After a fire.....

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Sorry to read this, glad the insurance company is stepping up.Tail gate switch pulls a lot of current too? That may have been an issue?
@rklein383 got more pics of the stand? Looks like only 2 attaching points?
I'm redoing my dash harness on our 67 cuda
Good luck!
Thanks
Steve
Make an easy dash stand out of 2x4's and some bracing. It is so much easier to sit on a stool with the dash at head height. The other thing I did was blew up the wiring diagram so it fits on a piece of cardboard that is around 2 ft. x 2 ft. Rod

View attachment 1715365895

Back side during the refurb.

View attachment 1715365896
 
No, actually the tailgate switch and wire are OK, just seems like water got in it, and it no longer turns and springs back.
Electriaclly, it functions. Looks like the fire began at the bulkhead disconnect. Anyone else suggest if the ammeter could lead to the bulkhead burning up?
 
That's thing. It's not like an ammeter on a generator. The alternator output does not go through ammeter.
I know it says 'alternator' on many Chrysler ammeters. It was unfortunate and confusing choice. It also says 'BATT' on the alternator. Whatchya gonna do.
The ammeter on a car only carries current going to or from the battery.
So the only times current flows through the ammeter is during start and while the battery is recharging.
A small ampount may also flow when stopped, especially at night in the rain, when the alternator can't produce enough power to cover all the needs.

This post has me so confused I don't know what to say, and I know how this stuff works
 
This really sucks sorry. If its not obnoxious to ask, where you in the car when it caught fire? Man that really could've gotten out of control fast!
 
This really sucks sorry. If its not obnoxious to ask, where you in the car when it caught fire? Man that really could've gotten out of control fast!
I’m thinking of getting small fire extinguisher and cary it in the car all the time. Back in a day it was common practice, I believe
 
Bummer!,
When you redo all the wiring put a fusible link/or a fuse on the main power wire before it goes into the engine compartment, so the next time your car just dies and your fuse burns out instead of what happened.
 
No, actually the tailgate switch and wire are OK, just seems like water got in it, and it no longer turns and springs back.
Electriaclly, it functions. Looks like the fire began at the bulkhead disconnect. Anyone else suggest if the ammeter could lead to the bulkhead burning up?

Lets answer in reverse order because you can help answer these questions better than us since you were there.
In a factory harness, the ammeter only carries current when the battery is charging, or when running the car on the battery (such as when the alternator is dead). Normally the ammeter needle is centered, indicating zero current in or out of the battery.

So review what was going on when the fire started. What was the scenario? That will be one set of clues.
Heat is created when current runs through resistance. More current or more resistance will generate more heat.
Look at the wires connecting to the different components, especially at the connections. Most of the ammeters consist of a metal bar with two studs pressed in, and an insulator. You'll see if there was heat in it, or outside of it, or not even close.

There's a couple ways an electrical fire can start. One would be from normal use of a circuit with a poor connection that got so hot it ignited something flammable nearby. The other is from a short in a circuit. A short is an additional or easier path to ground.
If the tailgate switch had water that was causing a short, that could increase the current.
If there was any wire that insulation had rubbed off and was touching other wires, or worse, ground, that would cause a short.

A fusible link, which a '64 probably had, helps protect against a direct short from battery to ground in the main circuit.
Fusible Links in Charging Systems with Ammeter
 
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I had a similar experience,a puff of smoke from the dash and then it would not start,
Disconnected the amp gauge and connected the wires together and the car started.
I now have all aftermarket gauges in a pod plus a battery discount switch.
 
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This really sucks sorry. If its not obnoxious to ask, where you in the car when it caught fire? Man that really could've gotten out of control fast!
Thank you for asking if it would be obnoxious to ask!
The car had been driven 3 miles, parked. Went for a walk, and while coming back, a fire truck drove past.
This fire dept. is a quarter mile away, and some kind resident called in the fire. Could have been so much worse.
Additionally, Roberts Towing of Lex Ky paid for the tow, because the owner is an old car/truck person. The older I get, the more I understand that there really are angels...…...many can't fly. Be an angel to someone.
 
