Truth about roller cams.... BEFORE you make the switch......

DID YOU KNOW???

  • I didn't know, thanks!!!!

    Votes: 10 55.6%
  • this is common knowledge, catch up with the times 318WR!!

    Votes: 8 44.4%

  • Total voters
    18
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318willrun

Utube channel 318willrun
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If you haven't read my "other thread", let me share something I'm experiencing now. You are being told by the gurus, utube, and everywhere else that your flat tappet cam is big risk on break-in, and keeping that zinc in the oil to keep it alive. The roller cam is the beat-all answer, right? ONLY IF you know...… know that:
  • Different cam grinders use different material on their roller cams!
  • Comp cams recommends the "bronze" distributor drive gear. But are you aware if it's a street car, that the bronze gear shears and loses tolerance after 3k miles? And those shearing flakes are in your oil??? Or, you can order the Crane melonized gear-only for 90 bucks. - BUT, needs to be used when both are new.
  • Hughes claims the factory magnum gear drive can be used with "their" cams
  • IF you get a factory roller cam reground, you can use the factory gear drive - unless they re-heat treat it!!!
  • Crane told me not to use their melonized cam gear where the bronze gear had been already, for fear of the wear pattern in the cam. I called competition cams, and they said "no worries, the bronze will wear before it ever wears into their cam gear". Who do i believe????
  • Not all billet cams have the same gear. AGAIN, every cam grinder is different.
This is my learnings so far. I've seen it once, I've seen it a 100 times, always the roller cam suggestion but NEVER read the information I just listed above.
  • Roller cams are great, but KNOW what the cam grinder uses, and what you need for your cars purpose going into it. Hope I saved somebody the frustration I'm going through now....
 
Buy a new roller cam, and a new hardened steel gear...... no worries.
I agree - in my case the van was already together and a running machine. I'm putting together a 5.9 magnum for the truck now, and I'll have it right.
No way do I believe I'm the only one that is/was ignorant on this subject.
 
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It’s not what happens much of the time, with people putting used gears in with new cams....... but I think you’d find most cam grinders would tell you to always use a new gear with any new cam.
Regardless of the material used for the cam core.
 
I won’t recommend you do it, but being reckless for the sake of curiosity I would try the Melonized gear on the comp cam and throw a blue bottle of STP and a NAPA gold filter at it. If it’s a hardened billet core then the thin teeth of drive gear is probably going to be case hardened deeper than any other part of the cam. It would probably have to eat a hundred bronze distributor gears before it had something that even resembles a wear pattern. But, since you’ve talked to someone at Comp, did you find out if they have attempted doing this before to confirm it before advising their customers to do so?
 
I still don´t get the point. We are still talking about hydraulic roller cams, or?

As i told you before, i do have a comp xr hydraulic roller cam, cast core - worked fine with stock oil pump drive. I do have a lunati Voodoo hydraulic roller cam, cast core - works fine with stock oil pump drive. And i do have a comp custom hydraulic roller cam on a SADI core (austempered ductile iron if i remember correctly) - worked fine with the same stock oil pump drive. No wear at all.

There are a lot of HR cams available that can use the stock oil pump drive.

Just my 2cents.

Michael
 
I won’t recommend you do it, but being reckless for the sake of curiosity I would try the Melonized gear on the comp cam and throw a blue bottle of STP and a NAPA gold filter at it. If it’s a hardened billet core then the thin teeth of drive gear is probably going to be case hardened deeper than any other part of the cam. It would probably have to eat a hundred bronze distributor gears before it had something that even resembles a wear pattern. But, since you’ve talked to someone at Comp, did you find out if they have attempted doing this before to confirm it before advising their customers to do so?
I did not ask if they had tried it. I'm going to roll the dice with you, I'm putting the crane gear on and it will be what it will be.
 
Even though I voted on the “Common knowledge” button, it really isn't until you learn these things.
  • Different cam grinders use different material on their roller cams!
I’ve only noticed two basic materials. Billet and the regular cast cam core. Did you find a third?
[*]Comp cams recommends the "bronze" distributor drive gear. But are you aware if it's a street car, that the bronze gear shears and loses tolerance after 3k miles? And those shearing flakes are in your oil??? Or, you can order the Crane melonized gear-only for 90 bucks. - BUT, needs to be used when both are new.
I have found this not to be true all the time. But the idea is the Bronze is to take the beating of there is an issue. When a billet cam core is used, there is zero tolerance for problems. A regular intermediate shaft will be eaten up against the harder material so a softer on is used to take the tiny bit of abuse the regular ones can not take an iota of.
  • Hughes claims the factory magnum gear drive can be used with "their" cams
I did notice that so I am lead to believe there cam cores are like the factory.
  • IF you get a factory roller cam reground, you can use the factory gear drive - unless they re-heat treat it!!!
Heat treating changes things. No doubt. The below I have purchase but not yet used.
  • Crane told me not to use their melonized cam gear where the bronze gear had been already, for fear of the wear pattern in the cam. I called competition cams, and they said "no worries, the bronze will wear before it ever wears into their cam gear". Who do i believe????
It appears you have confused the two gears and what there capable of. I’m not quite sure, but.... A new cam can and should use a new gear on the intermediate shaft. If the cam is used, I don’t see any harm on a new gear.
  • Not all billet cams have the same gear. AGAIN, every cam grinder is different.
This is news to me. How is this so? The gear is part of a 1 piece part.
This is my learnings so far. I've seen it once, I've seen it a 100 times, always the roller cam suggestion but NEVER read the information I just listed above.
There are normally notations on the catalog listing telling/warning you of the need for an upgraded gear.
Roller cams are great, but KNOW what the cam grinder uses, and what you need for your cars purpose going into it. Hope I saved somebody the frustration I'm going through now....
You probably did.

