1964 Valiant Slant 6 to 318 Conversion ?

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cz619

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hello everyone,
so here's my dilemma i got this car a few months back and me and my buddy have been working on fro awhile. did a few things like rebuild=t the front end and converted to disc brakes. now we were read for the test drive and when i put it in D it didnt want to move tried reverse nothing. it didnt want to go into any gear. the fluid was check and was fine. to add to this the car was sitting for who knows how long it was supposedly rebuilt in early 2000s. my issue is do i have the transmission rebuilt or do i go full swap to 318 and if i do i would like guidance on that. ive spent a few hours looking online to swap and have many questions like the whole shifter situation. it has the push button ordeal. i know m cheapest option is to just have that 904 rebuilt but it wont be cheap. id like a break down of what parts i would need to do this swap. any info would be much appreciated.
 
Before you go crazy with an engine/trans swap and all that goes with it, find out what you're dealing with. It doesn't necessarily need a rebuild. Could be as simple as a shift cable being broken or out of adjustment, or any of a multitude of smaller issues. Did it work when you got it? Since you're not familiar with it, the first order of business is to have someone local that knows these transmissions take a look at it and find out what the problem is before you decide on a solution. Your wallet will thank you.
 
been done to death here. Youll need: drop center link, LA motor with 64-66 manifolds, Push button LA trans....(or cheaper, just a LA 904 and a Hurst Pro-matic or similar shifter). Also get the 2 LA motor brackets as your K is the same 6 or 8. up to 68 motors had one side torque convertor, 68 and newer had another so match your trans to your motors break year. Agree with Professor Fate, get it to a trans shop and find out whats up with the trans. could be just a front pump or more than likely a linkage issue.
 
Professor Fate said:
Before you go crazy with an engine/trans swap and all that goes with it, find out what you're dealing with. It doesn't necessarily need a rebuild. Could be as simple as a shift cable being broken or out of adjustment, or any of a multitude of smaller issues. Did it work when you got it? Since you're not familiar with it, the first order of business is to have someone local that knows these transmissions take a look at it and find out what the problem is before you decide on a solution. Your wallet will thank you.
Click to expand...

thanks for the reply it was working somewhat. it struggled to go into gear and it has been leaking the whole time also. as to finding someone local that is an issue no one around here that knows about these types or at least trust worthy. what should i look for then if a cable needs adjustment ?
 
pishta said:
been done to death here. Youll need: drop center link, LA motor with 64-66 manifolds, Push button LA trans....(or cheaper, just a LA 904 and a Hurst Pro-matic or similar shifter). Also get the 2 LA motor brackets as your K is the same 6 or 8. up to 68 motors had one side torque convertor, 68 and newer had another so match your trans to your motors break year. Agree with Professor Fate, get it to a trans shop and find out whats up with the trans. could be just a front pump or more than likely a linkage issue.
Click to expand...


yeah i saw that it has been done a lot before but so much info is hard to go through all of it iv spent some time to see what parts are needed and theres a lot of suggestions of this and that i just want a straight up parts list i can go off of if i do decide this route
 
The leaks could just be a bad pan gasket, or front seal. Where are the leaks: coming out of the bell is a front sealleak, time to remove the trans. Pan leaks are just that: pan gasket. The push button shifter mechanism is usually not the fault as its just a push/pull affair. The 'rooster comb' detent spring is the thing that gets the trans in gear, all the push button has to do is get it close and the ball detent will lock it in. There is an adjuster wheel on the cable where it enters the transmission. it can be turned to adjust the cable like a bike brake cable ferule. Here is a read about it, kinda lengthy but may save your *** when it comes to paying for someone trans shop to ask their grandpa to adjust it for you.
  • Update March 2014: Paul L. notes: “My 2 cents: I have used the Factory Service Manual method, test light method, Ohm meter method, and eyeball method. What I found was that there is a little inaccuracy in the shift cable mechanism. If you line up the neutral detent with the neutral safety switch by eye it will be close. However you need to use the push buttons to shift the mechanism a few times to see where things will 'land'. Most of the time it will be off slightly. You can then use the wheel to fine tune things. An analog type Ohm meter is then helpful because it will show if you are slightly off by showing varying levels of resistance as you adjust it in and out. The test light will work this way as well with the light getting brighter or dimmer as you home in on the sweet spot and the neutral safety switch makes good contact.”
(Hook up multimeter to back up switch and shift to R, check for continuity of meter and adjust to get highest reading /lowest OHM or test light brightness)
  • Steve C. replies: “You’re absolutely right, Paul. Depending on the condition (wear, bends/kinks, etc) of your shift cable, there is lost motion (hysteresis) when changing directions.

