Need help on selecting stall torque converter

First off, sorry about the run-on post. Looking for advise. I found several threads online about stall converters. In the several old Mopars I have had over the years I have always had stock factory converters, they were never run on the track. I have a 1966 Barracuda. Not going to be a racer, just drive to work couple days a week but want good take-off to show off once in awhile . Bought a 340 ten years ago finally finishing up to install (has the X-heads). Guy I bought it from guy who said it dyno'd at 400 HP (who knows). My buddy just got it setup on run stand and ran for 1st time yesterday. He texted me "uhhhh...gonna need a stall converter, this thing sounds really crisp and has a healthy cam" Thats where I am at. He suggested a 10" 2800-3000 stall converter. Thru surfing the internet all day today found a lot of info. Looks like you dont want the converter to have stall speed higher than cruising speed (I used an online calculater and 65 mph). The results were 2,786 rpm @65mph. The info I found says if the stall rpm is higher than cruising rpm, it will generate heat and can damage transmission (904A). I am looking for suggestions on what converter/stall speed to get. Also wondering if this info is correct or way off base? Thanks in advance- Claude

Following. Have a 71 340 in my 65 Dart with stock 65 converter. I believe it’s an 1800.

I am not going to get into the upcoming pissin match, so I'll just say this. The converter is the single most important part in an automatic equipped street or race car. It does not matter which, they are both affected equally and IMO it is more important to get the street car closer to "just right". So here is my single bit of advice. Do NOT skimp on price and speak with a known GOOD converter company and buy a custom converter for YOUR car. If you do not spend at leas $400 on a converter, you are not getting a good one. I'll just stop "right there".

The advice you are about to be told is...

1. over the counter = junk/not very good/ hit it miss on quality and working properly.

2. Call converter companies ptc, dynamic, (forget the others)

3. Converters make or break the whole setup

I cant find much info on over the counter converters (I've looked at hughes 2500 stall). As most threads turn to call converter company, answer their questions and buy what they advise.

Good luck!

Edit- I am in the same boat. My transmission is probably next on the list of up grading my car. I would love a custom converter but my wallet is not 1k converter capable. I think it was Dynamic that you can get a converter for like 500 shipped to you that is supposed to be really good. I called the new hampshire place that will probably be dropped in here and they were like 750 shipped when I called asking about a converter.

to pick a converter you'll need to know the details of whats in that motor. just throwing a 2800-3k converter in could work ok but may not without knowing exactly what you have.

you'll hear that a converter will make or break your combo for a reason. the reason is because its true. its just hard to explain on how much a good converter that matches your combo and intended use helps. you'll also hear that getting a custom one from a good company like stated dynamic,ultimate or ptc is a great way to go. again thats for a very good reason. to do that you'll need to know whats in that engine. you'll also have to be honest about the rest of the combo and the intended use. as far as over the counter converters go there are good ones out there but again you'll need to know more about your engine then it sounds lumpy..

years ago the rule of thumb was nothing over 3k stall on the street because they would slip and generate too much heat. that has pretty much gone out the window over the years as converter technology has improved. a good converter is super efficient these days. they can be really loose but also drive around like a stock converter on the street. like i said its hard to explain unless you have seen the difference for yourself..

bottom line is that yes a converter will make or break your combo, yes you can get a good off the shelf one that works well, yes you can get a custom one built to your combo and intended use but either way you need to know what is inside that motor. you'll also have to be 100% honest with yourself and the converter company about your entire combo and intended use.

in our dart i have a mild 360. 10ish to1 compression a cam a couple steps over a stock 340 cam (don't remember the specs. would have to look at the card again)904 trans and a 3.23 gear. i told dynamic everything i have in the engine, weight of the car (approximate) what trans and what gear i was going t run. i also made sure they knew the car was going to be on the street 100% of the time. if it sees the track once in three years it would be a lot. they built a 9.5" converter that will flash to about 3500 rpm but feels like a stock converter on the street. its really amazing how well that thing works...

Dany and I just put our first "stall" converter in our '66 Cuda.
After having all the questions you have, and understanding how important it is I called Turbo Action and they built us one.
They will want to know EVERYTHING about your vehicle.
and it intended use.
Like with a cam choice, be brutally honest with them (and yourself).
In our case, a bracket car mostly but, drives an hour one way on the interstate at 70mph to the track.
We were shocked at how much harder it launched at WOT, yet driving around town or on the interstate at part throttle it seems totally stock!!
Might be right up there with cam choice as far as HP per dollar.
( it was $600 and a 2 week wait BTW)

I run a Turbo Action 10" S800 and I'm happy.
Call them up and you won't be disappointed.

