How do i make my mopar a daily driver??

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Hansen said:
Is there any advantage of having a electric fuel pump vs mechanical, and is a electric choke better than a mechanical? Is there any must have parts on a daily driver that you know of?
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Do not add an electric pump. When using an electric fuel pump, efi etc, a different electrical strategy should be used.

Since you are just learning, keep the big projects to a minimum. Just learn to fix what you have.

360 truck engine is going to be the first hurdle.
In stock form, it is similar engine to a '69 318 or 340, but not the same.
First question is what was swapped into your Dart?
The whole engine including intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, carburetor, EGR valve, coolant temperature sensors etc?
or
Was the basic engine installed, and intake, exhaust etc from a '69 Dart bolted on to it? If so, from what engine?
Or are these aftermarket items?

This is real important because the original '83 has a bunch of pollution control systems that need to run correctly or properly disabled.
The original '69 engines only had a couple of emissions items (at least in US/Canada models) which mostly affect idle.
Hansen said:
Thats the funny part, its already set on max recommended timing.. 34 i think
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As Rustyratrod posted, this is a huge part of your current problem.
With hot rods and certain racing cars it was, and sometimes still is, necessary to set timing using the maximum.
Otherwise, timing is always set using the base or initial timing.
1. Engine warmed up, choke off, throttle on slow idle.
2. Vacuum advance hose removed from the distributor. Hose plugged
3. At a specified engine speed, usually between 550 and 700 rpm, set the initial timing to the spec.

I can't be more specific than that without knowing more about the engine and the distributor.
For example the original carburetor from '83 had an idle stop solenoid on it.
If its using a distributor from '69, initial timing was set relatively low.

Once you get it running well, the only thing that I have consistantly had issues with on almost every A-body I've had is the headlights.
The wiring and connections were just OK when using the original headlamps. Almost all newer headlamps (since '73) draw more current. If you will be driving in the dark, its worth making up relayed headlight circuit that takes power directly from the alternator.
Everything else is as basically as reliable or unreliable as most other cars.
 
Get a Chevy for the winter, but if not,then;
1) Clean out the heat crossover passages
2) Make sure the EGR is functioning properly as designed, or not at at all.
3) If your 84 truck had a Holley 2bbl, I recommend to get something else; they require a lot of reworking to be trouble free, over the temperature range you are experiencing.
But if you keep the truck carb;
All the truck systems need to be transferred over to keep it, including;the sparkport,the electrical choke timer mounted on the intake,the heated inlet air system,the charcoal canister, and whatever else it was using, but if a lean-burn, leave that behind..
No matter the carb; install a brand new electric choke element and ensure the choke pull-off is working . If your intake does not have a heated chokewell, I wouldn't use it.
4) Make absolutely sure the Vcan is working. I would throw the truck one away, and get a replacement with as many degrees advance in it that you can find. If your D does not have provision for a Vcan or a working mechanical advance; throw it away.
5) install a 195 stat and flush out the heatercore, make sure your coolant can't freeze up, I hate when that happens. You need more freeze protection than you think; when the cold air gets pulled thru the cold rad by a direct-drive fan, ambient temperature doesn't count anymore.
6) spare parts; ballast resistor, fuel filter, fan belt. And the tools to install same.
7) get a dog to lay on your feet, cuz there is practically zero insulation on the floor,lol. Seal up your firewall openings and make sure the vents also are sealed, and I stuff insulation into mine. It's never gonna get warm in that Mopar; even brand new I had to wear a snowmobile suit in all my As. Not quite so bad in FMJs. Don't even start on my 71 Monaco.
 
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Hansen said:
i have ordered a new mechanical fuel pump that might be the issue.
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Wow! You're already headed out the wrong gate. Carburator just needs some fuel in the bowl. The bowl can be gravity fed and the carb doesn't care. Once the bowl is full the valve shuts. It works just like an old fashioned toilet.
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RustyRatRod said:
I can crank my truck up in weather under 20 degrees with no choke and it pops right off.
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Yup. Not ideal perhaps, but I've started my car down in the 20s - and no choke on that either. Yup, just got to prime it a bit with pumps of the accelerator. IMO a strong ignition helps starting when there's no choke.

