People dropping FI setups like hot potatoes

What would you choose if you had the money

  • Fi setup

    Votes: 29 35.4%
  • Carburetor

    Votes: 47 57.3%
  • Who cares, i ride donkeys

    Votes: 4 4.9%
  • I like polls

    Votes: 2 2.4%

  • Total voters
    82
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Matt loves EFI. He's done a lot of LS builds with EFI. I just got done with one on the 51 Chevy truck on the 95 S10 chassis I built. I must admit, it runs pretty darn good out of the box with no tune yet. It will be about the best I've seen or read about.

I've not seen anyone on here or any other site talking about how good their EFI conversion runs. Every EFI conversion I've seen or read about seems to have "some" issues.
You're right, I initially had issues with my Fitech, mostly RPM noise (had to add grounds). When I built my new 418 stroker I decided to hide most of the engine compartment wiring by running all of the wiring through the frame rail. I also, with the help of my buddy Larry (64mopar) made a panel that fits under my dash that has my Mallory 6AL, voltage regulator, starter solenoid and 2 fuse blocks. I think this helped with the RPM noise faults as I have none of them now. It runs perfectly.
 
You're right, I initially had issues with my Fitech, mostly RPM noise (had to add grounds). When I built my new 418 stroker I decided to hide most of the engine compartment wiring by running all of the wiring through the frame rail. I also, with the help of my buddy Larry (64mopar) made a panel that fits under my dash that has my Mallory 6AL, voltage regulator, starter solenoid and 2 fuse blocks. I think this helped with the RPM noise faults as I have none of them now. It runs perfectly.

Mine runs alright ---------
 
When I put together the megasquirt for my magnum I knew nothing more than basic diagnostics. I really just followed the megasquirt-jtec guide I found online. It works great. The new AEM infinity system I just put together was way more involved. I built the harness, scoped every sensor, built my own crank sensor, and had to modify a cam gear. It was not for the timid. You absolutely have to have a willingness to learn and absorb the knowledge it takes to do it correctly. Most people don’t, and they want a completely bolt on, self tuning, hook up 2 wires and go system and any fuel injection system worth a damn is much more involved than that. I am a Holley carburetor guy, always have been and still use carbs on some stuff, but it’s because the vehicle they are used on demand simplicity due to their intended use and the class rules dictate a carb. Any vehicle I build and intend to drive will get real multi port fuel injection now. And none will ever be a TBI wet manifold bolt on deal. I see why those are being sold, they’re no better than a well tuned carb.
 
EFI isn't a remove from box bolt on and go deal.
Do the research, spend the $ on the fuel delivery, wiring, and charging.
When there's an issue use the kiss principle.
Don't immediately blame the efi, you'll miss the mechanical, the obvious.

I've had a few issues.
RPM noise, solved by shielding the wires. Had read about it before install, should have just done it initially.
Low to no fuel pressure. I didn't initially have a permanent gauge on it, so it wasn't obvious it was psi at first. After blaming everything found it was the wrong type of hose in the tank, couldn't take being submerged in today's gas, each time tank was dropped and checked hose had dried out.
Wouldn't idle correctly, wanted to stall. Had just r&r fuel line at tb, removed again, drained tb, must have had dirt in there.

Starts immediately, even in sub-zero, runs great.

FiTech support was very good.

Need more accessible info on all of the settings and features.

Went from 390s to 600s to efi.

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Speaking of grounds....My wife bought new in '05 a ford focus that I have had the misfortune to upkeep for her.lol
It's not that bad or maybe I'm used to it ....idk... but I have to clean cables and even added a ground because it would idle down with electrical load....like fans switching on or lights and heater blower going. Added an 8 gauge ground wire to the fender about 3 weeks ago and it went smooth....no idle change, did the mounts for the 7th or 8th time too..notorious on those to go out. Now 3 weeks later...I have to clean and re tighten the grounds ,again. We live by the beach..... but for some reason, only the focus has that problem. Grounds and signal wire isolated from eachother and other wiring IS most important.
It's a Ford. I had a '17 Fusion that had odd electrical gremlins. Including not starting, many times. Nobody could fix it. Even under "warranty". Well, they lost me as a future customer anyways because they don't make a sedan (car) anymore. Plus that un-fixable crap that is definitely caused by lousy design.
 
Several years ago a friend bought a Fitech for his '68 Mustang with a basically stock engine and asked if I'd help him install it. We put it on with a home made in tank fuel pump system. It has performed without issue and almost no adjustment since initially installed. He has since bought and installed two more. Both of these on fairly wild Ford big blocks and they too have not had any issues. His worked well so I bought one for my car which I have not installed yet. Hoping for similar results.
 