    ...


  • This is an extreme example, but exactly what happens with any push-pull type of cable application. This is the reason for the 'rooster comb' on the manual valve lever - basically we get it close with the shifter and cable, and the spring and ball force the rooster comb to precisely the same place every time. Unless of course, your cable is sticky, corroded, kinked, etc. and won’t allow the manual valve lever to move that extra small amount.

    Having fine threads and adjustment holes at 60 degree increments allows length adjustments of as little as .007" per hole, so finding that perfect spot is ensured, again, depending on the condition of your cable. And again, as long as there is not significant friction in the cable, close enough is usually close enough.

    So if you’re having a problem getting a 1962-1965 shifter adjusted properly, first check the entire system for lost motion. The shifters (pushbutton, console and column) are very robust and seldom the cause of problems (despite what you’ll read other places), but any attaching points of either the inner member or outer housing can cause issues.

    Starting at the shifter end, check the fit of the eyelet on the shifter pin (not usually worn but sometimes the wrong cable is used), the fit of the bayonet 'pointy end' into the adapter, and the fit of the adapter into the manual valve detent lever (often incorrect if parts have been swapped or modified). Also ensure that the eyelet and bayonet are securely crimped to the wire. Check the housing mount where the shifter (or bracket in the case of pushbuttons) is crimped to ensure the connection is tight and there is no movement. For pushbuttons, make sure the bracket is tightly screwed to the pushbutton unit. You can use a thin nut inside the pushbutton housing in the event of stripped holes. Then check the integrity of the crimps at the upper ferrule and the adjuster to be sure the housing isn’t sliding in and out as the cable is moved. Finally, check the threaded adjusting wheel to ensure there is no significant motion at the threads (there will be a few thousandths) and that the wheel is securely attached to the transmission case.

    Last, if your transmission has been rebuilt or repaired, be sure the manual valve detent lever spring is of correct size. Very few transmission shops have the correct spring, and since the original spring is very light (we are, after all, shifting with plastic pushbuttons), technicians often replace the spring with a heavier one, as it’s obviously 'better'. Too heavy or long of a spring requires additional force to move the detent lever, resulting in bracket deflection, loosening of crimps, or accelerated cable wear. In extreme cases the inner member will kink. It should take very little pressure to move the manual valve lever, unlike the 1966-later models.

    The bottom line is that the pushbutton shift system (as well as the console/column variants) is very robust and dependable. Stories of adjustment horrors are always the result of worn, damaged, or incorrect parts. Like the ball and trunnion, pushbutton vintage shifters get a bad rap because they are different, and many would rather swap them out than learn about them.
Mopar Push-button transmission tech tips
 
Last edited:
pishta said:
The leaks could just be a bad pan gasket, or front seal. Where are the leaks: coming out of the bell is a front sealleak, time to remove the trans. Pan leaks are just that: pan gasket.
Click to expand...

im not sure where the leak is coming from i would have to get back to you on that. ill will look more into it tomorrow im hoping its something minor. but it was working working a few weeks ago but very rough
 
it can also leak from the kickdown shaft on top of valve body or dipstick O-ring. I hate leaking 904 transmissions!
 
cz619 said:
thanks for the reply it was working somewhat. it struggled to go into gear and it has been leaking the whole time also. as to finding someone local that is an issue no one around here that knows about these types or at least trust worthy. what should i look for then if a cable needs adjustment ?
Click to expand...
Sources for help in your area:
Mopar Club San Diego
San Diego Mopar Club. Towards the bottom of their home page is contact info for their resident "techie". If he doesn't know, I'm sure he can point you towards someone who does.
A quick Google of "San Diego classic mopar service" brings up these guys:
Classic Cars » Car Repair
Classic Car Restoration | Automotive Services in Oceanside, CA | SOS Customz
I'm not endorsing any of these places, just showing that local places are out there if you're willing to look for them.
 
I feel like this is every reaction to /6 cars:

My tire is flat, should I just put a 360 in it?? battery went flat? 318 swap it. Exhaust leak at the muffler? 440 time!!!

Everyone is just chomping at the bit to get that engine out of there...
 