Hansen said:
I have a holley street warrior with mechanical choke, and i have a real tough time getting it to idle from cold start.
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I haven't played with the Street Warrior, but in general not impressed with the many of the new Holleys.
Regardless, setting up the hand choke and fast idle is going to take some time and effort.
I'd would try setting choke so its slightly open when fully closed. In other words, set it for the position you want it to run at after starting. Then set the fast idle speed screw on the matching step at whatever it takes to run decent. Might 1200 rpm or as much as 1600 rpm. You'll have to experiment.

I hate electric assisted chokes, but if you want an 'automatic' choke on a non-factory carb, that's what you'll have to use.
 
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Hansen said:
Hello mopar guys!
I have a 360 in my 69 dart it was in an 84 D150 before. What do you think is the most important parts for making it a daily driver/make it more reliable? I was thinking about an EFI system, but which one? is there options to make a carburator just as reliable? I live in norway so i have very rough weather from time to time, from 14 F to 70 F temp weather in the summer..
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The most important parts for a daily are quite honestly your brakes, tires, suspension, and then ignition and fuel systems. Safety is a big deal, and if your daily stops and handles like an average '60's or '70's car it won't last. People drive stupid, you have to be able to stop. If you're not running disks up front already you need them. Radial tires are a must, and it would be better to run a larger diameter rim (17" or 18") because you can get much better performing tires. Yes, BFG T/A's on 15's work, but if you're running a lot of miles you will experience their limitations. Larger torsion bars, better shocks and sway bars are a big consideration as well. You want your car to handle well. It doesn't have to be some full autoX set up, but you want to be at least in the ballpark with more modern cars. If you're wrestling your old car everywhere to compensate for poor handling and stopping you won't enjoy driving it. Some of that may be a little less important in Norway, I don't know how much traffic you have to deal with. Here if you want to hit the freeways on a regular basis you'd better be able to handle and stop pretty well if you want to stay in one piece.

Carburetors can be plenty reliable. I daily drove my '72 Challenger for about 70k miles with an edelbrock 600, and my current daily is my '74 Duster with a Holley 750 double pumper. Once you have a decent tune as far as fuel and ignition are concerned it shouldn't be a big deal. You do have a fairly large, and COLD, temperature range. Warming up the car is essential with a carb, and of course the tune that works best for 14° F will not be the same as the tune that works for 70° F, so you may need to have a "winter" and "summer" tune. Especially for a Holley. But there's no reason you can't run a carb on a daily. I am planning to go EFI at some point on my Duster though. EFI is super convenient, especially in cold weather the starting and warming things up can get annoying. The car will work just fine as long as you warm it up, but it is less convenient. I would run it for awhile with a carb and sort out the tuning first. Once that's done you can decide if you want to go EFI, you'll have a better idea of why you want it and your engine tune will be sorted out so the EFI install should go more smoothly.

383Scampman said:
If you want it more reliable for daily use , leave it alone . My question to you is : why ????? Why do you want to drive a 50 year old car every day ? to be cool or tobe cheap ? Neither option works very well . I drove a 1964 Dodge every day for a while and all I did was repair it . I spent almost every spare moment repairing or maintaining it . Unless EVERYTHING in the Dart is new prepare for repairs weekly AND keep up your membership in the auto club . You'll need it .
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Complete bunch of crap. I've been daily driving a classic non-stop since 2008 now. And honestly I only had a new car for about a 4 year stretch right before that, from 1995-2004 I pretty much drove classics as daily's as well. I drive classics because that's what I like driving. I don't do it to "look cool", I don't care what other people think about it. And I don't do it to "be cheap", as I put plenty of money into my collection of classics and it honestly would be cheaper for me to have one new car instead of a fleet of classics. I just enjoy driving old cars.

I put 70k miles on my Challenger that I started daily driving in '08, and I've put over 20k miles on my Duster since it replaced my Challenger for daily driver duty. My Challenger never left me stranded anywhere. Never. Yeah, I had to fix it a couple times that were inconvenient, but it was never towed home. My Duster has been towed home once, I lost a lash cap and bent a pushrod. I have co-workers with brand new cars that have been towed more than I have in the last 12 years. I drive around 10k miles a year most years, all in stuff older than 1974.