If you like to read, look up Hughes Performance home page.Look at "What is Torque Converter Stall ? " It may shed some light on what to look for in picking out the converter/engine/car combo.

stole this from another site... its more race oriented but does explain how the same converter will act different in different engines..

either way yo go (off the shelf or custom to your combo) you'll need to talk to a converter company to get the proper one.

again you need to be 100% honest with what your entire combo is and your intended use.


"Don't Stall Around
By Paul Forte

How many times have you heard, "that guy has a 5000 stall converter or", "that guy runs a 5500 stall converter". Somewhere along the way in our industry we mistakenly labeled torque converters by a stall speed figure. At that time, during the seventies, the industry was trying to emphasize the fact that the new small type converters, 10", 9" & 8" gave much higher stall speed than the original equipment converter that came in the car. This misunderstanding has mushroomed and we now spend much time on the phone trying to explain (to someone with limited knowledge of torque converters) that we cannot sell him a 5000 or 5500 rpm stall converter, because in fact there never was one as they understand it. People who ask for 5000 stall converters expect that when they put it in their car they will be able to put the car in low gear, apply their foot on the brake and bring the engine up to 5000 rpm, and then let it go as the light turns green. This is not how a high stall conventional torque converter works. They actually work on a torque applied basis. Let's set a simplified example by using a Turbo Action #17508M-38 torque converter, which is an 8" Opel type converter made to fit a Chrysler "727' transmission. If we took this converter and bolted it behind a stock 360 cu. in. Dodge engine, it would produce a stall speed in low gear, with a good set of brakes and adequate weight on the rear wheels of approximately 2500 rpm. If you were to nail the throttle to the floor when the light turns green on the Christmas tree, you would get approximately 3700-4500 rpm flash stall speed. These stall figures vary as shown) due to a variation in horsepower levels of various 360 cu. in. engines. Now lets put a stock 440 cu. in. engine in front of this same converter and with the car in low gear, a good set of brakes and adequate weight on the rear wheels the stall speed would be approximately 3000-3800 rpm. Nailing it from the Christmas tree, approximately 4800-5200 rpm flash stall. Why the difference? Torque! Torque applied from the two engines is much different. A 1974 Dodge 360 cu. in. 4 barrel produces 285 ft. Ibs. @ 2400, a 1974 Dodge low horsepower 440 cu. in. 4 barrel produces 350 ft. Ibs. @ 2400. The torque converter actually sees 65 ft. Ibs. more torque at 2400 rpm from the 440 than the 360. This means that the 440 has more power to cause the torque converter internally to slip. This explains why various engines produce more or less stall speed, but another factor why we cannot hold the brakes and bring up the stall to 5000 rpm is that the first gear in the transmission provides enough mechanical advantage to overcome the brake system and tries to turn the wheels. Contact Turbo Action if you desire to get a fairly accurate stall speed reading. You say engines determine stall speed, is it true then that you can change the stall speed of a converter? Yes, torque converter manufacturers can change the stall speed but only within the limits of the engine that it is used with. Such as a 360 cu. in. could be varied approximately 1000 rpm with internal changes in our #17508 converter. A 440 could be varied about 1500 rpm with internal changes in our #17508. A word of caution. The higher the stall, the greater the slippage in high gear. This could mean slower E.T's so when ordering a converter, let the manufacturer try to help you choose the right converter for your application."

Excellent article Joe, and having worked in the industry, I couldn't agree with you more. Nice to see it mentions the lack of holding power on the brakes at times. Many forget that point.
I totally understand the writers concern about price. However, virtually every low priced converter I've seen cut open only proved the point " you only get what you pay for". Like you're saying and what others on the board have stated in the past, purchase only from a converter builder. While the parts stores/performance shops can sell you a converter, only someone in the industry has the hands on experience to get you what is required for your application. Just because the whiz-bang 10" converter works well in my Duster doesn't mean a thing unless your car is identical to mine in every way. Another point is any information must be as accurate as possible. B.S. the builder about how much horse power/torque your engine is making unless you've got a dyno sheet to back it up, and your PC dyno sheet is worthless, you're not going to get what is need for setup.
Thanks for the posting Joe.

Price?!
I just layed out $795 for a 3200 stall from A&A Transmission. .....it was what he recommended after severe questioning about my car etc.....
I'll let ya'll know how I like it shortly. ..if it EVER stops raining here!

Jeff

2 questions for the experts.
#1 Does the power range of the engine (cam rpm characteristics) have a lot to do with the stall rpm?
#2 Is the final drive ratio and highway cruise rpm also important?

mderoy340 said:

I run a Turbo Action 10" S800 and I'm happy.
Call them up and you won't be disappointed.

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Thats what ours is.
A "tight" with a Magnum snout.

toolmanmike said:

2 questions for the experts.
#1 Does the power range of the engine (cam rpm characteristics) have a lot to do with the stall rpm?
#2 Is the final drive ratio and highway cruise rpm also important?

Click to expand...