Loggato said:
I feel like this is every reaction to /6 cars:

My tire is flat, should I just put a 360 in it?? battery went flat? 318 swap it. Exhaust leak at the muffler? 440 time!!!

Everyone is just chomping at the bit to get that engine out of there...
Click to expand...

I am all for the slant 6, I'm just looking at all my options. If anything I would like to have the transmission rebuilt and keep it all together. I ever see any early a body with push button I love the uniqueness of it.
 
Professor Fate said:
Sources for help in your area:
Mopar Club San Diego
San Diego Mopar Club. Towards the bottom of their home page is contact info for their resident "techie". If he doesn't know, I'm sure he can point you towards someone who does.
A quick Google of "San Diego classic mopar service" brings up these guys:
Classic Cars » Car Repair
Classic Car Restoration | Automotive Services in Oceanside, CA | SOS Customz
I'm not endorsing any of these places, just showing that local places are out there if you're willing to look for them.
Click to expand...
pishta said:
The leaks could just be a bad pan gasket, or front seal. Where are the leaks: coming out of the bell is a front sealleak, time to remove the trans. Pan leaks are just that: pan gasket. The push button shifter mechanism is usually not the fault as its just a push/pull affair. The 'rooster comb' detent spring is the thing that gets the trans in gear, all the push button has to do is get it close and the ball detent will lock it in. There is an adjuster wheel on the cable where it enters the transmission. it can be turned to adjust the cable like a bike brake cable ferule. Here is a read about it, kinda lengthy but may save your *** when it comes to paying for someone trans shop to ask their grandpa to adjust it for you.
  • Update March 2014: Paul L. notes: “My 2 cents: I have used the Factory Service Manual method, test light method, Ohm meter method, and eyeball method. What I found was that there is a little inaccuracy in the shift cable mechanism. If you line up the neutral detent with the neutral safety switch by eye it will be close. However you need to use the push buttons to shift the mechanism a few times to see where things will 'land'. Most of the time it will be off slightly. You can then use the wheel to fine tune things. An analog type Ohm meter is then helpful because it will show if you are slightly off by showing varying levels of resistance as you adjust it in and out. The test light will work this way as well with the light getting brighter or dimmer as you home in on the sweet spot and the neutral safety switch makes good contact.”
(Hook up multimeter to back up switch and shift to R, check for continuity of meter and adjust to get highest reading /lowest OHM or test light brightness)
  • Steve C. replies: “You’re absolutely right, Paul. Depending on the condition (wear, bends/kinks, etc) of your shift cable, there is lost motion (hysteresis) when changing directions.

    ...


  • This is an extreme example, but exactly what happens with any push-pull type of cable application. This is the reason for the 'rooster comb' on the manual valve lever - basically we get it close with the shifter and cable, and the spring and ball force the rooster comb to precisely the same place every time. Unless of course, your cable is sticky, corroded, kinked, etc. and won’t allow the manual valve lever to move that extra small amount.

    Having fine threads and adjustment holes at 60 degree increments allows length adjustments of as little as .007" per hole, so finding that perfect spot is ensured, again, depending on the condition of your cable. And again, as long as there is not significant friction in the cable, close enough is usually close enough.

    So if you’re having a problem getting a 1962-1965 shifter adjusted properly, first check the entire system for lost motion. The shifters (pushbutton, console and column) are very robust and seldom the cause of problems (despite what you’ll read other places), but any attaching points of either the inner member or outer housing can cause issues.

    Starting at the shifter end, check the fit of the eyelet on the shifter pin (not usually worn but sometimes the wrong cable is used), the fit of the bayonet 'pointy end' into the adapter, and the fit of the adapter into the manual valve detent lever (often incorrect if parts have been swapped or modified). Also ensure that the eyelet and bayonet are securely crimped to the wire. Check the housing mount where the shifter (or bracket in the case of pushbuttons) is crimped to ensure the connection is tight and there is no movement. For pushbuttons, make sure the bracket is tightly screwed to the pushbutton unit. You can use a thin nut inside the pushbutton housing in the event of stripped holes. Then check the integrity of the crimps at the upper ferrule and the adjuster to be sure the housing isn’t sliding in and out as the cable is moved. Finally, check the threaded adjusting wheel to ensure there is no significant motion at the threads (there will be a few thousandths) and that the wheel is securely attached to the transmission case.