Several years ago a friend bought a Fitech for his '68 Mustang with a basically stock engine and asked if I'd help him install it. We put it on with a home made in tank fuel pump system. It has performed without issue and almost no adjustment since initially installed. He has since bought and installed two more. Both of these on fairly wild Ford big blocks and they too have not had any issues. His worked well so I bought one for my car which I have not installed yet. Hoping for similar results.

Once I had addressed my own issues with both my motor and install, a reset to 'factory' settings and then re-inputting my engine parameters resulted in the same. Plug 'n play with no real tuning changes (other than timing setup).
 
These points are worth reposting.
. Most people...want a completely bolt on, self tuning, hook up 2 wires and go system
And that's what most people are led to believe they are buying. A lot of marketing, including some toadies for the manucturers, go around saying just that.
Do the research, spend the $ on the fuel delivery, wiring, and charging.
Well said. EFI has different demands on the electrical and fuel systems. It sucks when people pay out some serious cash, often hard earned dollars, and then find out that the EFI package alone is not enough.

EFI project is totally cool if that's what you are into. And also I totally get it if you're not into crazy analog emmissions controls but want to set up an emmissions compliant vehicle. But the point is, its not a plug and chug. Ironicly, without emissions, a carburetor basically is. Carbs respond to what an engine demands. Whether its by how hard the engine is pulling, or by velocity past the boosters, the carb provides what the engine asks. Its why we can get pretty close with a generic carb and changing jets at the drag strip or dyno.
it’s because the vehicle they are used on demand simplicity due to their intended use and the class rules dictate a carb.
Another point somehow forgotten by the salesmen. For anyone thinking about some sort of competition, whether its dragstrip or autocross or something else - its definately worth checking the class rules!
 
I’ve heard the same on the ecu’s on snipers, I run a 3/4 wood spacer to eliminate this issue on the air gap .
 
Been doing it on STREET builds since 1980.

Again, if you do it correctly, a single plane intake is better everywhere.

And, a properly set up tunnel ram will outpwer the single plane single 4 everywhere.

It's that simple.

I'm not saying that you're wrong here...but as you know, this is contrary to the standard wisdom for most setups, especially engines that make their power at lower RPMs, especially with automatic transmissions.

So what does it mean to do it "correctly?"
 
I'm not saying that you're wrong here...but as you know, this is contrary to the standard wisdom for most setups, especially engines that make their power at lower RPMs, especially with automatic transmissions.

So what does it mean to do it "correctly?"


"Standard wisdom" has been wrong for decades.

I've posted this before, but I will give just two examples of how this works.

The first engine I did was in high school, for a kid from a different school. I had no idea what to use for parts to get what this kid wanted. He wanted a low 13 second 318.

So I called my local Direct Connection dealer to find out what I needed. I told him what I had to work with, and I wanted. We had a 318 and a duster. And an 8.75 rear with 3.55 gears.

So...I was told to buy the 284/.484 cam, put it in straight up. Use a Strip Dominator and Hooker 5204 headers. A 4777 Holley with the choke tower milled off. Get a set of 1.88 valve 360 heads. And change to 3.90 gears.

So I went to my local parts store to order the headers and intake manifold. After a long grind on how stupid I was, and how I must have misunderstood what I was told, and that if I used those parts, the car would be so slow it wouldn't pull a hat off your head. So they made me call the DC guy back.

And I did. And he said the parts guys are ignorant. That's what you need. Tell them to F.O. and order the parts. So that's what I did. All the idiots laughed and said we don't want any crying when the thing is a pig.

It went together and it ran like mad. We never did get the 3.90 gears in there. But it didn't matter. It ran just what he wanted.

"Standard wisdom" was wrong.

My brother bought a 69 Dart that had a fresh engine in it by a local guy. It had a Torker on it, and some purple cam, I forget which one. At any rate, I knew the Torker was a porker and I wanted to change it to a Strip Dominator. All the "standard wisdom" fools wanted him to use some junk dual plane intake. So I made him a deal. I'd do all the work and we would use a SD and if the car went slower, I'd buy the SD from him and put on whatever intake he wanted.

We went to the track and made a bunch of passes for a base line. The car, with street tires you could leave at 3200 and work the clutch and the car was in the 13 teens.

All I did was add the SD and back to the track we go. With the SD the car is now running 13.30's and my brother is not happy. I can see what's happening, and I want him to work through it, but he was blind to "standard wisdom". He couldn't get through his head that it was his driving that was killing his E.T. and not the SD.

So I told him go out and leave at 2000 and work the clutch and see what happens. And guess what?? The car dropped into the 12's.