The initial stretch when you start first start driving a classic that hasn't been daily driven can be a little rough, you'll find all the stuff you either thought was ok or didn't think to replace. After a few months you won't need much of anything at all. I don't do maintenance weekly on my Duster, didn't do it on my Challenger either. Heck most of the time I don't do ANYTHING to them between oil changes. I check and tune when I change the oil, which is about every 3-4 months. So even monthly maintenance isn't necessary.

DentalDart said:
I somewhat agree with this. The guys at my orielys know my name. I'm in there all the time. Buying a 50yr old car no knowing the previous maintenance and upkeep done one it means everything needs replaced. My cooling system was trash, bushings trash, brakes barely worked, but she fires up with ease. I'm probably 2500 into parts tools and other odds and ends. Plus the countless hours spent working on it to try and make it as safe and reliable as possible
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Yeah, but you're just starting with your car. That's how it goes for awhile when you first start daily driving a classic that hasn't been a daily driver. After a few months you'll have replaced most everything you needed to deal with, and the maintenance and repairs will slow down.
 
I agree; EFI cars are not bullet-proof, and when certain parts fail or work intermittently, you can pour a lotta money into diagnostics. If you don't understand the EFI system, you can be at the mercy of your dealer, or mechanic.
By contrast, carbs are pretty simple and robust.They may not be perfect..... but almost anybody can master the one under at least one hood. Or at least understand it well enough to keep it running.
 
Hansen said:
What EFI seems to be most popular?
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Sniper has what appears to be the most supportive group..... Super Sniper is nice. It all boils down to what you are really trying to accomplish and what are your "hot spots" with the car and your driving style.

When I mentioned EFI it's assuming brakes and suspension are already worked out and in proper working order. That's always the priority. Opinions will vary but something close to factory (disk brakes up front atleast) has plenty of stopping power IMO.

Having an older car as a DD is great but it can also be like marriage. It's all good the first 6 months and then reality sets in that this may not work out in the long run lol. Keep that in mind as you move forward. People change and so do wants and needs. I personally wouldn't be pryed away from my 4runner as the DD but you may care less. It's all about you lol....

It could be a great time in your life so give it a whirl. I did it 30 years ago and had the time of my life wheeling a muscle car daily...

JW
 
Mattax said:
W
Yup. Not ideal perhaps, but I've started my car down in the 20s - and no choke on that either. Yup, just got to prime it a bit with pumps of the accelerator. IMO a strong ignition helps starting when there's no choke.
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Correct. I have the big cap GM style HEI on it, even though it's a Ford 351M engine. Even stock, that's a dang hot ignition.
 
BigBlockMopar said:
I daily drive my '73 Dart in the Netherlands.
Been doing so since 6 years.
Used to drive a '67 Newport for about 10 years way before that.

Maintenance is key.
Replace anything worn or shabby that can leave you stranded and replace/upgrade with better stuff. Forget originality.
Especially the electrical system needs to be updated properly.
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I drive my 73 Dart everywhere I go, wouldn't have it any other way.
After driving a newer car today with electronic controlled everything I can hardly wait to get back in the Dart.
Gotta agree that originality is not best suited for a daily driver, and some updated equipment is a big plus for a DD.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Correct. I have the big cap GM style HEI on it, even though it's a Ford 351M engine. Even stock, that's a dang hot ignition.
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Sometimes when people ask how much difference there is between a stock old Mopar ignition and HEI I tell them this.
"Getting slapped by regular ign hurts all the way up to the end of your finger and HEI hurts all the way up to your shoulder and includes the back of your head when you bang it on the underside of the hood trying to get away from it." :D
 
RustyRatRod said:
That's total, not initial. Total timing is taken with the engine warmed and at idle.[
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dano said:
Really depends on your budget and what your comfortable tuning. Both can be reliable. I work with a guy who has installed 9 Snipers for various friends with no issues and they all love them. Here in the States fuel is our biggest battle as it lights off quickly, so in warm climates the carb bowls will boil dry and vapor lock can happen, an electric fuel pump in conjunction with a mechanical (Or all electrical if you want) will help overcome those issues. 14F to 70F seems very reasonable for a carb to operate in. I have a few questions:

