Bolt in cage?

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motorpirate

serial mopar owner
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We were watching a "car Show" on Motortrend TV yesterday about prepping a Camaro for the strip.

Almost as an afterthought they installed a pre welded 4 point bolt in cage.
Guess that's Chevy life, just buy a premade thing...
Anyway, it made me wonder if anyone here has fabricated a 4 point cage and welded it outside the car and then fed it in thru the door/rolled down rear window and bolted it in with plates so as not to have to weld inside the car?

Dany's Magnum swap '66 Cuda is not fast enough to need it ( and probably won't be) and it is still a "street car" after all, but if we could add the extra margin of safety without gutting the car ( which is a pretty nice but unrestored car with most of it's original interior) I would be all for it!!
'66 Barracuda.jpg
 
I don't think bolt-in rollbars/cages are legal at the track,they have to be welded in!!!
 
I had one when I was young and didn’t know any better. I would not waste my money on another nor risk my safety with one again.
 
It's definitely possible to vote one in maybe... I mean as far as pulsing one in you have to have a fish plate underneath and one on top and bolt them as in sandwich them together... but slipping one in there with the requirements of everything being one inch from the roof the doors and other things seems just about impossible..
The only difficult part about taking the interior out is the headliner.. beyond that you're only talkin 3 or 4 hours... Of course that's leaving the dash and steering wheel in and covering them as well as the windows.. the seats and the carpet and door panels would come out so quick it would make your head spin...
 
Also remember if it's driven on the street mostly they're very dangerous without a helmet on... Also the street is more likely where you'll get in an accident....
 
I don't think bolt-in rollbars/cages are legal at the track,they have to be welded in!!!
NHRA 4:10 says cars without a frame must have roll bar secured by 1/8 inch thick 6"X 6" plates on both sides of the floor secured with at least 4 3/8 bolts.
 
It's definitely possible to vote one in maybe... I mean as far as pulsing one in you have to have a fish plate underneath and one on top and bolt them as in sandwich them together... but slipping one in there with the requirements of everything being one inch from the roof the doors and other things seems just about impossible..
The only difficult part about taking the interior out is the headliner.. beyond that you're only talkin 3 or 4 hours... Of course that's leaving the dash and steering wheel in and covering them as well as the windows.. the seats and the carpet and door panels would come out so quick it would make your head spin...
It's really the headliner I am worried about.
I used to build totaled cars back in the day, and I have pulled more than my fair share of interiors.
And seen the damage an errant spark that gets past the covered up upholstery can do.
Thats why I wondered if anyone had tried to do the mock up in the car, cut and mark everything then weld it together outside and with maybe just the seats out and windows down slide it in the open door and stand it up inside?
Like a ship in a bottle!!
 
It's really the headliner I am worried about.
I used to build totaled cars back in the day, and I have pulled more than my fair share of interiors.
And seen the damage an errant spark that gets past the covered up upholstery can do.
Thats why I wondered if anyone had tried to do the mock up in the car, cut and mark everything then weld it together outside and with maybe just the seats out and windows down slide it in the open door and stand it up inside?
Like a ship in a bottle!!
Post#5?...
 
Post#5?...
I hear you, and you are right. but....
For the last 2 years or so we only drive it to and from the track. and if we can get the cage in in one piece and it is bolted in we could just as easily unbolt and remove it if the cars use changed, right??
 
I hear you, and you are right. but....
For the last 2 years or so we only drive it to and from the track. and if we can get the cage in in one piece and it is bolted in we could just as easily unbolt and remove it if the cars use changed, right??
I welded my fish plates to the floor which was really easy... and when I switched back directions to put the full interior in I just sawzall them off right at the bottom then put the carpet over top. so right now if I ever wanted to weld the cage back in I would just take the interior back out drop them down on the already welded in fish plates and go... From my experience this is a you've decided to do it or not kind of decision...
Anything is possible especially with them having the swing out side bars. That would allow you to possibly bring it forward and get it out..
What is the ET at the track out of curiosity?..
 