The SD made so much more power in the 2500-3500 RPM range that it was knocking the tires loose and killing his E.T. Again, with an intake manifold that "standard wisdom" says is a high RPM only intake.

I can recount dozens more examples of replacing DP and inferior single plane intakes on cars with SD and similar intakes and never once did they lose power or driveability. Not one.

And since you asked, I'll tell you what correct is not. It's easier.

If you think you need hot exhaust gases under the intake manifold to make power, you should follow "standard wisdom".

If you think a cam with an LSA of less than 110 isn't a street cam, you need to follow "standard wisdom".

If you think a cam from a catalog is better than a cam that is custom ground, then "standard wisdom" is better for you.

If you think putting a bunch of corners in an intake tract makes more "torque", then you need to operate on "standard wisdom".

If you don't understand how an ignition curve and intial timing affect driveability as much, or more than than a QUALITY single plane intake, "standard wisdom" is what you should follow.

If you actually want to make power and clean up distribution issues and have driveability then you need to cam accordingly and NOT blow the LSA out, rather than reduce intake duration, add exhaust duration and then blow out the LSA to try and get your RPM back. That is the biggest killer of low speed power and driveability there is. Even the much respected (and he earned the respect he is given no doubt) Billy Godbold of Comp says the same thing.

The intake manifold gets blamed for just straight junk cams and cam timing. And yet, like a dog returning to his own vomit, guys keep buying these junk grinds, handicapping their engines with them, and then blaming the intake manifold for cam issues.

"Standard wisdom" is wrong.
 
Seen quite few come up for sale lately. I myself have experience with them and basically they are finicky and out of nowhere become unreliable.

One guy even told the story of his random no start, too common, in his sale thread.

Good ol carburetors...
"parts" instead of "gremlins"

Just like the entire engine/transmission/chassis and tire combo, the efi system must match the demand and skill. Some guys are stuck on alpha - n when they should be speed density, and vis versa.
 
Not to sidetrack but what system uses the GM 2 barrel TBI. A guy in town put one together that I saw at a car show and I never did find out about it.
 
Not to sidetrack but what system uses the GM 2 barrel TBI. A guy in town put one together that I saw at a car show and I never did find out about it.
I know some of the early DIY systems did. Maybe the Howell system does. never had any interest myself but read about guys who have done both (with varying degrees of success).
These links will get you going.
Useable TBI swap parts?? - International Full Size Jeep Association

"START HERE"--Fuel Injection FAQ--"START HERE"
 
It's a Ford. I had a '17 Fusion that had odd electrical gremlins. Including not starting, many times. Nobody could fix it. Even under "warranty". Well, they lost me as a future customer anyways because they don't make a sedan (car) anymore. Plus that un-fixable crap that is definitely caused by lousy design.

Had to comment on its a ford------
When my wife was hunting anew car (2017) the ford place in Bartlesville , oK. tried to sell her a new taurus , was a good looking car. The battery was dead and wouldnt start, they jumped it and said it was from sitting too long, and would charge up after driving it a while, after we test drove it for a while , she pulled over and turned it off , for me to drive , it wouldnt start, they still tried to sell it to us.
She then bought a new escape w/ everything on it , all wheel drive , ''they call it 4 wheel drive'' , 50,000 miles later , they replaced the engine , water in the oil .
FORD HAS A BETTER IDEA ! Remember that one ??
 
Not to sidetrack but what system uses the GM 2 barrel TBI. A guy in town put one together that I saw at a car show and I never did find out about it.

Don't know about GM but many of the OEM TBI that is the TB itself were built by Holley There are other "build it yourself" similar to Megasquirt, tiny companies I can't name them. It likely was mentioned, run over to "Binder Planet" there's a tech page there about adapting GM TBI to other stuff. You can "rechip" those computers which makes them attractive.
 
Had to comment on its a ford------
When my wife was hunting anew car (2017) the ford place in Bartlesville , oK. tried to sell her a new taurus , was a good looking car. The battery was dead and wouldnt start, they jumped it and said it was from sitting too long, and would charge up after driving it a while, after we test drove it for a while , she pulled over and turned it off , for me to drive , it wouldnt start, they still tried to sell it to us.
She then bought a new escape w/ everything on it , all wheel drive , ''they call it 4 wheel drive'' , 50,000 miles later , they replaced the engine , water in the oil .
FORD HAS A BETTER IDEA ! Remember that one ??

Let me guess, engine is a 1.5/1.6 Eco Boost?
 
Fuel injection? I love carburetors so much I put three on one engine. Fuel injection has its place but I'm a carburetor guy!

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In general, a wet throttle body fuel injection system, is not worth the effort over a carburetor. I think for the hassle and expense of fuel injection, multiport is the only way to go.
 
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