1. Is your high Idle set up? As in fire it up , it idle about 100-1200rpms then if you goose the throttle it comes down to idle around 500 to 800 rpms (Idle RPM depends on your build, trans, etc)
2. Do you have a mechanical or electric choke? Is it hooked up? if electric, you can adjust the speed that the choke pulls off, you may have it set too fast. This you may need to adjust a few times as weather conditions change.
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I have a mechanical choke, but i feel its not responding very well, dies on me almost instantly when closed.. High idle is setup after sound, don't have a rpm gauge, should get one tho..
 
383Scampman said:
If you want it more reliable for daily use , leave it alone . My question to you is : why ????? Why do you want to drive a 50 year old car every day ? to be cool or tobe cheap ? Neither option works very well . I drove a 1964 Dodge every day for a while and all I did was repair it . I spent almost every spare moment repairing or maintaining it . Unless EVERYTHING in the Dart is new prepare for repairs weekly AND keep up your membership in the auto club . You'll need it .
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Would it be the same if i wanted it in my 84 pickup? same engine n'all, they drove the cars daily before why can't we?
 
Alot of great answers, thank you guys!

Some more info: i have disc brakes in front and drum brakes behind, cooling is stock and the trans(727 automatic) was rebuilt in 2017. Engine is stock from the pickup and has the 4 barrel street warrior.. I have concluded to upgrading the carb to an edelbrock AVS with electric choke. Upgrading the timing sounds like a good idea. I want to drive it daily because i think its easier to change parts on older cars than 10 year old cars that require alot of diagnostic.. When the engine is 35 years old and from a pickup it might be time to do a rebuild on it too. Holley sniper really sounds good but i don't want it to get complicated. PS. Alternator and starter is stock and everything else is stock that i know of. if anything brakes i'll just upgrade it then.
 
Hansen said:
I have a mechanical choke, but i feel its not responding very well, dies on me almost instantly when closed.. High idle is setup after sound, don't have a rpm gauge, should get one tho..
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The AVS is a good carb but you can buy an electric choke to add to your Holley. As other have stated I'd get things sorted on the ignition side, then get the idle set and move to the choke. A dial back timing gun with a built in tach is really handy. Ad a vacuum gauge and a volt meter and you'll have most of what you need to get this tuned up correctly. Don't throw parts at it until you diagnose its a problem.
 
Change the alternator for a more modern one so it also charges when idling for a long period on a rainy day in a traffic jam, with headlights, wipers, heaterfan, soundsystem and brakelights on.
Change the starter for an '80s starter for less weight, quicker cranking rpm.
Change the battery for a gel-based battery with a high CCA-rating.
An overdrive transmission really brings an older car into the almost modern age and will make the car much more fun to drive.
Install a relay into the headlight-system. Install a relay into the ignition system. Install a relay into the wiper-wiring. This ensures full charging power to those systems and provide better operation and relieve the switches having to control a current load.
Bypass the high current wires going through the bulkhead connector and steering column for instance. These are a common source for under dash meltdowns or worse, fires.
Replacing the H4-headlights with H4 LED-headlights will also lessen the load on the wiring and alternator.
 
Sorry. Can't agree with any of that, especially for someone just starting to learn.
 
Hansen said:
Would it be the same if i wanted it in my 84 pickup? same engine n'all, they drove the cars daily before why can't we?
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Long story short: it's a different world today.
There's a few problems driving old cars:
  • Oils have changed.
  • Gas has changed.
  • Drivers have changed.
The last one is the most important, IMO. People take for granted just how quickly new cars accelerate, turn and brake. Which often turns careless drivers into obstacles that are very hard to avoid on the open road in an old car. Back when everything handled like crap, most people drove more carefully and more slowly, by necessity, which resulted in fewer close calls.

New gasoline is a pain in the ***. It evaporates quickly, gums things up when it does, and generally makes it frustrating to operate an old car. It reduces the reliability and generally makes it a job to operate the vehicle. This was my main reason for switching to EFI. Having my battery die while trying to crank some fuel into a hot carb on a summer day (112F that day) was the last straw.