I welded my fish plates to the floor which was really easy... and when I switched back directions to put the full interior in I just sawzall them off right at the bottom then put the carpet over top. so right now if I ever wanted to weld the cage back in I would just take the interior back out drop them down on the already welded in fish plates and go... From my experience this is a you've decided to do it or not kind of decision...
Anything is possible especially with them having the swing out side bars. That would allow you to possibly bring it forward and get it out..
What is the ET at the track out of curiosity?..
It went 14.42 @98.6MPH at it's best last year. Shifting at 4K RPM. 3.55 gears.
We built an A998 (lower 1st gear) over the winter filled with all the "race" stuff Robert at A&A Trans recommended, including a 5K RPM governor weight. ( daughter drives it and prefers to let it shift itself. Trying to change that...LOL)
Then had Turbo Action build us a converter. It stalls about 3800 RPM in the car, as opposed to the 2200 RPM of the original last year.
According to the 318willrun 2020 Penalty Box it SHOULD be mid 12's??
Dany's Magnum swap makes it to the track!!! J.Rob is the man!!
 
It went 14.42 @98.6MPH at it's best last year. Shifting at 4K RPM. 3.55 gears.
We built an A998 (lower 1st gear) over the winter filled with all the "race" stuff Robert at A&A Trans recommended, including a 5K RPM governor weight. ( daughter drives it and prefers to let it shift itself. Trying to change that...LOL)
Then had Turbo Action build us a converter. It stalls about 3800 RPM in the car, as opposed to the 2200 RPM of the original last year.
According to the 318willrun 2020 Penalty Box it SHOULD be mid 12's??
Dany's Magnum swap makes it to the track!!! J.Rob is the man!!
318's penalty Box bahahahaha......
Now that I got that off my head I'm pretty sure turning that motor up a little further than 4K is going to get you a better ET...
Really it's those hard decisions whether you're really going to mostly dedicate this to the track and if you're going to need to drive it to the track and how far that is as well.... Also including your goals as far as et goes... Where there's a will and a budget there's a way....
318's penalty Box...
:rofl:.....
 
318's penalty Box bahahahaha......
Now that I got that off my head I'm pretty sure turning that motor up a little further than 4K is going to get you a better ET...
Really it's those hard decisions whether you're really going to mostly dedicate this to the track and if you're going to need to drive it to the track and how far that is as well.... Also including your goals as far as et goes... Where there's a will and a budget there's a way....
318's penalty Box...
:rofl:.....
I think we would be happy to be in the low 13's. thrilled if it did anything that started with a 12..
And I told her at the beginning of all this if she ended up really wanting to go faster than that we should build a trailer-ed, purpose built car.
And, in defense of 318willrun's Penalty box it was spot on when she was driving it with the 273.I think she came in 5th that year!!
Seriously, if it ever hits the 12's I will probably be looking to turn it down some...
 
I wouldn't trust a bolt in one..and your not going to need one till you get down to 11.49 or quicker..
 
sounds like the rulebook is saying a unibody car is not safe with a roll bar welded to sheetmetal. my insurance company for the street said no rollbar - I said jeeps have rollbars! and mine is well padded. Is there any data that on the street with a padded bar and a 5 point harness and no helmet no rollbar is safer. I have seen some bad street car crashes and said looks like they may have lived with a rollbar and seatbelts
 
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I think we would be happy to be in the low 13's. thrilled if it did anything that started with a 12..
And I told her at the beginning of all this if she ended up really wanting to go faster than that we should build a trailer-ed, purpose built car.
And, in defense of 318willrun's Penalty box it was spot on when she was driving it with the 273.I think she came in 5th that year!!
Seriously, if it ever hits the 12's I will probably be looking to turn it down some...
^^^safety is number one especially when it's your daughter! And if you're taking it to the track exclusively for drag racing then I roll cage at any speed would be under heavy considerations... Sandwiching the fish plates is just as strong as welding 1 plate to the top or probably stronger...
remember when you put the roll bar in there you're going to want to take some weight out because those things are heavy. Maybe consider taking the headliner out and all the heavy seat stuff, carpet and other stuff and putting them in the rafters in the garage... I did. And when I found out that it was too expensive and I wasn't enjoying the car and a half cut the cage back out and put everything back in and started to de-tune the motor a little bit to make it more comfortable for the street along with more comfortable gears...
 