So review what was going on when the fire started. What was the scenario? That will be one set of clues.
Heat is created when current runs through resistance. More current or more resistance will generate more heat.
Look at the wires connecting to the different components, especially at the connections. Most of the ammeters consist of a metal bar with two studs pressed in, and an insulator. You'll see if there was heat in it, or outside of it, or not even close.

FIRST: Ign was off. Car was parked. I’ve tested ign switch, post fire, and it does not
pass current when ign is in off position.
SECOND: Bulkhed disconnect badly fried on both sides of firewall.
THIRD: Wiring running to alt. and down to starter are fried, although the closer you get to alt, the less so.


Alll orig. gauges. The one change was to put in a 5V transistor/capacitor setup. BUT this was only hot when ign was on. It was lower than where most burning was, and the wires are not melted.

There's a couple ways an electrical fire can start. One would be from normal use of a circuit with a poor connection that got so hot it ignited something flammable nearby.

I've worked on electrical things long enough to know about shorts and corrosion causing heat build up. I sprayed electronics cleaner on the terminals in the bulkhead disconnect, scrubbed w/ pipe cleaners as best as could , no green corrosion, but they didn't look shiny clean, either. No melting evident in disconnect to suggest a previous heat buildup.

The other is from a short in a circuit. A short is an additional or easier path to ground.

I really doubt there was a hot wire short, unless somehow that 5 V setup was wired in wrong? It was making the gauges work, so I kind of doubt this was the case.
Highly doubt the hot wire was shorted under dash. But maybe???? Ivhad been taking that inst. cluster in and out several times, so who knows?

If there was any wire that insulation had rubbed off and was touching other wires, or worse, ground, that would cause a short.

A fusible link, which a '64 probably had, helps protect against a direct short from battery to ground in the main circuit.


I know about those obvious fusible links in the later harnesses, and noticed my car didn't have one.
 
Alll orig. gauges. The one change was to put in a 5V transistor/capacitor setup. BUT this was only hot when ign was on. It was lower than where most burning was, and the wires are not melted.
Your analysis seems sound.
I've worked on electrical things long enough to know about shorts and corrosion causing heat build up. I sprayed electronics cleaner on the terminals in the bulkhead disconnect, scrubbed w/ pipe cleaners as best as could , no green corrosion, but they didn't look shiny clean, either. No melting evident in disconnect to suggest a previous heat buildup.
Same.
I really doubt there was a hot wire short, unless somehow that 5 V setup was wired in wrong? It was making the gauges work, so I kind of doubt this was the case.
Highly doubt the hot wire was shorted under dash. But maybe???? Ivhad been taking that inst. cluster in and out several times, so who knows?

I'm going to guess it was a short to ground. It could have been in the engine compartment or under the dash.
The reasons are:
Key off leaves the main circuit and the feeds from it hot. Items after the fuse box and the headlight switch are protected.
There was open flame on both sides of the firewall. While there is some chance the dielectic grease carried fire through the bulkhead it doesn't look like that.
In the photo of the starter relay and bulkhead, the battery feed shows signs high heat. Those two wires are the lowest.

On the engine side of the firewall check the alternator for internal grounding. Output terminal (Batt) to housing should be open. Then check the output wire to engine and body ground.
The only other wire that could would be hot in the engine compartment with key off might be the feed to the horn relay. In 67 its off of the alternator Batt terminal.

if its not in those, then it prob was a main circuit wire inside.
 
Suggested scenario is that sufficient current was flowing to melt the insulation off the 12 ga feed wire to the relay.
upload_2020-4-6_13-5-52.png


And this cable or bundle must have a wire that also had higher current flowing through it than it could handle.
img_20190718_120920981-jpg.jpg


That bundle probably has the alternator output wire in it.
 