New oils don't like our old cars which forces us into special treatment and require oil changes more often. We used to do frequent changes back in the day, but every corner gas station also had oil we could use and lube shops had quality workers (more frequently than today, at least). Not so, anymore. Which means ordering the right stuff, stock piling it, and dealing with all the roadblocks that exist to handling it ourselves (oil recycling for those in some states, for example).
 
^now, with all that said, there's not a single issue that can't be overcome.
Good brakes, rubber, and an undercarriage that isn't flat worn-out are a must.
Doesn't need to be new, but anything on the car old enough to run for president should be thoroughly inspected or replaced.

That, I think, gets you 70% of the way to a daily. Unless other issues already exist - which should of course be addressed.
 
TrailBeast said:
I drive my 73 Dart everywhere I go, wouldn't have it any other way.
After driving a newer car today with electronic controlled everything I can hardly wait to get back in the Dart.
Gotta agree that originality is not best suited for a daily driver, and some updated equipment is a big plus for a DD.
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Ever drive in an old car in New England every dat ? I think not .
 
383Scampman said:
Ever drive in an old car in New England every dat ? I think not .
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dang, so when did you guys start driving up there? When they invented heated seats? Surely no one drove anywhere up there before fuel injection. Must’ve been terrible to miss the entire muscle car era with no cars.

Oh, wait, people drove all those “old” cars every day back when they were new because that’s what there was.

So what’s your excuse?
 
Yes the roads and weather are pretty much the same as in the 70's and they where sure driven then.
A bodies can upgraded with stuff available today
The drivers today are more of a problem, however they seem give me a wider
berth when driving a classic car daily.
Make it stop, handle , turn in ,rattle free, start under all conditions,get EVERYTHING
working properly, rustproof as much as possible.
Depending on where your located is a big factor if you are considering a classic DD
Who would want to trash a a nice classic through a salty winter after extensive and
expensive repairs/resto?. I don't want to drive anymore with salt on the road.
People get fat spoiled and lazy very easy with new cars and products. Example: Try watching a movie on an old TV, same with old vs new cars.
 
I "Friday and Saturday" drive my '73 318 Satellite every chance I get.

It is a nearly bone stock, 60,000 mile original "survivor".

It has the factory electronic ignition (with a spare brain and ballast resistor in the trunk), factory disk brakes (with DOT 5 fluid), factory 14x5.5 and 15x6.5 rallye wheels with modern radial Cooper Cobra tires, and the factory carter 2 barrel carb (which I have only had to adjust once, right after I bought it).

It does have added dual 2.25" exhaust and an aftermarket 1.25" front sway bar.

I also added mechanical temp and oil gauges and a tach.

The AC has been converted to 134 with all the factory parts still installed and it works.
(In stop and go traffic it can get hot with the AC running, requiring the AC to be turned off periodically)
(a fast idle solenoid may fix this, but it did not have one from the factory)

I would not hesitate to let my wife drive this car alone to Atlanta and back.
It's that reliable!

Disclaimer- we are in Florida with decent roads that never get salted and it only gets below 40 degrees for a couple of weeks a year however, there is never a guarantee it will not rain while I am driving the car and it frequently does.

In fact, the day I bought the car I had to drive it home through tropical storm Sandy. ALL THE WAY through from one side to the other. The car had a bad master cylinder, no wipers and no defogger!
 
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YY1 said:
carbs, especially the small block 2 bbl and the AFB/AVS style Carter/Edelbrock 4 bbls can be super reliable

just remember to set the choke and let them warm up, something that EFI lets you forget about

electric fuel pumps are unnecessary on most daily driver cars and actually can add a point of failure

OTOH, they are a requirement for EFI along with a pressurized fuel line system and a return line
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Get a fuel card that earns points. Your gonna need it.
They don’t like short jaunts. You must get these old cars to temperature and hose them out once or twice to keep things working.
Maybe another fuel card
 
12swinger said:
Get a fuel card that earns points. Your gonna need it.
They don’t like short jaunts. You must get these old cars to temperature and hose them out once or twice to keep things working.
Maybe another fuel card
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I'd rather drive a classic that gets 25mpg hiway than a new POS that gets 30.:D
 
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