Yes and Yes.
To give you an idea how different our S800T is to a stock converter (it's my first)
It flash stalls to about 4100/4200 RPM. The trans is programmed to shift at 5K RPM.
When it hits about 4100 RPM in high gear the RPM stays Steady and the speed continues to rise!!
If you floor it at interstate speeds it jumps up to stall so fast it feels like it downshifted, but it didn't.
Truly amazing and well worth the extra $$$
Now if the track would just open!!!

toolmanmike said:

2 questions for the experts.
#1 Does the power range of the engine (cam rpm characteristics) have a lot to do with the stall rpm?
#2 Is the final drive ratio and highway cruise rpm also important?

Click to expand...

yes and yes...

final drive and cruise rpm goes into intended use. when i ordered mine i told them its mainly a street car and i want it on the tighter side. they receipt even says it. could my combo use a looser converter? most likely if i was going to race it more then i drive it. everything is a compromise though. have it built to what you are doing most and you'll be hapier..

abodyjoe said:

yes and yes...

final drive and cruise rpm goes into intended use. when i ordered mine i told them its mainly a street car and i want it on the tighter side. they receipt even says it. could my combo use a looser converter? most likely if i was going to race it more then i drive it. everything is a compromise though. have it built to what you are doing most and you'll be hapier..

Click to expand...

Thanks
You don't want it slipping when cruising at 60 down the highway. I hear it builds heat. Not good for the trans or converter.

Can see the Info he took on the receipt and where it says street driven and "wants tight". Told him I want to do long highway cruising.

toolmanmike said:

Thanks
You don't want it slipping when cruising at 60 down the highway. I hear it builds heat. Not good for the trans or converter.

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right. but remember the new converters are very efficient. lots of positive pitch on the vains which makes it tight at speed. you still want it designed for your use though in the end if that makes sense.

there was a real good article in mopar enthusiast magazine years ago that a friend wrote about them. i know i saved it bet can't find the damn thing. it explained the new technology so much better then i ever could...

Call Frank Lupo.

abodyjoe said:

right. but remember the new converters are very efficient. lots of positive pitch on the vains which makes it tight at speed. you still want it designed for your use though in the end if that makes sense.

there was a real good article in mopar enthusiast magazine years ago that a friend wrote about them. i know i saved it bet can't find the damn thing. it explained the new technology so much better then i ever could...

Click to expand...

I have some basics nailed down about converters but I just want to make sure and to ask the questions that others need to know. I have Precision of New Hampton just a short drive north. They are one of the largest rebuilders in the business. THey are experts but I don't know about their knowledge when it comes to choosing a performance unit. I think they build a lot of the shelf units that all the companies handle. I could probably be a dealer for them here but I don't want to go back to work. I'm retired! LOL Precision of New Hampton | Torque Converters, Transmission

WORK ? What's that ?

I just had a 9.5” rebuild by Dynamic. They tighten it up quite a bit to make it more streetable and handle the big block tourqe. They also updated the bearings and sprag. I just drove the car yesterday since the change and it seems much better. Give them a call, Shane is the phone tech guy, Frank is busy building stuff. Price was less than I expected and once they got to it i had it back in a few days.
Another option would be to put a new cam in that motor. Then you’ll know exactly what you have. If you don’t have a number or cam card it’s a guessing game.

gm1236 said:

I just had a 9.5” rebuild by Dynamic. They tighten it up quite a bit to make it more streetable and handle the big block tourqe. They also updated the bearings and sprag. I just drove the car yesterday since the change and it seems much better. Give them a call, Shane is the phone tech guy, Frank is busy building stuff. Price was less than I expected and once they got to it i had it back in a few days.
Another option would be to put a new cam in that motor. Then you’ll know exactly what you have. If you don’t have a number or cam card it’s a guessing game.

Click to expand...

Since the motor is already out of the car it wouldn't be too much work to find out what you have for a camshaft. Get a degree wheel and a length of all thread with 2 nuts that fits your crankshaft. long enough to position the degree wheel ahead of water pump etc. Use the two nuts to secure the wheel. Fab a pointer. Find tdc. Pull one valve cover and rocker shaft assy. Mount dial indicator to the end of the pushrod and record valve events for intake then exhaust while turning motor over by hand. Make your own cam card.

Yes, call Frank Lupo, but have all of your information in hand. Rear gear ratio, tire size, cam specs, compression ratio, everything you can think of.

now, on a related note, I bought a TCI “Streetfighter” converter out of my buddies estate auction for $20, so I figured it wouldn’t be a loss if I never used it. It had a stall rating of 2800 if I remember correctly. I ended up putting it in my GTX, and boy did it wake that car up. No figuring, just threw it in there in place of the stock unit. I got lucky, but that’s the chance of buying a converter that hasn’t been matched to your combo. You may not get so lucky.