Now, a FWIW notation!

Crane Cams is one place that will have OE intermediate shaft compatible cam shafts. When you look at a Crane Cams part number, IF it ends in “IG” it is OE intermediate gear comparable. “IG” stands for iron gear.
If there is no “IG”, then you need ether the bronze or Cranes “melonized” gear. Which is also sold by Hughe Engines.
6BE72A21-9670-4207-A1B7-CDBE93F7882A.jpeg
 
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Buy a new roller cam, and a new hardened steel gear...... no worries.
And along this line, I've read a 100 roller cam suggestions to people building motors, even newbies. And I've never read on this site where somebody said "be sure and buy that new hardened gear". Maybe it has, and maybe somebody asked and had it answered, but it's not the general remark when somebody suggest a roller cam. Thus, I'm sounding the horn!
 
wich ones? I´m with you in this point: everything different than stock parts requires Investigation. But unfortunately for the customer the tech line guys at some manufacturers don´t know their stuff. I had to research this topic also...guess where i have my informations from ;-)
 
wich ones? I´m with you in this point: everything different than stock parts requires Investigation. But unfortunately for the customer the tech line guys at some manufacturers don´t know their stuff. I had to research this topic also...guess where i have my informations from ;-)
generally, my knowledge is if it's billet, you should run a different than stock cam gear. But I also learned each one does differently with the gear itself. Comp cams does not want a factory gear drive on their cam. That's who I talked with and did the most checking out because that's what the previous owner put in my van
 
And a lot that can't use the stock oil pump drive.......
I never heard that but I have heard that the stockintermediate shaft should be upgraded. Not so much the oil pump. Where did you read this?

And along this line, I've read a 100 roller cam suggestions to people building motors, even newbies. And I've never read on this site where somebody said "be sure and buy that new hardened gear". Maybe it has, and maybe somebody asked and had it answered, but it's not the general remark when somebody suggest a roller cam. Thus, I'm sounding the horn!
Like I mentioned above, the catalogs have the warnings. Phone calls I have made have always had the tech make the mention of upgraded parts needed. As in must have needed parts.
 
I agree with the billet stuff. Just took a look at the cam you mentioned in the other thread...comp 20-745-9, correct? Its a XR264HR-14. Comps specs say it´s a billet steel core…..but honestly i think this is plain wrong! I do have the XR286HR-10 here with me, believe me it´s a cast core. Why would a manufacturer use a more expensive material in a smaller cam? Do you happen to have a pic from your cam?

don´t want to bother you, just trying to clear something up.

Michael
 
I agree with the billet stuff. Just took a look at the cam you mentioned in the other thread...comp 20-745-9, correct? Its a XR264HR-14. Comps specs say it´s a billet steel core…..but honestly i think this is plain wrong! I do have the XR286HR-10 here with me, believe me it´s a cast core. Why would a manufacturer use a more expensive material in a smaller cam? Do you happen to have a pic from your cam?

don´t want to bother you, just trying to clear something up.

Michael
If it is me your directing the question to, no bother, but IDK why that would be. Perhaps a question for the grinder themselves?
Do you have a picture of the cam?
 
I just switched to a solid roller from comp and got a bronze gear.

I have a hard time believing it will be scrapped in 3k miles. WHo knows.. How do roller cams in late model producton engines hold up? Seems like they go past 3k miles ok..
 
meant 318Willruns post before yours.

I´ll make some pics from my cam later….it´s evening here and i have to finish my new front Brakes first ;-)

Michael
 
I agree with the billet stuff. Just took a look at the cam you mentioned in the other thread...comp 20-745-9, correct? Its a XR264HR-14. Comps specs say it´s a billet steel core…..but honestly i think this is plain wrong! I do have the XR286HR-10 here with me, believe me it´s a cast core. Why would a manufacturer use a more expensive material in a smaller cam? Do you happen to have a pic from your cam?

don´t want to bother you, just trying to clear something up.

Michael
I don't have a picture of it. My cam is in my van.
 
I just switched to a solid roller from comp and got a bronze gear.

I have a hard time believing it will be scrapped in 3k miles. WHo knows.. How do roller cams in late model producton engines hold up? Seems like they go past 3k miles ok..
I can tell you my bronze gear feels a little more "free" in the splines than what I'm used to seeing. And, your question has been my question, why don't cam grinders make them like the factory? But the gurus are saying it's because of the aggressive lobes need more spring pressure, thus a different steel. IDK to be honest
 
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I just switched to a solid roller from comp and got a bronze gear.

I have a hard time believing it will be scrapped in 3k miles. WHo knows.. How do roller cams in late model producton engines hold up? Seems like they go past 3k miles ok..
Factory cams are not on billet cores thus making it OK for the cheap gear they always had.
Bronze gears do not eat themselves up nor do the billet cams eat bronze gears. But that’s what will happen if there is an issue. The bronze is soft and better to have running around the engine than shavings of cast iron or whatever....
 
Lunatic cams recommend the coated steel gear the Hughes sells for my magnum roller with their cam... I won’t forget anytime soon as it cost me $400 Canadian by the time it was shipped to my door.
 
here it is, the comp hydraulic roller / cast core i mentioned. That´s the reason why i still believe that the one in the van is the same cast core...and compatible to the stock oil pump drive.

20200226_205157.jpg


Michael
 
any chance you´ll pull the Distributor to check the cam and make a photo?

I wonder about the grind#, the "H" for hydraulic is missing. At least this is the way i know to read the comp grinds. But the Valve Adjustment says hydraulic…..weird.
 
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