Spot for a wrench too. Sometimes putting a wrench to give more leverage helps break it loose. Hope all my “sometimes” help.
Syleng1
 
I usually just grab it with a pair of long needle nose pliers in the slot, twist and pull. There is almost always some vacuum underneath it when you start to pull, you have to overcome that as well.
 
69DodgeMan said:
I usually just grab it with a pair of long needle nose pliers in the slot, twist and pull. There is almost always some vacuum underneath it when you start to pull, you have to overcome that as well.
Click to expand...
\
BIG SCREWDRIVER/STRONG PULLER.
Don't load the bushing hard w/ that hex rod while pre oiling !
 
Sounds like another bushing installed and never reamed. It may be stuck fast to the bushing. I have already seen them almost half turned in the oil pump from having a High volume pump and a factory non hardened shaft though. Look at it close when you get it out and replace it with a hardened milodon from summit. Make sure you replace the bushing and ream it to size after install the bushing shrinks from press fit or you could have the same problem.

Milodon Oil Pump Driveshafts 21530
 
See if you can get 2 loops/hooks on the gear, and lift on opposite sides, rocking it back and forth. Sometimes, the gear just gets a bit cocked in the bushing and needs to be rocked a bit to get it loose.

Also, try turning the engine backwards a bit (CCW at the crank) to get the pressure off of the gear teeth. This direction of rotation will tend to push the shaft gear up.
 
famous bob said:
BIG SCREWDRIVER/STRONG PULLER.!
Click to expand...



Nothing like a big screwdriver....

Screwdriver.png
 
A piece of flat bar fits and works better than a tapered screwdriver tip. Adjustable wrench for handle.
 
ream or burnish
there are now different styles of bushings from oem
some say you do not have to size\
bullshit check them all
 
Hey guys, I got it out.
All it took was a bigger screwdriver and a wrench on square shaft.
Everything looks ok but I am going to buy a new one.
I pumped oil and took off a valve cover to check oil flow and it looks pretty!
IMG_2583.JPG
 
However, I found out why it was hard to remove.
Where the hex priming rod fits in oil pump, it gets stuck in there! I had to wiggle it loose and then it came right out.
I could put it in and out multiple times without turning pump and it would not stick.
Of course I couldn't wiggle intermediate shaft, that made it so hard to remove.
Has anybody heard of this before?
 
cudamike13 said:
However, I found out why it was hard to remove.
Where the hex priming rod fits in oil pump, it gets stuck in there! I had to wiggle it loose and then it came right out.
I could put it in and out multiple times without turning pump and it would not stick.
Of course I couldn't wiggle intermediate shaft, that made it so hard to remove.
Has anybody heard of this before?
Click to expand...
If the 6 corners of the shaft get slightly worn or compressed down, then they will turn a bit too far in the hex 'socket' of the pump gearshaft before 'catching', and jam in. If it turns harder, then the shaft hex spins in the pump's hex socket.

It is like a bolt with rounded corners or a worn socket; if you torque it hard enough, the socket turns a bit too far on the bolts corners and jams on. (Turn it a bit harder and the socket rounds the bolt corners.)

So inspect the hex on the shaft to see if the corners are a bit rounded. Then get your new shaft and prime the pump the same way and then see if that wants to 'stick' in the pump. If so, then the flats in the hex socket of the pump may be starting to round out, and if so, it may not be long before the new hex starts spinning in the worn pump hex socket.... no more pumping.

Wyrmrider said:
ream or burnish
there are now different styles of bushings from oem
some say you do not have to size\
bullshit check them all
Click to expand...
Used one of the new ones. A test fit of the shaft was too snug so I just gently drove an old shaft in and out of the bushing several times using the old shaft as the burnishing tool. Loosened up nicely after 4-5-6 passes and spun freely. Put some moly cam paste and oil in there on the new shaft and moved on.
 
