I’m an ATF type of guy myself. I coat my bores down with it as soon as I’m done washing a block and several times during a build.
Scored Main Cap Bearing - Ouch
- Thread starter blewbyoutobad
- Start date
-
I’m an ATF type of guy myself. I coat my bores down with it as soon as I’m done washing a block and several times during a build.
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
I'm one that has faith it will hold together this time. I have seen way worse that took a bearing change and went on to live a happy life . keep a close eye on the oil pressure
Ok guys heres an update. Against my own advise I decided to finish the work on installing the bearings and getting thr mtr to run again. John dont be to hard on me. LOL Since I already had the bearings, rear seal and pan gasket I went ahead and finished with the assy under the car. Everything back together and went for a 50 mile drive yesterday. Oil pressure was 70 cold and settled at 65 hot on the highway at 2600 RPMs and 170F water. Pulled the oil filter today and tore it apart and found only 1 tiny fragment that would not pass through the element. Drained the oil and it is contaminated with bearing metallics, but not like the concentration before. I am hoping this is left over and the flush will catch the rest. Filter doesn't catch any of these particles. Im running 10/40 and Lucas additive. Have kept RPMs under 3500 and easy driving. So where do I go from here. Frequent oil changes and filter checks? At what frequency? How should I drive it, rings are seated.
I would also like to thank everyone for their advice given and for being a part of the thread. I will continue to post updates when they happen. Hopefully they will all be good. FOR THE GOOD NEWS THE REAR SEAL LEAK THAT STARTED THIS ADVENTURE IS NOW FIXED. NOT A DROP.
I would also like to thank everyone for their advice given and for being a part of the thread. I will continue to post updates when they happen. Hopefully they will all be good. FOR THE GOOD NEWS THE REAR SEAL LEAK THAT STARTED THIS ADVENTURE IS NOW FIXED. NOT A DROP.
Hey all I do is try to help. Is it right? Heck no!!! Will it last??? Probably long enough to finish up your other engine and hopefully get you through the summer. We have all done things we shouldn’t do but that’s part of the game. Be safe and have fun.
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
I would another change it now. put another 50 on it and change it again. if it hasn't cleared up by then there's the possibility it's eating another bearing. one sign that its going south will be your hot idle oil pressure will continue to drop because the clearance (s) are increasing as bearing material is going away
Thank you sir, I dug out the other engine so I can start on it. Hopefully this one will get me to the spring summer cruises until I get the other mtr ready. Will just freshen up that mtr and start looking at better heads than the X that I have. I will do all cleaning on it and find another shop if I need work done. Going to invest in some good mics and gauges and any specialty tools I need, cam bearing, cam handle, ring grinder etc. Torque wrench was recently calibrated. Hone myself or send out, no ring ridge on mtr. Thanks again John for taking the time to help.
gzig5
Well-Known Member
I know your motor is pretty fresh but you might want to throw a quart of Rislone in it before the next change. Might help keep any contaminants in suspension so they come out with the oil change rather than settle. Won't hurt.
They actually sell a motor flush that I think is kerosene. That’s what the old school mechanics used to flush engines. The faster you get it out the better. Just buy some cheap gallons of oil at Walmart. I think Pennsoil makes their house brand.
You know for whatever reason I have held onto a qt of Amsoil mtr flush for 8 years. I think I'll use that if the seal has not been broken. Great idea, I just changed the oil last night, Walmart 10/40 and I added Lucas ZDDP in it. Run it for how long then change hot? Idle, drive it?
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
If the metallic material that you think you are seeing in the oil when drained is like a silvery sheen on/in the oil, that is not likely bearing material. It is likely one of the assembly lubes or aids, and that super thin grey coating initial coating on the bearings themselves. That is something I see in pretty much every rebuild.
You don't have to 'fly blind' on this matter: Keep that oil separated and send it to an oil lab for analysis. If you did not drain it into a squeaky clean container, then it may be contaminated and not give good results. If so, then run another 100 miles of moderate driving, then drain the oil into a clean container and have it analyzed.
They will be able to tell if there is bearing material in there. You can have it analyzed a couple of times to get a much better idea of what is going on.
If yo do the kerosene or diesel flush, then run cheap oil for 5 minutes or so after wards and drain that out once it warms up a little. Basically, use the cheap oil as a flush for the flush. I have no idea what the Amsoil flush will do to seals, so personally I would just use diesel or kerosene, not running, to flush the pan out. Pour some through each head with the valve covers off.