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Hi there. You have a lot of excellent answers here. As there's no way I can tell with 100% certainty it does appear to have started in the bulk head and or the amp gauge. Old Mopars have had this problem forever. After you get everything cleaned up and purchase the new parts you can get started. Also there is no reason to run a amp gauge purchase a voltmeter that will fit and looks close to the others. Let me know what additional accessories you plan on running. I'll see if there is a part number on the one wire/cable that I use also (it will help a lot). If you'll like I could draw you up a schematic and can give you a tips. I wish you luck as there's a lot of damage here. Again there are a lot of excellent ideas on this tread.
 
or the amp gauge. Old Mopars have had this problem forever.
This is as much internet myth as reality.
It does more harm than good to suggest a post mortum that doesn't identify the cause.
Rolling the dice has its place but this isn't it.
 
This is as much internet myth as reality.
It does more harm than good to suggest a post mortum that doesn't identify the cause.
Rolling the dice has its place but this isn't it.
Sorry dude but I'll just say it like it is.YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. 50++ year Mopar owner racer wrench. signed by your Journeyman Experimental Mechanic/Electrician. ps when it comes to my job I always roll a 11.
 
What a shame! Sorry for you!

Stock and no need to do all the bypassing. JMO. Be honest about it and if pure stock and old wire not addressed this happens.
 
.Really. No Fn really I probably lost my first amp gauge before you were a we t dream in your xxxxx xxxxx.. If you don't want to face reality then go to Home Depot and buy some paint tomorrow. If the person that started this post doesn't want my help it's up to him. Stock and needs no upgrades ay. And I'm sure your still driving with dim lights.
 
I recently replaced my headlight and ignition switches with Standard Motor Products, less than $15 each from Rockauto...

Are your wipers single speed? If so, I may have a switch for you.

If it were my car, I'd do a complete rewire at this point. My guess is 50 year old worn and brittle insulation was the cause. I've had plenty of electrical issues due to old wiring, luckily I've never had a fire.
 
Sorry dude but I'll just say it like it is.YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. 50++ year Mopar owner racer wrench. signed by your Journeyman Experimental Mechanic/Electrician. ps when it comes to my job I always roll a 11.
Matt is an electrical engineer....AND a very smart dude.....Just saying.....
There has to be a short to ground, and the bulkhead issue usually manifests itself as an open circuit. IM uneducated view!
 
It is an approachable problem In my 1964 Valiant, the dash harness was so hacked that I rebuilt it. I changed to a 1965 bulkhead connector since those have large buss-bar feed-thrus for the ALT & BATT wires (only year exc. 1963, had to cut opening 1/8" taller). I bought a 1965 Fury harness (~$30 ebay). I moved my good wires to that bulkhead, cleaning all female terminals, and repaired booger'ed wires. I totally rewired the engine bay in all 3 of my 1960's Mopars, using a Jeep fuse/relay box. I got rid of the factory horn & starter relays for the Bosch type in the box, plus relay'ed the headlamps, ignition, fuel pump (added EFI) and such. I ran smaller ribbon-cable for most circuits from the bulkhead to relay box. I also added a shunt diode to bypass high currents around the dash ammeter, plus added fuses to all circuits.
 
It is an approachable problem In my 1964 Valiant, the dash harness was so hacked that I rebuilt it. I changed to a 1965 bulkhead connector since those have large buss-bar feed-thrus for the ALT & BATT wires (only year exc. 1963, had to cut opening 1/8" taller). I bought a 1965 Fury harness (~$30 ebay). I moved my good wires to that bulkhead, cleaning all female terminals, and repaired booger'ed wires. I totally rewired the engine bay in all 3 of my 1960's Mopars, using a Jeep fuse/relay box. I got rid of the factory horn & starter relays for the Bosch type in the box, plus relay'ed the headlamps, ignition, fuel pump (added EFI) and such. I ran smaller ribbon-cable for most circuits from the bulkhead to relay box. I also added a shunt diode to bypass high currents around the dash ammeter, plus added fuses to all circuits.
Well at least you'll have bright lights.
 
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