Nitrous plumbing A1A...??..
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j par
Well-hung Member
Doing more research last night and getting more and more questions and less and less answers LOL.. so I look at those Speedmaster cheater plates and all their fittings and of course they come with massive jets that I don't need.. so then I start looking at jet sizes and finding out that certain manufacturers have certain jets for their application. I was looking at the lesser expensive zex solenoids. But then those Speedmaster cheater plates look like they may be from nos..??? Then I wonder how all that crosses over? Also a lot of the jet sizes depend on bottle pressure and fuel pressure...
I'm starting to think the only way to do this the easy way is to buy a complete kit from one manufacturer...
I'm starting to think the only way to do this the easy way is to buy a complete kit from one manufacturer...
No expert either but a rich tune is Not "safe" as I thought it was back in my day, it may let you get away with too much timing but thats only because your not making the power you should with the jets. When you get up into the 300 shot plus zone a rich tune will remove the ring lands on your pistons fast.
j par
Well-hung Member
I've also noticed that a lot of the single kits have solid lines that are pre bent going to the cheater plate.. if I could find one of the more inexpensive single kits with flexible lines then I could buy a second plate with flexible lines and T fittings...
j par
Well-hung Member
$$$$$$$ correct...
Bobzilla
Well-Known Member
Just like anything related to a proper tune on a naturally aspirated engine, you will keep seeing horror stories and solutions that are all over the place. The easiest way to think of a nitrous setup for this particular combination is to understand it.
The brand of nitrous jets should match the brand of the plate, since all plates are slightly different. This way, you can start with that manufacturers basic jetting suggestion and it will work well within the safety limits of the tune. No worrying about too rich or too lean for starting out.
The brand of solenoids won't matter at all at this lower intended horsepower level, as long as they are rated high enough to NOT cause a restriction before the jets and plates. So if you are shooting for 100 HP total added power running two plates, one NOS brand Cheater nitrous solenoid and one NOS brand Cheater fuel solenoid can supply more than enough, allowing the jets to control the tune. NOS brand was just an example. Any well known brand solenoids are fine, with high enough rating.
Lines from solenoid to plates are up to you. I like bent hard lines for the compact appearance. Just keep the run from solenoid to the plates as short as possible as the nitrous will start vaporize in really long runs before the jets, affecting tune. Won't be an issue at this level.
Bottle and main feed line brands don't matter for the tune unless you have a feed line for a tiny kit on a tiny engine that only supplies enough for, say, a 30 HP snowmobile kit. Here again, a feed line for the basic kits up to 250 hp will be plenty to supply this setup.
I may have missed something, but just trying to point out that most basic kits will prevent any real issues with the tune. And that mixing parts is OK if done for the right reasons.
Keep the parts sized right, and start off with jets and plates from same manufacturer and everything will be safe.
The brand of nitrous jets should match the brand of the plate, since all plates are slightly different. This way, you can start with that manufacturers basic jetting suggestion and it will work well within the safety limits of the tune. No worrying about too rich or too lean for starting out.
The brand of solenoids won't matter at all at this lower intended horsepower level, as long as they are rated high enough to NOT cause a restriction before the jets and plates. So if you are shooting for 100 HP total added power running two plates, one NOS brand Cheater nitrous solenoid and one NOS brand Cheater fuel solenoid can supply more than enough, allowing the jets to control the tune. NOS brand was just an example. Any well known brand solenoids are fine, with high enough rating.
Lines from solenoid to plates are up to you. I like bent hard lines for the compact appearance. Just keep the run from solenoid to the plates as short as possible as the nitrous will start vaporize in really long runs before the jets, affecting tune. Won't be an issue at this level.
Bottle and main feed line brands don't matter for the tune unless you have a feed line for a tiny kit on a tiny engine that only supplies enough for, say, a 30 HP snowmobile kit. Here again, a feed line for the basic kits up to 250 hp will be plenty to supply this setup.
I may have missed something, but just trying to point out that most basic kits will prevent any real issues with the tune. And that mixing parts is OK if done for the right reasons.
Keep the parts sized right, and start off with jets and plates from same manufacturer and everything will be safe.
weedburner
Well-Known Member
Us DIY's don't need no stinking nitrous jets! The plate that's on my car right now doesn't even use a nitrous jet, the bored out and ported solenoid itself acts as the jet. On the fuel side, it uses a standard Holley carb jet that's pressed into a drilled out pipe nipple that's screwed into the plate. System is tuned with a wideband, A/F is dialed in by changing fuel pressure.
Grant
SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
^^^^^^ I think this is what I’d do.