IMHO, drive it with slowly increasing RPM's and hardness. Change oil at like 100 miles, 300 miles, and so on. Have it analyzed a few times to see where this is going.
You may well be fine, since you seem to have found the culprit. The bearing material that came out is relatively soft, not steel. The very limited scratching of the crank journals attests to that.
BTW, good deal on the seal !!!
You don't have to 'fly blind' on this matter: Keep that oil separated and send it to an oil lab for analysis. If you did not drain it into a squeaky clean container, then it may be contaminated and not give good results. If so, then run another 100 miles of moderate driving, then drain the oil into a clean container and have it analyzed.
They will be able to tell if there is bearing material in there. You can have it analyzed a couple of times to get a much better idea of what is going on.
If yo do the kerosene or diesel flush, then run cheap oil for 5 minutes or so after wards and drain that out once it warms up a little. Basically, use the cheap oil as a flush for the flush. I have no idea what the Amsoil flush will do to seals, so personally I would just use diesel or kerosene, not running, to flush the pan out. Pour some through each head with the valve covers off.
IMHO, drive it with slowly increasing RPM's and hardness. Change oil at like 100 miles, 300 miles, and so on. Have it analyzed a few times to see where this is going.
You may well be fine, since you seem to have found the culprit. The bearing material that came out is relatively soft, not steel. The very limited scratching of the crank journals attests to that.
BTW, good deal on the seal !!!
The Amsoil is for deposits, not what I want. I have some diesel here for my truck, how much do I add and how long do I run it just to get warm then dump it. Do I need to change filter before the next flush, then do it again. The material I am sure is the copper left over from the previous disaster. Analyzed is a good idea also. a company. What about ATF? I contacted Rislone to see if they had any ideas?
I’ve never done anything like you are trying to do but just a thought as oil gets expensive very quick. What if you would drain your oil after running it for awhile and run it through a paint filter so you could use the same oil to flush it again. Filters are cheap especially if the napa sale is still going on. I think the 1515 napa Gold was around 3.00 each. Be careful with the kerosene as my buddy spun a bearing using to much. You are in uncharted water for me but just throwing some ideas out there.
I’m not sure they make better ones than this or not. I see Walmart or any auto paint store would have them too. I always have a box of the Harbor is ones in my shop.
60 to 70 Mesh Paint Strainers, 100 Pk.
60 to 70 Mesh Paint Strainers, 100 Pk.
So is the whole idea to run a thin liquid then drain. I have 60 psi at idle so what about a 0W20. I have paint filters. I will run it then pull out a little and see if it can filter the stuff.
Anytime I am adding anything to my crankcase that is not oil I get paranoid. Ok with ZDDP but other than that I stay away from additives. Like you John I am in uncharted territory. Right now the mtr has new oil and filter with Lucus ZDDP, zero miles. Just a startup after the change then turned off.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
If you insist on the flush, I have flushed with diesel but not running. I am NOT recommending you use diesel or kerosene running. I really think you should just use it as a 'wash': pour it through, and let it run right out, to try to get out any stuff lying in the heads, and pan.
If you want to go hard-core with this: I actually put a full load of diesel in an engine that had coolant in the oil, and them primed the engine with diesel, while slowly turning the engine over and over by hand, to get it to go everywhere. Drained and repeated with diesel. I also pulled the lifter one at a time while doing this, starting at the one closest to the pump, and also tapped the lifters to get the old oil and junk/coolant out of each one. Then drained the 2nd diesel load, put in cheapo Walmart thin oil, and then re-primed for a while, while slow turning. Drained and primed and turned again, with a new batch of cheapo oil. Then drained that 2nd batch of thin cheapo oil, and put in a 10W30 Walmart oil, reprimed, then idled 'til it was warmed up, then drained and put in another load of cheapo oil, ran and changed that oil after 10 miles, and finally put in the oil I wanted. IMHO, oil is suuuuuper cheap compared to the time and expense of this engine work. (BTW, this process worked really good to get the coolant out, which had gone everywhere.... but then I found a massive head crack LOL.)
But I am really questioning if this is necessary in your case.
Complicated, I have a solid lifter mtr and am leaning more for the drain run and refill. By the way the Walmart oil is made by Warren Oil Co. in Louisiana. I have been using it in all my vehicles for over 10 years. Its in my Dart right now 10W40 conventional, 120K with the syn in my Genesis and never a problem. Here's a spec sheet for their synthetic oil.