I want to thank everyone for their help.
I inspected shaft end with hex. There was no evidence of rounding at all.
The pump has a rough spot while turning with my priming tool. It was there at any rpm I tried.
I have ordered a new Milodon shaft and a new Melling HV oil pump.
Better to be out a little money, but know it is right.

My stroker has solid lifters and adj rockers. The rocker shafts are aftermarket look like S.S. and have the notches up and to the left.
Everything I can find says they should be down?

Can anyone elaborate on this?

Thanks cudamike
 
oldkimmer said:
If there aftermarket they could be right. Best to check them though. Kim
Click to expand...
This is an engine that Mike at MRL ran on dyno.
I think they are okay. There is oil on head near pushrods, I have to get bro in law to run pump while I slowly turn motor and watch for oil flow. I know it has pressure because I can feel it in drill as it turns.
If I do decide to remove and check, oil hole on shaft should line up with hole in pedestal for rocker arm. Is that correct?
 
The oil hole in the bottom of the rocker shaft at the 2nd hole from the left has to be large enough to expose enough of the oil hole in the 2nd pedestal from the left on each head) so that is the matter of concern. That oil hole comes up right beside the 2nd from left rocker shaft bolt. (It's obvious if you look.) BUT..... whoever makes the shafts makes the decisions how large that oil hole exposure needs to be. I've seen shafts with the 2nd and 4th holes larger on the bottom that all the rest, and other shafts with all the holes enlarged everywhere (like the pair of brand new MP shafts that I have), and shafts with all the holes smaller (like some PRW's here). So you may or may not find that hole sizing to be any guidance for shaft orientation.

The 8 individual oiling holes for the rockers should be on the bottom. Typically, they closer to straight down, the more like the factory. But I've seen them in various angles. There likely will be a hole towards the inside too, for oil to the pushrod cups.

Got any pix?

PS: Sounds good that you caught the snag in the oil pump... that is certainly suspicious.
 
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nm9stheham said:
The oil hole in the bottom of the rocker shaft at the 2nd hole from the left has to be large enough to expose enough of the oil hole in the 2nd pedestal from the left on each head) so that is the matter of concern. That oil hole comes up right beside the 2nd from left rocker shaft bolt. (It's obvious if you look.) BUT..... whoever makes the shafts makes the decisions how large that oil hole exposure needs to be. I've seen shafts with the 2nd and 4th holes larger on the bottom that all the rest, and other shafts with all the holes enlarged everywhere (like the pair of brand new MP shafts that I have), and shafts with all the holes smaller (like some PRW's here). So you may or may not find that hole sizing to be any guidance.

The 8 individual oiling holes for the rockers should be on the bottom. Typically, they closer to straight down, the more like the factory. But I've seen them in various angles. There likely will be a hole towards the inside too, for oil to the pushrod cups.

Got any pix?

PS: Sounds good that you caught the snag in the oil pump... that is certainly suspicious.
Click to expand...
If you mean pics of shafts, I haven't removed one yet.
My bro in law is going to help me with turning motor by hand while pumping oil.
Yeah, I don't like the way the pump feels as I can move it sideways with priming rod. (part where rod fits into)
 
We rotated motor by hand and ran pump with drill and was able to see very good oil flow !
Now draining my 8 qts of expensive oil into a brand new plastic bucket so I can reuse it. At almost 8 bucks a qt, I can't throw it away.
Next will be to invert motor and remove pan and install new oil pump.
I have motor at number one TDC.
I have my new Torque conv and flexplate, need to get trans and motor married.
Its coming along, I can see it on road pretty soon.
 
Sometimes oil is in the pump drive socket so when you go to pull out the shaft or the hex drive it creates a suction. I needed to prime my motor so I had a long 1/4” drive extension and a hex bit. I tacked welded the bit to the extension knowing the issue with suction and how much it would suck it the bit came off. Worked great until I pulled it out and the hex piece came out of the bit!!!!!!! I got it out be taking a 1/4” drive socket and crushing it just a touch. Tapped it on the hex piece that was still in the pump out it came. Tacked everything together!
 
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