Like this perhaps>
NOS 02010BNOS NOS Cheater Wet Nitrous System for 2x4 Dual 4150 4-barrel Carburetors-Black
Don't know what todays jetting is like but as an example back then a single 4 cheater system had 52n/59f for a 125 shot, 73n/82f-175 shot and 110n/110f-250 shot, these were all very rich tunes from NOS and you can understand why. I would imagine fuel jet is now smaller than the nitrous jet@5>6psi just follow their instructions on how much to back off the timing, normally its 2 deg for every 50hp. A 150 shot is where you start to notice a good power increase depending on the combo.
NOS 02010BNOS NOS Cheater Wet Nitrous System for 2x4 Dual 4150 4-barrel Carburetors-Black
Don't know what todays jetting is like but as an example back then a single 4 cheater system had 52n/59f for a 125 shot, 73n/82f-175 shot and 110n/110f-250 shot, these were all very rich tunes from NOS and you can understand why. I would imagine fuel jet is now smaller than the nitrous jet@5>6psi just follow their instructions on how much to back off the timing, normally its 2 deg for every 50hp. A 150 shot is where you start to notice a good power increase depending on the combo.
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lead69
hopeless car junkie
In my opinion first thing if you havent is to call Ted and see where the ring gaps are and get his opinion on what you want to do, much easier to deal with it now. I would also do the separate fuel system as you mentioned and use race gas in it to be safe. I would also get a progressive controller, you can get a simple one cheap and it will do the job. And last but not least run the speedmaster heads but imo the nitrous stuff is no bueno when you have so many affordable options out there (not cheap lol,but affordable how much is the engine worth?). Back in the day there were only a few companies dealing with nitrous and now there are many options to choose from. personally I would rather be conservative than to push the envelope, it can get expensive quick.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Some guys get to tied up thinking they need tight ring gaps on any build. My 422 ran exactly the same after 4 years of running alcohol and I’m betting I get more ring and bore wear than the average guy on gas.
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Plugs were cheap. pistons and the rest were not.
Had the motor built with this in mind. Not sure today what the rings were gapped at as it was 30 years ago. The motor survived and still runs pretty good today even after 20+ years of storage.
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I know Monte that posted on Moparts for years and worked for a big nitrous company said never ever set up rich. That was old school thinking that rich was safe.
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Could be, I am old school and no more! Like said no expert, but enjoyed the cheap extra HP, it sure was fun! And also never hurt the motor. Wish I could say the same for the 9” converter!
And thats good advice, I ran rich because thats how the kit came and we didn't know any better, (2 deg out on a 250 shot), never tipped a plug cos rich tunes can stand more timing and your just not making the power, also ran the fuel psi down to 4 with no gain as was way rich, would've gone faster with 6>8 out. 1.4 secs faster on a 250 shot isn't exactly impressive, you can do that today with a good 150>175 shot I reckon.
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j par
Well-hung Member
I was out shooting the bull getting my flywheel resurfaced for the truck and talking to Ted yesterday.. I told him I had nitrous on my mind his only comment was don't get crazy as in not too much...
I never had over a hundred and fifty in mind.. anywhere you look they say 150 shot isn't going to kill a motor if done right and no extra ring Gap is needed at that power level...
That's Speedmaster plate looks like an nos.??..
Now the shipping date moved from February 17th to February 24th on the summit site yet Speedmaster says ships within 24 hours... I would go to Speedmaster directly but I just can never beat the summit service..
I'm just about willing to take $100 chance and getting two of those nitrous plates with all the stuff that come with. Then I can look at the two sets of jets and make a determination from there. like someone mentioned that this power level I should be able to use the zex solenoids switch are a lot cheaper...
Don’t ever worry about Summits posted shipping date. They usually beat that by a mile as they drop ship. I think they do that to keep guys from calling every day.
j par
Well-hung Member
I wonder if that's just with all their dropship stuff...
lead69
hopeless car junkie
I agree,I would ASSUME coming from Ted that means all is ok but it would be nice to know where the actual gap is set. I'm just leery of the speedmaster plate, I guess I think anything for $45 is too cheap to be quality but what the hell do I know. I aint saying it won't work but I would be really critical of it and make sure all the threads/fittings etc are not junky. I am all about budget but I still try to be careful on critical things. The way things are going for me at this point I am just hoping to be able to get some tires to run my car this summer. But, if things come together for me and you get a kit it would be a hell of a race.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
lead69
hopeless car junkie
LOL, no, if the scratch is there then maybe, they do still make the weiand brand new. The x block and crank are higher on the priority list-you know gotta get new engine parts to collect dust before I get the car down the track lol.
Weiand 1995 Weiand Hi-Ram Intake - Chrysler Small Block V8
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