Warren® Full Synthetic GF-4 Motor Oil
Warren Oil Company, Inc
Dunn, NC 28334: Benton, AL 36758: San Antonio, TX 78210:
Marion, IL 62959: Johnstown, PA 15909: West Memphis, AR 72301
WARREN FULL SYNTHETIC GF-4 MOTOR OILS are
superior-quality, high detergent automotive engine oils specially formulated
to meet the stringent lubrication requirements of today's engines. Synthetic
base oils combine with a carefully selected additive package to provide
maximum protection against wear, rust, corrosion, oxidative thickening, acid
formation, sludge and varnish deposits.
WARREN FULL SYNTHETIC GF-4 PASSENGER CAR MOTOR
OILS (PCMO’S) Meets or exceeds the requirements of MIL-1-46152E,
Ford WSS-M2C153-H (SAE 5W-20) and WSS-M2C930-A (SAE 5W-20)
and WSS-M2C929-A (SAE 5W-30). Meets DC MS10797 (SAE5W-20),
DC MS10796 (SAE 5W-30) and DC MS10798 (SAE 10W-30)
specifications. Meets Honda Service Fill Specifications. Meets GM 6094M
specification (SAE 5W-20, SAE 5W-30 and SAE 10W-30). Meets Toyota
specifications. Meets API Service Category SM, SL, SJ, SH complies with
ILSAC GF-4 requirements.
Benefits
Our highest level of protection for thermal and oxidation stability
Helps protect emissions system
Minimized rust and corrosion
Outstanding low temperature pour point
ILSAC GF-4 Energy Conserving
OK guys if you want an education on oil spend lots of time browsing the Petroleum Quality Institute of America. I am amazed after comparing the Wal Mart Supertech High Milage 5w/30 to other oils. It has one of the highest zinc levels 927ppm as compared to averages of 700-800ppm in other oils. In an article I read from Amsoil they were concerned that flat tappet mtrs with .500 lift need a min. of 1000ppm. Not quite there but darn close. And with the Boron and Molybdenum that almost all other oils use it might be OK. It is also low price conventional and syn. Check out the links you can spend a lot of time learning about additives and base stocks and seeing if your oil is listed. They do not have a lot of race oils but do have some Lucas and Amsoil, Pennzoil, Kendall GT, Mobile 1 etc. Enjoy
PASSENGER CAR MOTOR OIL
PASSENGER CAR MOTOR OIL
I’m a Penn Grade (Brad Penn) oil user only in my race cars. Used it for years but especially now as it plays well with the alcohol I run.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
927 ppm is not adequate. You need to shoot for up around 1200-1300 ppm, IMHO. That was where the ZDDP levels were before the EPA mandated drop in ZDDP levels that caused the problems to appear. Treating to get 927 ppm up to the 1200-1300 ppm range is takes almost as much additive as getting 800 PPM up to that range.
Been through the numbers..... you need 1/2 a container of Rislone Oil Additive (at it's ZDDP concentrations) to get 5 qts of 800 ppm oil up to, or a bit over, 1300 ppm. It's been discussed before.
Moly is certainly no substitute for ZDDP. IDK on boron.....
I am synthetic junkie, LOL, and have run over 1M miles with it on various engines, race and street, starting back in 1976. So no problems with that for me. I have not used any synthetic blends.
Been through the numbers..... you need 1/2 a container of Rislone Oil Additive (at it's ZDDP concentrations) to get 5 qts of 800 ppm oil up to, or a bit over, 1300 ppm. It's been discussed before.
Moly is certainly no substitute for ZDDP. IDK on boron.....
I am synthetic junkie, LOL, and have run over 1M miles with it on various engines, race and street, starting back in 1976. So no problems with that for me. I have not used any synthetic blends.
Well a half container is cheaper than a whole bottle. I know the Lucas I just bought was $20. Cheap insurance unless you are doping flushes like me. Still it makes sense. As we all know mtrs are not cheap. Its the hassle of all the R & R that I dont like.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
The numbers worked out only apply for 1/2 bottle of the Rislone Oil Additive, as they publish thier ZDDP concentration levels. IDK the concentrations of the Lucas additive so this rate of treatment cannot be used for the Lucas product.
How many oil changes does it take to equal the effort you have already expended? You can get a lot done in a few hours time. Cheap insurance to take your time...
How many oil changes does it take to equal the effort you have already expended? You can get a lot done in a few hours time. Cheap insurance to take your time...
Exactly, Not in any hurry, although I can still cruise by myself. LOL
Where did you find the ppm on zinc, I found it. I was looking at their engine treatment. Thanks
-