    Last, if your transmission has been rebuilt or repaired, be sure the manual valve detent lever spring is of correct size. Very few transmission shops have the correct spring, and since the original spring is very light (we are, after all, shifting with plastic pushbuttons), technicians often replace the spring with a heavier one, as it’s obviously 'better'. Too heavy or long of a spring requires additional force to move the detent lever, resulting in bracket deflection, loosening of crimps, or accelerated cable wear. In extreme cases the inner member will kink. It should take very little pressure to move the manual valve lever, unlike the 1966-later models.

    The bottom line is that the pushbutton shift system (as well as the console/column variants) is very robust and dependable. Stories of adjustment horrors are always the result of worn, damaged, or incorrect parts. Like the ball and trunnion, pushbutton vintage shifters get a bad rap because they are different, and many would rather swap them out than learn about them.
Mopar Push-button transmission tech tips
Click to expand...
does bypassing the NSS have something to do with it ?
i do apologize as i am new to this it is my first mopar and im learning
 
yes, short the NSS or tie it to ground and see if it starts, that's only a start safety, not a "no go' tranny issue. The mounts you need for a LA (318) in a 6 in a 64 are just generic any year 318 brackets . The K is not different, both 6 and 8 motor mounts end up in the exact same location/hole. Trans pan is an easy fix, just crack the pan open, catch all the fluid (that is left) and remove it. scrape the cork gasket off the trans and pan and install a new one. Torque the pan down in a star pattern to 150 inch/lbs and refill. lay under there and watch it. If you see a leak, wipe above it with a paper towel and see if its coming from higher than the pan, that would be a sector shaft seal, a filler tube leak or a cable leak, oor even a possible speedo cable leak.
 
pishta said:
yes, short the NSS or tie it to ground and see if it starts, that's only a start safety, not a "no go' tranny issue. The mounts you need for a LA (318) in a 6 in a 64 are just generic any year 318 brackets . The K is not different, both 6 and 8 motor mounts end up in the exact same location/hole. Trans pan is an easy fix, just crack the pan open, catch all the fluid (that is left) and remove it. scrape the cork gasket off the trans and pan and install a new one. Torque the pan down in a star pattern to 150 inch/lbs and refill. lay under there and watch it. If you see a leak, wipe above it with a paper towel and see if its coming from higher than the pan, that would be a sector shaft seal, a filler tube leak or a cable leak, oor even a possible speedo cable leak.
Click to expand...

im not to worried about the leak i know i can fix that myself. the issue still remains as to why it doesn't ant to go into gear. when i brought it home and got it started it was going in any gear with out an issue. it did leak a good amount and i had to refill it again for it to be ok. but after not starting it for id say 2 months it didn't want to move at all. im still trying to understand the cable shift and how to adjust it if i have to do that. ultimately my last resort would be to have it rebuilt if nothing works. i have the service manual and reading through it on how to adjust it but im still confused about it
 
Did you refill the trans with the motor running in N? (Park wont fill the convertor). A dead stick pour wont fill the convertor and may show full on the stick but as soon as you start it up and put it in N, the convertor will fill and swallow much of that new trans fluid. Now if you check it, it will look empty again and slip or wont engage at all. Keep it in N and keep adding until the stick says F or at least Add. cycle the trans through the gears a few times and let idle in N again for a few min. check a 3rd time as now the valve body will be full as well as the cooler. I poured 9 quarts into a C4 when it was not running and 3 of them ended up on the floor like an expanding pool of blood under the car. The C4 has a vent on top that it came out of as the convertor didnt take any of its 'full capacity' fill. Most 727/904's wont fill in Park so its common to start a cold Mopar, and put it in N to let it warm up. That way when you drop it into D or R, you wont have a lazy engagement into gear.
 