sounds like the rulebook is saying a unibody car is not safe with a roll bar welded to sheetmetal. my insurance company for the street said no rollbar - I said jeeps have rollbars! and mine is well padded
Just for curiosity's sake is your roll bar in your Jeep less than 6 inches from your head?..
 
^^^safety is number one especially when it's your daughter! And if you're taking it to the track exclusively for drag racing then I roll cage at any speed would be under heavy considerations... Sandwiching the fish plates is just as strong as welding 1 plate to the top or probably stronger...
remember when you put the roll bar in there you're going to want to take some weight out because those things are heavy. Maybe consider taking the headliner out and all the heavy seat stuff, carpet and other stuff and putting them in the rafters in the garage... I did. And when I found out that it was too expensive and I wasn't enjoying the car and a half cut the cage back out and put everything back in and started to de-tune the motor a little bit to make it more comfortable for the street along with more comfortable gears...
That's kind of where I was. It doesn't need one by the rules, but if I can add it for a little extra safety and almost break even on weight by ditching the folding back seat and maybe the passenger seat I would consider it.
We are doing subframe connectors while the Kungflu is on us and the weld prep just got me to thinking is all...
 
Regarding your concern with the headliner: my Valiant is pretty maiden inside….very nice interior. So when i put in the Rollbar i was concerned also, but TIG Welding is so much more controlled than MAG-Welding, no splatter when done right. Of Course it was not possible to weld completely around the tube, so i had to put in some gussets left and right of each tube to pass tech. I put Aluminium sheet metal on top during Welding, to protect the headliner. No sign of damage at all. I absolutely suggest TIG-Welding!


DSCN2243.JPG
 
Regarding your concern with the headliner: my Valiant is pretty maiden inside….very nice interior. So when i put in the Rollbar i was concerned also, but TIG Welding is so much more controlled than MAG-Welding, no splatter when done right. Of Course it was not possible to weld completely around the tube, so i had to put in some gussets left and right of each tube to pass tech. I put Aluminium sheet metal on top during Welding, to protect the headliner. No sign of damage at all. I absolutely suggest TIG-Welding!


View attachment 1715498391
That's about how nice mine is too.
Plus the fear of splatter on the inside of the worlds biggest window!!!
I have a MIG but not a TIG, more stuff to buy I guess!!
I wondered about welding all the way around, any chance of pics of the gussets??
This is what a daughter that wants to race is like if you wondered....

giphy.gif
 
Here's the cage Mad dart put in and I put in headliner and insulation behind it with my dads help.

20150728_205825.jpg
 
Here's the cage Mad dart put in and I put in headliner and insulation behind it with my dads help.

View attachment 1715498574

When I put my 6 point in, I drilled holes in the floor to drop the main hoop down to weld the struts coming off of it , taking care to have them tacked in the right position to start with.
Then raised it up and onto the 6'' welded plates.
No big deal to reweld the holes up .
 
We are doing subframe connectors while the Kungflu is on us and the weld prep just got me to thinking is all...

You will be amazed how well, just the sub frame connectors work. You don't realise just how much flex is in a unibody car until you tie the front into the back.
I was running low 14s when i had mine installed.
 
When I put my 6 point in, I drilled holes in the floor to drop the main hoop down to weld the struts coming off of it , taking care to have them tacked in the right position to start with.
Then raised it up and onto the 6'' welded plates.
No big deal to reweld the holes up .

Pretty trick I say!!
 
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