cz619 said:
im not to worried about the leak i know i can fix that myself. the issue still remains as to why it doesn't ant to go into gear. when i brought it home and got it started it was going in any gear with out an issue. it did leak a good amount and i had to refill it again for it to be ok. but after not starting it for id say 2 months it didn't want to move at all. im still trying to understand the cable shift and how to adjust it if i have to do that. ultimately my last resort would be to have it rebuilt if nothing works. i have the service manual and reading through it on how to adjust it but im still confused about it
Click to expand...
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by it won't go into gear. You mean that you try to push the buttons and they won't go in? If so, then I'd think there's a problem with a) the pushbutton mechanism itself, b) the pushbutton cable, c) something inside the trans or d) the park mechanism isn't releasing. Which reminds me: did you pull the park lever out of park before trying to put it in gear? If not, there's your problem, as it will not go in gear while in park. If you did try to pull the park lever and it won't move, then likely the park cable is frozen, or some problem with the park mechanism. You will need to remove the cover to inspect the park internals, and also disconnect the cable to see if it moves. (I have a NOS park cable in my parts stash that is frozen, so it does happen.) If "park" isn't the problem, IMHO the easiest thing to do is pull the pan and look at things. Number one, I've always found it easier to adjust the cable with the pan off. Also easier to disconnect the cable, too, as there is a clip deal that needs to be moved out of the way to release the cable (after you've removed the bolt from the adjusting wheel, of course), and that is much easier to do with the pan off than trying to poke a small screwdriver through an opening like the manual says you can do with the pan on. Once you remove the cable, then you can figure out if it moves OK when you push buttons. If so, the problem is in the trans. If not, it's in either the cable or the pushbutton mechanism itself.
 
As for leaks, the possible sources would be: a) front seal, b) dipstick tube, c) shift cable (there's trans fluid in the lowest six inches or so of the cable), d) kickdown lever seal, e) rear seal, f) pan gasket, or g) I can't remember if there's any trans fluid in the park housing, but if there is, then there's that, too.
 
'63-66 A-Body Products

So looking more into it what do I do about these few things here. I know that that website has the mounts for the 318 but are currently in transition to new owners and are out at least 4-6 weeks. Is there anywhere else I may be able to obtain mounts ?

Next thing is what would I be doing for exhaust manifolds ? I'm getting a 318 but I read there is issues with that is that true ?

Lastly for the floor shifter there is 2 that I looked into either the Hurst pro shifter 2 or the B&M pro ratchet shifter. From what I've seen there all universal. Is there any preference when installing ?

As for the other stuff I'm still looking into it that's including driveshaft radiator and the drop center link

Any other info is really helpful.
 
Sounds like you'll be dropping the transmission pan regardless. That is a great time to play with the cable adjustment, as you can see it move and insure that the detents on the internal shift lever match your push-buttons. Those cable-shift transmissions were also shifted with a floor-shifter (my 65 Dart) and a column shifter (my 65 Newport). I have a 727 small-block cable-shift tranny in storage and have seen others for sale, usually at the $100 I paid. I have rebuild kits for all w/ clutch and steel plates which were only $50 on rockauto (come & go). If you do go to a later transmission, you'll need a slip-yoke drive-shaft and insure the engine's crank hole matches the tranny's torque converter. They changed ~1967.

Personally, if I did so, I would go all the way to a 5.9L Magnum V-8 and transmission for it. That would give you MPFI, roller-rockers, crank-trigger ignition (though still a distributor, I know strange), and a 4-spd auto-trans. But, you do need to cut and reform the floor tunnel. A new Hemi is another option or even a Chevy LS. But, first yiew the youtube of 1967 Plymouth w/ slant-six running 9.09 sec in the 1/4-mile. He did add a turbocharger and such.
 
BillGrissom said:
Sounds like you'll be dropping the transmission pan regardless. That is a great time to play with the cable adjustment, as you can see it move and insure that the detents on the internal shift lever match your push-buttons. Those cable-shift transmissions were also shifted with a floor-shifter (my 65 Dart) and a column shifter (my 65 Newport). I have a 727 small-block cable-shift tranny in storage and have seen others for sale, usually at the $100 I paid. I have rebuild kits for all w/ clutch and steel plates which were only $50 on rockauto (come & go). If you do go to a later transmission, you'll need a slip-yoke drive-shaft and insure the engine's crank hole matches the tranny's torque converter. They changed ~1967.

Personally, if I did so, I would go all the way to a 5.9L Magnum V-8 and transmission for it. That would give you MPFI, roller-rockers, crank-trigger ignition (though still a distributor, I know strange), and a 4-spd auto-trans. But, you do need to cut and reform the floor tunnel. A new Hemi is another option or even a Chevy LS. But, first yiew the youtube of 1967 Plymouth w/ slant-six running 9.09 sec in the 1/4-mile. He did add a turbocharger and such.
Click to expand...


thanks for the info, ultimately in the end i would prefer the swap. a buddy has a 318 and trans already thats why i would do the swap so im just going to piece out the parts. my only concern is the motor mounts and exhaust it seems everything else would be easy to find and get. in the previous post i saw that they make the mounts but are backed up for weeks possibly months. then the exhaust manifolds. im unsure for that
 
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